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Old 08-24-2022, 09:45 PM   #1
jola1925
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Default Batteries not charging

We just purchased a 2012 2027(QB). It came with 2 6v batteries, but they don't seem to hold a charge.
I have driven for at least 6 hrs, plugged it into my garage (30amp outlet) for at least 36 hrs & if I unplug from the house nothing electrical works, except for the jack.

The switch that shows how much battery, shows nothing. I don't understand electrical but I'm thinking I should take the batteries to be charged & see how long they last.

I'm including a picture of the batteries.

I also have a few questions , if anyone can answer.

1) Will a multimeter help see battery health?

2) should I consider a home charger, (Genius5)?

3) does anyone ever install LiFe batteries & not install solar? With maybe an eye towards future solar...my good eye too.

Thanks, jola
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:37 AM   #2
Bill
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Couple questions about your picture.

On the battery on the right, there is a heavy black wire attached to the positive (+) terminal. This is correct - it is the main battery feed to the electrical systems in the TM. This same heavy black wire has a piece of masking tape on it. What is this tape?

There is also a smaller terminal, red jacket, that seems to be attached to nothing. That is suspicious.

In the same area, there is also a smaller black wire, tucked down into the battery box. What is this? Given the unconnected terminal, this is doubly suspicious. Can you follow this wire at all?

On the negative terminal of the same battery, there is a wire that seems to be wrapped in masking tape. What is inside the tape? That is also suspicious.

Near the other end of this same wire, there is a barely visible red sleeve. What is this?

All of this suggests that at some time there was a device connected to the battery. Since it is no longer there, we don't know what it was, or how it was connected. But the fact that it was connected to only one battery (the one on the right) concerns me.

Finally, have you removed the battery caps and checked the fluid level in the batteries? The top of the plates should not be exposed. If they are, you may add DISTILLED water until they are covered. Depending on whether the batteries are badly damaged, this may help.

Let us know what you find.

Bill
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:45 AM   #3
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As I look closer, there's wire on the right side that may have come off the empty red terminal Bill mentioned. Have you tried to reconnect that? I just barely caught it. By that way, the pictures help, thank you for including them with the problem.
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jola1925 View Post
Hello, I have a similar issue. We just purchased a 2012 2027(QB). It came with 2 6v batteries, but they don't seem to hold a charge.
I have driven for at least 6 hrs, plugged it into my garage (30amp outlet) for at least 36 hrs & if I unplug from the house nothing electrical works, except for the jack.
If the jack works when you are not plugged into house power, the batteries are holding a charge.

Quote:
The switch that shows how much battery, shows nothing. I don't understand electrical but I'm thinking I should take the batteries to be charged & see how long they last.
If the batteries are holding enough charge to run the jack, then I see no purpose in taking them away to be charged.

Quote:
I also have a few questions , if anyone can answer.

1) Will a multimeter help see battery health?

2) should I consider a home charger, (Genius5)?
1) Yes. You don't need anything expensive. Mostly you would like to be able to measure the voltage on each battery.

2) One of the NOCO chargers wouldn't be a bad idea, but they get expensive in a hurry. I think we should figure out what the problem is first. It seems to me like the batteries are simply not connected to the TM electrical system other than the jack. That probably means that a fuse somewhere is blown, and you need to find it. In your picture, I don't see the main battery fuse that should be in that big black wire. Is it hidden somewhere in the picture?

Incidentally, the 3-19 and 4-19 stickers on the batteries tells you when they were manufactured. Your batteries are 13 years old. Batteries almost never last anywhere near that long - 4-5 years is about it, often less in an RV with electrical problems. So your batteries may have simply died of old age.

Can you tell us the manufacturer of the converter box that handles all the power? In a 2720, it is located behind the brown grille, near the floor, on the outside wall of the bathroom.

Bill
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Old 08-25-2022, 09:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidkraz View Post
As I look closer, there's wire on the right side that may have come off the empty red terminal Bill mentioned. Have you tried to reconnect that?
Kidkraz -

Good eyesight! I missed that wire. It is red, with frayed copper conductors coming out of the end, and more of the ever-present masking tape. Is the missing main fuse holder hanging off the other end of it? It is possible that the main fuse blew at some point, the previous owner simply clipped it out and connected the cut end to the battery positive terminal. And then, whatever caused the main fuse to blow simply caused another fuse, farther downstream in the converter, to blow.

I'm a little nervous about simply connecting this unknown red wire to the unknown red terminal, but I'm not sure I have any better ideas.

Bill
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Old 08-25-2022, 09:47 AM   #6
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Bill, enlarging it to 300% is how I caught it. I'd install a fuse there, and then see if it gets blown or holds. Bill, would you use a circuit breaker type for this trouble shooting? I prefer the one and done blade fuses. Folks have a tendency to keep resetting, but to troubleshoot an electrical issue it's good for a temporary time.
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Old 08-25-2022, 09:58 AM   #7
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Kidkraz, I agree with you. A self-resetting circuit breaker is handy for occasional unintentional intermittent problems, but they are a real pain for troubleshooting, primarily because of the time lags involved, and the difficulty in seeing if it has actually popped, and if it has reset. And manually-resettable devices are a way of hoping that a magic solution will happen, without really finding and fixing the problem. As you suggested, I find one-and-done blade fuses to be a much better troubleshooting tool. They are cheap, so you can buy a handful at 10 cents each, and know immediately what is going on.

FWIW, you can buy a manually-resettable circuit breaker that will plug into an ATC fuseholder. For $3 each, they would be a good device for normal use. But if you reset it once and it blows again, you need to switch to troubleshooting mode. For that, I'm with you - gimme a fuse.

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Old 08-25-2022, 05:14 PM   #8
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Default No power from batteries: follow up

Quote:
Originally Posted by jola1925 View Post
We just purchased a 2012 2027(QB). It came with 2 6v batteries, but they don't seem to hold a charge.
I have driven for at least 6 hrs, plugged it into my garage (30amp outlet) for at least 36 hrs & if I unplug from the house nothing electrical works, except for the jack.

The switch that shows how much battery, shows nothing. I don't understand electrical but I'm thinking I should take the batteries to be charged & see how long they last.

I'm including a picture of the batteries.

I also have a few questions , if anyone can answer.

1) Will a multimeter help see battery health?

2) should I consider a home charger, (Genius5)?

3) does anyone ever install LiFe batteries & not install solar? With maybe an eye towards future solar...my good eye too.

Thanks, jola
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Kidkraz, I agree with you. A self-resetting circuit breaker is handy for occasional unintentional intermittent problems, but they are a real pain for troubleshooting, primarily because of the time lags involved, and the difficulty in seeing if it has actually popped, and if it has reset. And manually-resettable devices are a way of hoping that a magic solution will happen, without really finding and fixing the problem. As you suggested, I find one-and-done blade fuses to be a much better troubleshooting tool. They are cheap, so you can buy a handful at 10 cents each, and know immediately what is going on.

FWIW, you can buy a manually-resettable circuit breaker that will plug into an ATC fuseholder. For $3 each, they would be a good device for normal use. But if you reset it once and it blows again, you need to switch to troubleshooting mode. For that, I'm with you - gimme a fuse.

Bill
Hello, I'm not clear on how to respond to everyone that is helping, sorry.

Thanks for the replies & help. Here are some close-ups, & I see that the red wire that is attached with the black seems to have broken loose - if I understand this connection correctly.
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Old 08-25-2022, 07:55 PM   #9
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Yes, the black plastic thing with the two red wires looks kinda like an automotive ATC fuseholder, though there doesn't seem to be a fuse in it (it should have a 30-amp fuse in it). And the short frazzled red wire coming out of it looks like it pulled out of the red-sleeved connector on the battery positive post, as Kidkraz suggested. In addition, the other red wire is spliced into a black wire, which is probably the main 12-volt electrical feed into the TM. If that is true, then the heavy black wire that connects to the battery positive post through the yellow-sleeve connector is probably not the main feed, but was added by a previous owner to bring power to the jack - which you said works.

The picture is coming clearer. At this point, I think I would put a 30-amp fuse in the fuseholder, and then follow Kidkraz' suggestion to connect the short frazzled red wire to the empty red connector. This ought to bring power into the entire TM, though it will be weak because the batteries haven't been charged.

Try it - let us know.

Bill
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:10 PM   #10
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Thank you for your help, I will do try this or find someone who can. I'm a bit nervous about doing electrical work, but I may have a go at it.

Thanks again, to you, Kidkraz and anyone else who comments.

This forum is a great resource.
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