Advice on adding 110 outlet

**B_and_D** · 12-01-2003, 09:31 PM

We'd like to add a 110v outlet somewhere around the rear bed in our 1997 2720. This would be for a TV and fan that is located next to the bathroom wall. We used the bathroom outlet and an extension cord this last trip, but it got in the way.

Anyone have experience with this?

We have 3 inside outlets, one in the bathroom, one by the frig, and one by the stove. We use the one by the frig and the stove mostly. Are all of these outlets on the same "breaker"?

12-02-2003, 12:29 AM

an outlet in the back is a great idea.. hopefully it is an easy modification...

**Carol** · 12-02-2003, 07:53 AM

Hi,

Yes, all 110 outlets, including the outside ones, are on the same breaker. We found this out the hard way when running heaters inside and plugging the electric charcoal starter in outside. We had to figure out how to restore power in a hurry! The breaker switch was very hard to operate, once we figured out which one it was. There really should be 2 circuits for the 110 outlets, instead of just the one. After that experience, we started running a separate electrical cord (under the velcro) to the campsite's separate breaker for 110 power for an electric heater. Especially when we were running 2 heaters at once, as we managed to pop the breaker another time when both heaters cycled on at the same time. Our little microwave (500 watts) is also a large consumer of power, so we had to watch that we didn't have a heater running while microwaving something.

Carol

**mjlaupp** · 12-02-2003, 08:27 AM

All of the accessable outlets both inside and out are on the same ground fault circuit breaker. There is one other 110v outlet behind the outside lower fridge vent, used for the 110 fridge power, that is not on a ground fault breaker. A ground fault protected circuit is necessary for all plugged in appliances since the whole trailer is a metal box. It will prevent electrocution in case of a wiring defect in the appliance. If you are running an appliance using an extension cord from the other park supplied outlet, you should purchase and use a ground fault extension cord or cord adapter for your own protection.

I don't see any way to install an outlet in the area behind the bath wall. Everything folds, bends or slides in that area with no wasted space. Even if you could figure out a way to mount an outlet, the wiring to it would be subjected to excessive flexing and rubbing and woud soon fail. I would recommend one of the extension cords with a flat plug. use the bath 110v outlet and tuck the cord into the upper and lower shell seals behind the potty and shower.

MJL

RockyMtnRay · 12-02-2003, 09:45 AM

[quote author=Mike Laupp link=board=19;threadid=1558;start=msg11016#msg1101 6 date=1070378836]
All of the accessable outlets both inside and out are on the same ground fault circuit breaker. There is one other 110v outlet behind the outside lower fridge vent, used for the 110 fridge power, that is not on a ground fault breaker. A ground fault protected circuit is necessary for all plugged in appliances since the whole trailer is a metal box. It will prevent electrocution in case of a wiring defect in the appliance. If you are running an appliance using an extension cord from the other park supplied outlet, you should purchase and use a ground fault extension cord or cord adapter for your own protection.

I don't see any way to install an outlet in the area behind the bath wall. Everything folds, bends or slides in that area with no wasted space. Even if you could figure out a way to mount an outlet, the wiring to it would be subjected to excessive flexing and rubbing and woud soon fail. I would recommend one of the extension cords with a flat plug. use the bath 110v outlet and tuck the cord into the upper and lower shell seals behind the potty and shower.

MJL
[/quote]
I'm totally with Mike. Adding an additional 110 V outlet for the rear bed area is nigh on impossible. An outlet requires a sturdy mounting surface so there's no flex when cords are plugged into it/ pulled out. It also requires a roughly 3 inch deep box (4 X 2 in length/width) to house the connections to the outlet itself. This box must be kept absolutely dry on the inside, particularly when hooked to a GFI circuit breaker. The electrical cable to the box should not be flexed, nor should it be exposed to sunlight because of UV degradation of the insulator. If you look closely, you'll see the TM did all their outlet mountings inside cabinets where there's a solid structure, protection from water, and fixed routing for the conduit. The most rearward such cabinet is the one in the bath.

Basically there's no way to do this internally in the rear of the trailer. It **could** be done by cutting a hole in the side of the trailer and mounting the box mostly outside the wall of the upper rear shell. However, ensuring the box is...and remains...100% watertight (so the GFI doesn't trip) would be a major and continuing challenge. Even a slight amount of dampness inside this box would trip the ONLY circuit breaker and take down all of your TMs 110V outlets. Also because the box would stick out about two inches from the rear shell wall (which is only an inch thick), it would have to be mounted sufficiently rearward to not interfere with the forward shell when the trailer is folded. Then you'd have to run conduit down the shell's wall, along the lower edge of the shell and then down the rear arm to get under the trailer. From there it would have to go back up into the trailer to connect to the circuit breaker in the converter assembly. This conduit would have to be special cable to withstand being repeatedly twisted/flexed as the rear shell is raised and lowered. It would also have to be very UV resistant.

All in all, a very significant undertaking requiring careful research into how to engineer box attachment strength & watertightness and getting exactly the right kind of cable (ordinary conduit...or extension cord cable...will definitely not suffice). And it would result in an unattractive cable & box being stuck on the side of your trailer.

**B_and_D** · 12-02-2003, 12:25 PM

We have the TV (5 " b & w) set up on an over-the-door (hangs on the outside of the rear wall of the bathroom) "wire dryer" thing I bought from Bed Bath & Beyond. The fan sits on that too. Used the fan to circulate the air as we were getting a lot of condensation in the rear bed area. I put a splitter on the main cable and ran it outside and then between the rear bed & the wall.

Look at this link: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97246227ZpgmxX

that azroadrunner posted. It looks like there is an outlet right under the rear bed. There is something white there...looks like something is plugged in? That's where I was thinking of putting the extra outlet.

PS - azroadrunner, hope this is OK to link to your site - if not please let me know & I'll change it :-*

RockyMtnRay · 12-02-2003, 12:57 PM

[quote author=B_and_D link=board=19;threadid=1558;start=msg11019#msg1101 9 date=1070393123]

Look at this link: http://community.webshots.com/photo/...97246227ZpgmxX

that azroadrunner posted. It looks like there is an outlet right under the rear bed. There is something white there...looks like something is plugged in? That's where I was thinking of putting the extra outlet.
[/quote]

Ah...now that might work. My recollection of the rear wall of my 2720 was the storage door came almost to the edge of the bathroom wall and there would be no room for an outlet. But if there is indeed a couple of inches to work with between the door and the wall, then an electrical box could be installed through the back wall into the storage area with the conduit going into the adjacent battery compartment, thence into the converter compartment. You would need to pull out the converter first (not a simple task) to get room to work behind it. Hooking the cable into the existing 110V conduit coming off the back of the converter should be done verrrry carefully.

**B_and_D** · 12-02-2003, 08:26 PM

After reading all of the above and about the GFI circuit, it does seem advisable to connect into that instead of the other circuits that go to the a/c and to the frig.

What we are now thinking is to put a junction box inside the bathroom cabinet next to the bathroom outlet and run a new romex wire to the new outlet under the rear bed and to the bathroom outlet out of that new box.

Checked out the wiring from the inside last night, but didn't check under the trailer to see what's under there. It looks like it goes under the floor, but it was too cold and wet to check it out last night.

Another fun project! We did the wheel well modification before we went camping last week. It came out pretty good, but the foam was still oozing out while we were driving the next day!

RockyMtnRay · 12-02-2003, 09:14 PM

[quote author=B_and_D link=board=19;threadid=1558;start=msg11024#msg1102 4 date=1070421990]
After reading all of the above and about the GFI circuit, it does seem advisable to connect into that instead of the other circuits that go to the a/c and to the frig.

What we are now thinking is to put a junction box inside the bathroom cabinet next to the bathroom outlet and run a new romex wire to the new outlet under the rear bed and to the bathroom outlet out of that new box.

Checked out the wiring from the inside last night, but didn't check under the trailer to see what's under there. It looks like it goes under the floor, but it was too cold and wet to check it out last night.

Another fun project! We did the wheel well modification before we went camping last week. It came out pretty good, but the foam was still oozing out while we were driving the next day!

[/quote]

Hooking into the existing conduit under the bathroom vanity instead of messing with the backside of the converter is a viable approach.

I was under my TM (also a 2720, though the SL model) twice last summer...once to run the cable from my solar panels back to the battery compartment and once to run a cable from the battery compartment forward to the tongue for an electric tongue jack. IIRC, most of TM's wiring is above the floor and inside the the cabinetry on the street side...starting with the refer compartment in the front and going back to the bathroom cabinet. It looked as if they tunnelled the wiring to the curb side outlet(s) through the floor (there's a screwed on panel very near the axle).

However, even if TM didn't run their conduit under the floor, there's no reason you can't...I certainly did...twice. I recommend doing as I did and getting a lot of cable clamps and screwing them into the bottom of the floor about every 12 inches or so...that will keep your conduit firmly attached to the bottom of the trailer. Since you're going to be staying on the street side, you could also attach the conduit to the frame (I had to go across the trailer for my cabling so couldn't stay with the frame).

Depending on how thick your cable is, you may not have to drill up through the battery compartment floor...there's an existing tube/hole there for the ground wire from the battery. If you do drill, be verrrry careful so you don't inadvertently drill into the bottom of the battery like one of our members did (Bill, IIRC). Also be sure you grommet/shield the cable where it goes through the bottom & top aluminum layers of the floor.

Once you're into the battery compartment, going sideways into the storage compartment will be a no-brainer.

**mjlaupp** · 12-03-2003, 07:47 AM

[quote author=B_and_D link=board=19;threadid=1558;start=msg11024#msg1102 4 date=1070421990]
What we are now thinking is to put a junction box inside the bathroom cabinet next to the bathroom outlet and run a new romex wire to the new outlet under the rear bed and to the bathroom outlet out of that new box.[/quote]
You might look at splicing into the outlet near the stove. You could then run the new wire through the back side of the cabinets on the curb side and through the rear storage cabinet without going outside the shell or under the floor. I don't remember where the external 110v outlet is on the '97 TM. On my '03 2720SL, it is located behind the wheel on the curb side and is accessable inside the storage area under the wardrobe. It would be the ideal place the make the splice for the new wiring.
MJL