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Old 12-08-2003, 08:41 AM   #1
grkman1
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Default Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

I Just purchased a 2003 VW Touareg V8 with the adjustable air suspension. This suspension has an automatic leveling control system also. The Touareg can tow approx 7700 pounds.

My question is, would anyone know if I would still need the weight distribution hitch on the Touareg as I needed with my Jeep Grand Cherokee? It would make life a bit easier not having to deal with the hitch bars.

Thanks
George
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Old 12-08-2003, 09:18 AM   #2
efelker
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

George:

There was a "raft" of discussion on the Edmund's Forum about the Touareg, and what's it's "real" tow capacity. Did you get it with the hitch? If so, check the label and see what class it is. There was a picture on one of the Edmund's posting showing it as a Class II not a Class III hitch. Also check your owners manual. Apparantly the "real" consideration for the TReg is not that 7700 lbs, but the fact that the tongue weight is limited to about 616 lbs. That's going to put you pretty close for a fully loaded TM even though the total capacity will be well under the 7700 lbs (like around 4000 to 4500). Finally, can a brake controller (like a Prodigy) be connected to the hitch wiring? Would not EVER want to tow a camper with electric brakes without a controller.

I was considering a TReg myself, but given I could not get any straight answers from VW on the real capacity for towing, I decided to pass. Sorry I can't provide you a whole lot of info, but since you bought one, I'd sure be interested in what your owner's manual says & what VW says about equipping it to tow an approximate 4000 lb camper.

Do you already own a TM?

EF
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Old 12-08-2003, 09:27 AM   #3
RockyMtnRay
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

[quote author=grkman1 link=board=20;threadid=1565;start=msg11059#msg1105 9 date=1070898105]
I Just purchased a 2003 VW Touareg V8 with the adjustable air suspension. This suspension has an automatic leveling control system also. The Touareg can tow approx 7700 pounds.

My question is, would anyone know if I would still need the weight distribution hitch on the Touareg as I needed with my Jeep Grand Cherokee? It would make life a bit easier not having to deal with the hitch bars.

Thanks
George
[/quote]

Yes, you definitely should use it...especially given the vagaries concerning the Touareg's maximum hitch weight. The Touareg is not that much different in wheelbase from the GC (both are around 110 inches)...and wheelbase has a lot to do with whether or not a trailer will tend to make the front of the tow vehicle light or not. And front lightness has a lot to do with steering effectivness. Furthermore, the Touareg's rear suspension is going to last a lot longer if some of your TM's hitch weight is transferred to the Touareg's front wheels.

My Tundra has a theoretical tow rating of 7200 lbs (halfway between the GC's and Touareg's)...and it has a substantially longer wheelbase (128 inches) than either of those SUVs. Nonetheless, I most certainly will be using a WD hitch with it next year.

Yes, a WDH is a bit of extra nuisance when hooking/unhooking but in my engineering-type mind, the advantages in suspension loading, steering effectiveness, and braking effectiveness on the tow vehicle greatly outweigh the nuisance factor. Since you already own a WDH, my strong recommendation is to use the bars and do the weight distribution properly.
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Old 12-08-2003, 09:52 AM   #4
efelker
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

George:

Got some more data off the VWVortex Forum for TRex. Here are two items that were posted.

1. I have the dealer installed hitch on a Touareg V8. It has a sticker limiting tongue weight to 616 pounds. Since tongue weight ought to be about 12% of the trailer weight, how can I safely haul 7700 pounds? The owners manual says the Treg is for Class I and II trailers only, Class II is 3500 pounds. The hitch ball is limited to 6 inches from the attachment pin...try finding an equalizer hitch with that short an arm. The Polack electric recepticle (7-way) has a wire to the pin usually used for an after-market electronic brake controller, but VW seems to have no idea where the other end of that wire is. Using the hitch recepticle, I have no brake lights. VW isn't sure why (maybe the installer missed this instruction? "Using 5051. Go to address 69 (trailer function). Go to 07 (control unit). Press 2 to reprogram modul for brake light function." VW customer service has been clueless on all of this, as have their dealers. I'd email 'em if their VW customer service site would recognize my VIN. Anyone know what to do about any of this?

2. QUOTE COPIED FROM INTERNAL MEMO sent to dealers on Sep 5, 2003:
All of the Touareg hitches that have been delivered to us have
> incorrect software loaded onto the control module/ "black box" (which is
> supplied with each hitch). This software causes warning lights to appear
> on the dashboard when the right turn signal is used, in conjunction with a
> 7 to 4 pole adapter. This problem has been diagnosed and a fix has been
> designed in the way of a software update. The incorrect module is part
> number 7L0 907 383 C. The incorrect modules can be easily "reflashed"
> using the VAG 5051 tool with the updated software CD. The correct
> software version is #8254. The update CD's and a Technical Bulletin will
> be sent to all dealers and QTM's as soon as we can get them duplicated and
> in the mail.
>
> Additionally, all hitches produced beginning week 36 (august 25) and
> later will have the correct control (7L0 907 383 E) modules packed in the
> hitch box. These hitches will not begin to arrive until late September.
> Until that time, all hitches installed MUST have the correct software
> flashed onto the control module. I will send another announcement as soon
> as the Technical Bulletin and CD's are on the way.

3. And finally, a copy of a VW TSB:


Extended Descriptions for Item V010307
Technical Bulletins
Group: 01
Number: 03-07
Date Published: 09/24/2003

Subject:
Volkswagen Technical Bulletin Update Programming (Flashing) Control Module for Towing Sensor (J345) to Accept 7-Pin to 4-Pin Adapter.

Model(s): Year(s):
Touareg with towing accessory package and control module Part number: 7L0907 383C. 2004

So it sounds like you need to be sure that your dealer has loaded the software patch or you'll get error messages.

Also, I'd agree with Ray about the WDH; but, I don't know if the T-Reg will even work with one. I don't think there is a ball mount that will fit the VW hitch that will allow attaching the arms. More importantly, I think the geometry & physics are all wrong for a WDH. The VW hitch is designed to basically REPLACE the existing stock bumper. It is mounted the same as the bumper (basically two plates on each side that have 4 bolts in each plate). The load from the hitch is applied in tension to the 8 bolts (that is, the force is applied as if you were pulling straight back on the heads of the bolt). You can see the plates in the image below. In most receiver installations, arms of the receiver run parallel to frame members and the force of the hitch would be applied at 90 degrees to the mount bolts. I just don't know how a WDH would transfer the load to the front axles of the T-Regg given the way the hitch is mounted. To my knowledge, the ball mount shown below is all that will work & you can see there is no way to hook up WDH arms. But I'm not an engineer, so I'll defer to those with far more technical knowledge.


But George, what does the owners manual say? Does it talk about WEIGHT CARRYING or WDH? There is a big diffderence.

This was the main reason I backed off the T-Regg. Could not find anyone at VW that could answer my towing hitch questions in a way that gave me confidence.


Ed

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Old 12-14-2003, 04:07 PM   #5
grkman1
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

Wow!!! all this info
I thank you for your imput. I have an appointment this week to install the hitch to the Touareg.

I called Trailmanor, asked for Jimmy Davis, and was told that Ed now has his position.....Ed said he felt since the truck had a automatic leveling system, that he didnt think I would need a WDH. thinking about this, the WDH distributes the weight of the vehicle so the back does not droop down, whereby less percentage of vehicle weight would be on the front wheels.

If the leveling system is functioning properly, and the rear of the truck lifts up, you would think that the weight would then shift towards the front of the vehicle, thus eliminating the need for a WDH.

Ed told me to try it and see how the vehicle handles, especially when an 18 wheeler passes by. I plan on doing this during the holidays for a short 3 hour trip.

Now as far as the brake controller, I appreciate your help with the computer. I will surely print this out and hand it over to the service tech when I bring my touareg in.

This is a great group...and I appreciate all your help. If there are any Touareg owners out there, join the Touareg club at
http://www.clubtouareg.com/

Thanks

George
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Old 12-14-2003, 09:00 PM   #6
RockyMtnRay
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 816
Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

[quote author=grkman1 link=board=20;threadid=1565;start=msg11095#msg1109 5 date=1071443250]
I called Trailmanor, asked for Jimmy Davis, and was told that Ed now has his position.....Ed said he felt since the truck had a automatic leveling system, that he didnt think I would need a WDH. thinking about this, the WDH distributes the weight of the vehicle so the back does not droop down, whereby less percentage of vehicle weight would be on the front wheels.

If the leveling system is functioning properly, and the rear of the truck lifts up, you would think that the weight would then shift towards the front of the vehicle, thus eliminating the need for a WDH.

Ed told me to try it and see how the vehicle handles, especially when an 18 wheeler passes by. I plan on doing this during the holidays for a short 3 hour trip.
[/quote]

George...

Lifting the rear of the T-Reg with the suspension system will only make it level. It won't cause any shift of weight to the front wheels. For that to happen, something (like a fluid or other moveable mass) in the T-Reg would have to slosh/roll/slide forward when the rear was brought up to the same height as the front. If the T-Reg was a big ol' water tank then this would happen....but it isn't. If you lift the rear of the T-reg, nothing significant will move weight wise...the rear end will still be carrying the same load though the rear suspension will now be stiffer and will ride a bit rougher. Merely lifting the rear does not change the location of the fulcrum nor the length of the leverage arms the trailer is acting on the tow vehicle through.

In terms of weight distributions, leverage-arms, wheelbase, etc., your T-Reg is not a whole lot different than your old GC. In fact, the GC might have had a slight advantage since its cast iron V8 probably loaded the front wheels a tad bit more than the T-Reg's smaller and mostly aluminum engine does.

From my experience with my Cherokee before I finally got the weight distribution correct, you aren't going to see much effect from passing semis. Where you will see the effect of a too light front end is when you try to do a panic or even fast stop...like at suddenly red traffic light...the front wheels will start skidding, the ABS will kick in (making lots of noise) and you are most likely not going to stop very well at all. On my very last trip...after I had picked up heavier duty hitch bars but had not yet installed them...I had to make a sudden stop from only 35 mph at a light that had gone red very fast (extremely short yellow). The TM was loaded heavily and the Cherokee didn't have ABS...I skidded partway into the intersection with the front tires screeching and slowly sliding toward a ditch. It was downright scary and I don't scare easily. After I got to my first campground, I switched out the bars and from then on stopping, even fast stopping, was uneventful. The bottom line is your margin of safety on that T-Reg w/out the WDH is awfully small if you have to make any emergency maneuver.

Sorry to be the bearer of unpleasant news given your very substantial financial investment in this new vehicle but I'd hate to see you blithely get into trouble here.
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Old 12-14-2003, 09:14 PM   #7
camperboy
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

I strongly suggest the WDH. Here's why.

The built in leveling system doesn't help to get the weight back onto the front wheels of the vehicle, but rather it simple levels the ride off. The lever point of the rear axel has not been changed, and weight will still be taken off the front axel. The geometry hasn't changed.

The way that I understand this myself is it visualize a board (TV), resting on sawhorses (placed as axels). Now one more horse and board for the TM. Put too much weigh on on extreme end of the "TV" board (tongue weight) and the other end lifts up. The spring bars push the tonque weight across the pivot points making the boards stable. One horse being slightly higher or lower than the other won't change things much. As you have seen most people here favor a WDH.

For what it's worth I notice the most effect of the lack of WDH with the TM during emergency braking. The fronts tend to plow and the anti-lock kick in. Take note of braking characteristics with and without the TM. See posts by RockyMtnRay for really in depth discussions on this with he Cherokee and TM.

I credit our WDH (Equalizer) with preventing a wrech this past summer. We were sharply cut off by another vehicle and only avoided a collision by panic braking and swerving sharply into the left (thankfully it was empty!) land. I think that without the WDH we'd have spun out as a result of too little traction of the front tires of the truck.

That said, let us know how it works out. And keep in mind that just because it feels OK without doesn't mean that it might not feel the next step to "great" with the WDH. Do you have the option of trying it both ways?

Just my 2 cents.
Camperboy
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Old 12-15-2003, 12:24 PM   #8
efelker
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

I agree with what everyone says about a WDH. Personally, I would not tow without one. I just think that you are going to find that there is no way to use one with the current receiver design for the Touareg. Ray is right, too. All jacking up the rear shocks with air is going to do is raise the back up, but you'll still have the hitch loaded exactly the way it was before pumping up the rear shocks. The important thing about the WDH as he points out is that the load is shifted (and shared) by the front and rear axle of the TV as well as the trailer. Air shocks will make things level, but a WDH levels by distributing the load better. Jacking up the rear shocks with air does not increase the load felt on the front axle, therby increasing the ability to steer & control the trailer. But I do believe that when the engineers at VW determined that the Tourareg could safely tow 7700 lbs, those loads were considered because they knew the vehicle would only be weight carrying not weight distributing. Given the weight of the loaded TM, there ought to be plenty of margin. (You just won't be able to find anyone at VW that can confirm it).

Also, when you go to the dealer be sure that you get the OEM hitch. That's pricey (about $800) but right now it is the only one that is rated at Class III. There's an after market variety -- lots cheaper (about $150) but its only a Class II... and a Class II is only rated at 3500 lbs.

Additionally, you are suppossed to get a letter from VWOA telling you what the REAL tow ratings and capacities are. Ask your VW dealer about it.

I hope by next model year (2005) they'll have all this worked out with the Touareg. It's a great car from what I can see, and I'd buy one in a minute if I had any confidence that ANYONE at VW or VWOA knows the real skinny on the hitch, brake controller, etc. From what I can see, they just aren't there yet.

Finally, I'd recommend you go to www.vwvortex.com and go to the forum on Touareg and search what owners say about towing, hitch, etc. Here is the link to take you right to the T-Regg forum: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=39. Everything I learned (gleaned) about this vehicle came from those forums -- but it was enough to convince me to hold off for another year.

EF
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Old 12-18-2003, 10:21 AM   #9
grkman1
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

Ed,

I picked up my 04 Touareg yesterday from VW after they installed the hitch. The dealership had no problem installing the brake controller. When i got home I immediately hooked it up to my TM to make sure that all the electricl wire was done correctly...brakes, signals, back up etc.

It seems just fine I plan on taking the TM out this weekend for a test drive to see what it feels like. The Service manager along with the technician who are all Certified VW specialist (at least that is what they said) toled me that I could use the WD hitch and I would not have a problem with warranty.

I shall see how it works out this weekend. Ill let you know

George
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Old 12-21-2003, 12:30 PM   #10
grkman1
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Default Re:Towing TM with VW Touareg V8

Just came back from a "test run" with my 2619 and my Touareg. It ran flawless. I didnt use the WD hitch as I said to see how it handles.

The touareg's Load leveling system immediatly adjusted the height and kept it level throughout my travel. With my Jeep when I would go over a dip in the road and the WD distribution hitch attached, I would get a bouncing, with the T-Reg nada. Stayed straight as it should.

I ran a battery of tests here, speeds up to 70+ miles, hard stops, 18 wheelers passing at 80 miles and hour and me passing them also. Everything went extremely well. The Truck felt very well controlled and very smooth. I didnt even realize it was attached.

I feel alot better now about mhy purchase.

have a great holiday

George
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