Another minivan story

I don't think we should try to scare people out of towing with an Astro Van or Safari Van in Colorado. I agree with Ray that if you are towing almost exclusively in the Rockies a larger tow vehicle would be a good idea. I took my TM3023 and Astro Van to Colorado last year and went over several high passes without any difficulty. True, on the 8% grades you drop down to 35-40 mph, but you are able to keep up with most of the other RV's and semi's.

I love Colorado and plan to go again this August and many years in the future with this combination.

I tow with a 5.3L V-8 Chevy Suburban with oil cooler and heavy duty tow package from the factory. On the way to the Dealer in texas I avg 18.9 MPG unloaded, on the way back with an EQUAL-I-ZER hitch with 1000 lb bars on a TM 3023, got 15.7 MPG on the way home towing thru the hill country of Texas.
This is my fifth tow unit from regular pop up to the new TM, and I hav always used a Suburban for towing, my last trailer was a 28 foot Rockwood, and never got over 10MPG avg.

I guess what I am trying to say is more is better, even if the TM's can be towed by vans etc, why not invest the extra in a rig big enough to tow more, and feel comfortable about knowing you have enough to do the job---- just my theory.

But it has worked for me. I have never broke down, towed thru the rockies up to 11000 feet. only problems I have had are flat tires. and I always carry two Spares for insurance.

Happy Camping to all, I love my TM!!!!!

I think Bill as always is right on the money. The trucks posted on the Edmund.com website are large gasoline models and most of us TM owners are somewhere in the middle. In the case of towing in the Rockies, it may be nice to have a Titan or a Ram. I for one was somewhat surprised that a Tundra does not do the job as easily for those high elevations. That's why I posted the site for those who are considering more towing capacity. There are also new midsized trucks (Frontier, Tacoma, Dodge Dakota) that are coming out shortly with larger engines and more towing capacity (anywhere from 5,500-7,500 lbs).

On the east coast here, my 5,000 lb. towing capacity Pathfinder (170 hp) has done just fine without a weight distribution or sway control. However, I am afraid of taking it to the Blue Ridge Mountains for example at this time. If anyone has any experience with inclines found like for where the TM is made (TN) or in the Blue Ridge Mountains with a similarly equipped TV, I would appreciate it.

So far, I have camped mostly saltwater destinations (Atlantic Ocean or Chesapeake Bay). But, we have beautiful mountains close to home as well. My plan was to go somewhere close to the mountains before taking it over to the Afton Mountain past Charlottsville on Interstate 64 which would be the highest and longest incline for me. To be perfectly safe, I have the option of borrowing my brother in law's Excursion Diesel. I have considered another tow vehicle, but I have decided that my Pathfinder is just fine for now. I dam very impressed with the new NissanTitan though and the prices have come way down I guess due to the high gas price.

[RockyMtnRay]

You folks are making some good points...my situation could almost be categorized as "extreme towing"...regular (like biweekly) trips over the very high Rockies. And my standards for what's "acceptable" towing performance are likely higher than most folk's as well...to me, it's not acceptable to be able to just do 35 mph. I want the ability to maintain the posted Interstate speed limit (60 to 65 mph) on a 7% grade at 11,000 feet with my TM in tow. One of the reasons is that several Interstates in Colorado have long stretches (like 12 continuous miles) of minimum left-lane speeds...if you can't hold at least 55 mph, then you must stay in the right lane. And being stuck in the right lane means being stuck behind the semis and lumbering RVs that are struggling to do 25 to 30 mph. That might be tolerable on a once-a-year (or once-in-a-lifetime) vacation but it's not at all tolerable to me on a 2 day getaway.

The stock Tundra actually did pretty well...I was always able to do at least 55 (though on a few grades just 55)...and I've yet to be passed by any other pickup/trailer rig! But that's just not enough for me...I want to be able to able to do better. The headers have already helped.... I'll know exactly how much next week when I make another run up I70. And I have another thousand or so dollars worth of "performance mods" planned before next summer. Sure, I could have bought one of the higher power pickups last fall...but unfortunately none of the other full-size pickups would fit in my rather short garage. Plus Toyota has an absolutely sterling reliability reputation...and the new King of the Hill (the Titan) hadn't even appeared yet and its reliability was a total unknown. So I'm going to make the most (literally) of what I've got and probably will wind up with almost a "super-truck". ;D

But I also see where you folks that don't do extreme towing are coming from...so, yeah, a 4.3L V6 would probably be adequate on most Colorado mountain roads for a once-a-year trip. In retrospect, I used to think the 4.0 L I6 in my Jeep was adequate too...until I realized that the regular/repeated strains I was putting it through were noticeably beginning to degrade the engine & transmission...and there were certain grades (and temperature conditions) I simply was very leery of towing on.

My husband and I are considering purchasing a trailmanor and would like to get the largest one possible as he will be spending two or three nights a week in it on a job location. We would like to get a trailer that we can tow with our 2003 Sienna XLE. Our plans include a trip out west next year. We also go to the Smokies regularly. Do any of you have advice or suggestions? Thanks.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by geebee

My husband and I are considering purchasing a trailmanor and would like to get the largest one possible as he will be spending two or three nights a week in it on a job location. We would like to get a trailer that we can tow with our 2003 Sienna XLE. Our plans include a trip out west next year. We also go to the Smokies regularly. Do any of you have advice or suggestions? Thanks.

Hate to disappoint but realistically your Sienna is not capable of towing any of the TM models. The Sienna's tow rating is a pretty paltry 3500 lbs with the tow package and a really limited 2000 lbs without it. Tow ratings are determined by subtracting the weight of a bare-bones, empty, no gas, 150 lb driver, no passenger, no cargo, no options vehicle from the Gross Combined Weight Rating. When you add in two adult passengers (~200 lbs extra weight), typical options (~300 lbs more weight), a tank of gas (~100 lbs more), and a reasonable load of cargo (~400 lbs)...which all add up to about 1000 lbs, your real tow ratings are 2500 lbs (with tow package) and only 1000 lbs without it.

The smallest TM (2619) has an empty weight of about 2700 lbs. By the time you add in the normal factory options (e.g. AC, even a spare tire is an optional piece of equipment) and load the trailer with a water/food/clothing/camping gear, the real world weight of a ready-to-go-camping 2619 is around 3300 lbs. That's a pretty huge 800 lbs over the maximum weight the loaded Sienna should be pulling. On flat, low elevation roads, the Sienna would be working pretty hard. Trying to pull that weight up a low altitude mountain grade (like in the Smoky Mtns) would really make the engine and transmission work hard...and would shorten their lives. Trying to pull that weight up the much steeper and much higher elevation grades of the Rockies or Sierra is just about an immediate death sentence for the transmission and/or engine.

IMO, a single person could live with decent comfort 2 to 3 days a week in 2720SL (models with the front slide living room really have a lot of living space...as compared to sleeping space)...and would be able to live quite comfortably in a 3124KS or 3326KS. However, an equipped and loaded 2720SL will weigh around 3800 lbs.

If you want a TM...and you want one large enough for living...and you want to tow it across the western mountains, you really need a tow vehicle with at least a 5500 to 6500 lb tow rating. In Toyotas, that means trading for a V8 4-Runner, or even better, a V8 Sequoia or Tundra.

If you want to keep the Sienna, you need to be thinking Coleman popup (smaller one) or maybe something like Aliner...but I don't thiink these are viable for multi-day living at a job site.

Thanks for your help. I really do love my Sienna and hoped to have the best of both worlds. I really hate buying a big gas-guzzler V8, but if we do buy a travel trailer, that is probably what we will have to do. I am still a bit puzzled as to how people are towing these trailers with Windstars and Odysseys. You get such mixed reviews. I do know that 3,500 is the max that can be towed under Toyota's guidelines. Anything above that would probably void the warranty. If we bought a bigger TT with slides and a much heavier weight, then I am not sure even a V8 Sequoia would pull it-- almost makes me want to look at motorhomes.

[G-V_Driver]

So then you can tow your Sienna behind the Motor home so you'll have something to drive when you get there?

I tow a 3023 with a Dodge Ram 1500 4WD (5.9L) and I too wonder about some of the tow vehicles people are reporting they use. This vehicle is rated at 7200# and to say that you wouldn't even know the TM was behind you seems like a gross overstatement. I DEFINITELY know this trailor is behind me.

A 3500# TM easily becomes a 5500# load by the time you throw in the kids, the dog, and all the things that people like to take with them when they go camping. It is a real juggling act trying to balance the GVWR, GTWR, GCWR, and hitch weight.

I would suggest that prospective TM buyers down-load a copy of this spread sheet and honestly evaluate their TV before purchasing their TM. It does a nice job of helping you estimate a balanced and safe setup: http://www.klenger.net/arctic-fox/we...monstrator.xls .

MaineMan

I hope this does not show up as a duplicate as my screen just went blank.
At our regional fall rally, some owners with Chrysler minvans noted problems with towing, particulary not being able use cruise control. We have put over 5000 towing miles with our TM 26-19 out of the 45000 we have on the Kia Sedona with no problems and the vast majority of that milage has been with the cruise control. Milage has been about 17mpg towing. We have towed through the mountains of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Tennessee, and Missouri as well as shorter trips in southern New England. We plan to head to Canada next year.
Jonathan S. Harger