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Old 07-30-2004, 03:42 PM   #11
friscomike
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Default Re:Equal-i-zer Hitch

I think there is some "more is better" thinking going on here, and I'm not sure if that is right when it comes to weight distribution hitches.

Let's be realistic. The 2619, for example, has a listed tongue weight of 351 pounds (2720 slightly less). I think that it is probably safe to assume that propane bottles, a battery and the gear in front of the axle will not USUALLY be more than 249 pounds (especially when the weight taken off the tongue by the gear behind the axle is taken into consideration), though of course it COULD BE. I realize that. But I'll bet if you checked the tongue weight of 100 2619s, very few would be over 600 pounds. So if we believe that the tongue weight is likely to be at or below 600 pounds, why wouldn't we go with the 600 pound tongue weight hitch?

I was very torn between the 600 and 1,000 pound hitches myself, so I called Trail Manor. They recommended the 600 pound tongue weight hitch for the 2619, for all of the reasons I mentioned above. I also called Equal-i-zer, and they said that the 1,000 pound tongue weight hitch would probably do no harm, other than maybe a stiffer ride (which puts unnecessary stress on the trailer and tow vehicle frame), but that the 600 pound tongue weight hitch should be the first choice, because this type of application is what the 600 pound tongue weight hitch was designed for.

I initially thought that the 1,000 pound tongue weight hitch was the better choice, but I really think now that the 600 pound hitch is a better choice for the 2619, primarily because YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO DISTRIBUTE ABOUT 600 POUNDS OF TONGUE WEIGHT.

I know there are many opinions concerning this issue, this is just mine. I understand that both sizes would probably work fine, it's just nice to know which hitch works BEST.

Has anyone used both hitches on a Trail Manor? Which one felt better?
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Old 07-30-2004, 08:57 PM   #12
Denny_A
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Default Re:Equal-i-zer Hitch

[quote author=friscomike link=board=20;threadid=1180;start=msg15170#msg1517 0 date=1091223720]
I think there is some "more is better" thinking going on here, and I'm not sure if that is right when it comes to weight distribution hitches.
======snip=========

I initially thought that the 1,000 pound tongue weight hitch was the better choice, but I really think now that the 600 pound hitch is a better choice for the 2619, primarily because YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO DISTRIBUTE ABOUT 600 POUNDS OF TONGUE WEIGHT.
==========snip========

Has anyone used both hitches on a Trail Manor? Which one felt better?
[/quote]

The max weight of the 26 and 27 series (2004) is around 4050 +- 25 lbs. As you've stated, a tongue weight of around 575 lbs max is allowed for by TM. All that you've said is logical, in this best of all possible worlds .

I use a 750 lb rated WDH for my 2720SL. It seems just about perfect for my needs. Since I load anywhere from 100 to 200 lbs (guess) in the back of my 4Runner, I use the extra spring bar tension to keep the vehicle level. If the tongue weight were 500 lbs, and the cargo load over/behind the rear axle of the 4Runner is 200 lbs(cargo +hitch), I reckon I can add the torsion necessary to account for 700 lbs equivalent tongue weight. If I had a lot of weight in the rear of the tow vehicle I would be inclined to keep the tv attitude about the same as it was before dropping the trailer tongue on the hitch. My WDH hitch alone weighs 75 lbs. So 525 lbs of tongue wt and 75 lbs of hitch is 600 lbs before any cargo is loaded.

For the above reason, I WOULD NOT want to use a 600 lb rated setup. I agree that a 1000 lb rated WDH may be overkill for the 26 and 27 series trailers. However, if adjusted for the actual tongue weight + WDH + light cargo, it would seem to me to be unlikely to cause excessive stress on the trailer frame. Greater damping of oscillations - sure.

Damage due to oscillations would have to be either from long term normal stresses, or instantaneous overload. The long term can probably be ruled out, if the WDH is adjusted properly for the current load. The instantaneous overload would seem to require a fairly large deflection (i.e., huge pothole encountered at hiway speeds). In that case, the damage caused by the WDH may be the least of one's problem.

Caveat emptor: Just thinking on my keyboard.

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Old 07-30-2004, 09:44 PM   #13
tish4398
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Default Re:Equal-i-zer Hitch

I had the 1000# Equalizer but never could get it adjusted properly. The main office was of no help and the local dealer knew less than I did. I sent it back and bought an EAZ-Lift from a local hitch dealer. I figured out on my own that the ball wasn't high enough on the Equalizer. The Equalizer has advantages, mainly the built it sway control. You can back up with the Equalizer. The sway control I have now needs to be unhooked before I can back. I have own the EAZ-Lift for two years. I see many more Reese and EAZ-Lift than Equalizer. Equalizer needs to have better/more dealerships. I can buy either EAZ-lift or Reese from any hitch company in my town but there are only 2 Equalizer dealerships in Southern Cal.
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Old 07-31-2004, 09:59 AM   #14
RockyMtnRay
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Default Re:Equal-i-zer Hitch

[quote author=Denny_A link=board=20;threadid=1180;start=msg15178#msg1517 8 date=1091242648]
The max weight of the 26 and 27 series (2004) is around 4050 +- 25 lbs. As you've stated, a tongue weight of around 575 lbs max is allowed for by TM. All that you've said is logical, in this best of all possible worlds .

I use a 750 lb rated WDH for my 2720SL. It seems just about perfect for my needs. Since I load anywhere from 100 to 200 lbs (guess) in the back of my 4Runner, I use the extra spring bar tension to keep the vehicle level. If the tongue weight were 500 lbs, and the cargo load over/behind the rear axle of the 4Runner is 200 lbs(cargo +hitch), I reckon I can add the torsion necessary to account for 700 lbs equivalent tongue weight. If I had a lot of weight in the rear of the tow vehicle I would be inclined to keep the tv attitude about the same as it was before dropping the trailer tongue on the hitch. My WDH hitch alone weighs 75 lbs. So 525 lbs of tongue wt and 75 lbs of hitch is 600 lbs before any cargo is loaded.

For the above reason, I WOULD NOT want to use a 600 lb rated setup. I agree that a 1000 lb rated WDH may be overkill for the 26 and 27 series trailers. However, if adjusted for the actual tongue weight + WDH + light cargo, it would seem to me to be unlikely to cause excessive stress on the trailer frame. Greater damping of oscillations - sure.
[/quote]

I strongly concur with Denny...750lb bars are the right strength for a 2720 (and probably 2619) TM. My conclusion is based in part on observation of what it takes to get the loaded tow vehicle visibly level...and from actual weights on the tow vehicle front and rear axles with the trailer attached and not attached. I got those axle weights, and even more importantly, my exact hitch weights from participating in an RV Safety Foundation Weigh-In in both 2003 and 2004.

When I bought my TM, my dealer sold me a Reese WDH with 550 lb bars. At that time, my tow vehicle was a Jeep Cherokee. No matter how tight I set those bars (6 links dropped), I could never fully level the Jeep and when weighed, I found I was still getting 300 lbs of unweighting on the front wheels. The reason was the actual hitch weight was a rather large 515 lbs...very close to the maximum rating of the bars. After much searching, I was able to obtain a pair of 750 lb bars. With these bars snugged fairly tightly (5 links dropped), the Jeep appeared level and had enormously better front end steering and braking.

Last fall I replaced the Jeep with a much heavier and longer wheelbase Toyota Tundra half-ton truck. When I had the new rig weighed at this year's weigh-in, I was a bit surprised that even with 5 links dropped on the 750 lb bars, I was actually only distributing only 100 lbs of the hitch weight to the front wheels. This means that the WDH is mostly just cancelling the natural front wheel unweighting that occurs when substantial downforce is applied well behind the rear axle.

IMHO, the optimum rating for a 2619 and or 2720 series is 750lbs...550 lb bars are too light and 600 lb bars would be marginal. 1000 lb bars might be a bit too strong but not by a huge amount...at least for a front loaded 2720.

One thing is for certain...the hitch weights published by TrailManor are grossly low compared to real world weights for a well equipped and loaded-for-a-trip trailer. Like the so-called "tow ratings" published by the automakers, these published hitch weights are quasi-useful for comparison to other trailers but are dangerously useless for determining towing equipment requirements.
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Old 08-28-2004, 05:29 PM   #15
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I didn't find the 1009 Eaz-lift assembly instructions to be particularly intuitive, and since it was my first WDH project I did more head-scratching than I thought should have been necessary. And, since the buffer layer of hair is much thinner than in the past, I need to be judicious about unnecessary activity in that area.

Anyway, I got it mostly sorted out but didn't ever see in the directions (probably missed it)where they tell you to tighten the bolt against the washer-laden rivet after you have determined the proper number of washers and assembled the two big bolts that hold it all together. I can now tell you that if you don't tighten the bolt against the rivet, even a tiny amount of slack will cause the TV to lurch excessively during any acceleration/deceleration. Once I figured out that something had to be wrong (DW complaining of seasickness after only a few miles) and worked though the process of elimination, it was a simple matter to tighten the bolt and all the towing problems went away.

There is, however, another inherent compatibility problem between the Eaz-lift components and some of the TM's including my 3124KS.

The horizontal-mount LP tanks and the over-center apparati that mount on the trailer-arms are not compatible. You can't use the cheater bar (pipe) to completely pull the spring-bar chains into their over-center position because the tanks are in the way. If you release tension on the cheater pipe to try to get a better hold on the shorter bar, the tension will cause the bar to snap down with a vengence. So you need two cheaters to do a job that was obviously intended for only one.

Not only that, once you get the arms in place, you may find (as I did) that the ~3" rod/bars that the cheater fits over are too long to clear the tanks and will rub a hole in the LP tanks if not modified (gulp). There is no modification to those mounts that appears to work. I filed off part of an edge and inserted spacer washers between the tank mount and the frame(outboard bolt disproportionally lifted) all to no avail. I finally traded the arm mounts for some old ones that the dealer had lying around in the lot. The old mounts function much better, as the geometry of the lever bar causes it to be vertical rather than slanted towards the tanks when it is in the closed position. Only one cheater bar needed and no rubbing.

The old mounts also have a much better chain retention design that consists of a pronounced J-Hook on the end rather than just a notch filed or machined on the upper surface of a straight bar. Makes dealing with a chain (that always seems a little bit greasy anyway) much easier. The cheater bar isn't the same size, so we had to come up with a slightly bigger piece of pipe to make it work. But now that we have all the pieces in place, it is a great rig.

I just couldn't find the courage to pop for the electric jack, but may give in and do it before the next trip. "Why pay almost $300 for the jack for only a few seconds work each time?" was the question. After the trip, I think I know the answer. Same general answer as the one about why/where dogs lick.

Wayne
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Old 09-25-2004, 11:39 AM   #16
paul street
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Default Tongue weight



Just determined my tongue weight by the following method...

http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/tongueweight.html

Using the process depicted, my weight is 510 lbs. . I have a 2720sl. In looking at the trailmanor specifications, see that the present figure is 378 lbs..

So, this makes me wonder. My unit is opened and is on my cement slab. We do have some h2o in the fresh water tank; just don't know the amount exactly but probably about half full. Thetford also has about 3-4 gallons. (We have been testing everything and have only put water ito it to check it out.) Chair has been removed. Other contents are limited at this time; few cleaning goods (cleaning up from the prior owner), no camping stuff (food, clothes, etc, etc), no tv. In other words, very little inside.

So question is; does having it fully opened make a difference between what the trailmanor specifications show and what I have on hand?

And then, is this a critical problem for towing with our hitch?

Thank you.
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Old 09-25-2004, 01:19 PM   #17
Bill
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Paul -

I agree with T_C that you are getting a bogus reading with the TM opened. Tongue weight should be measured with the TM ready for travel, since the only time tongue weight matters is when you are ready to hitch up and move on down the road. So this means it should be measured with the TM closed, but also when it is fully stocked with food, clothes, appliances, propane, and whatever else you expect to have when you are on the road.

When you open a TM, a lot of weight moves forward. The slider is probably the biggest contributor, but raising the shells contributes, too. The front shell moves forward, which increase tongue weight - the back shell moves back which decreases tongue weight - but since the tires aren't centered on the length of the body, they probably don't cancel each other out. If you have roof air, the unit is slightly forward of the wheels when closed - but it moves forward a lot more when the front shell opens. Water is heavy, but in a 2720SL it is under the sink, which is near the tires, so it probably doesn't contribute much to hitch weight. Forty pounds of propane translates almost exactly to 40 pounds of tongue weight - I don't believe that any of the TM weight numbers include propane in the tanks. And as T_C points out, the awning is another biggy, since it is forward of the wheels, and swings even further forward with the front shell.

If you get a chance, make the measurement again, and let us know what you find. We'll all be interested.

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Old 09-25-2004, 03:40 PM   #18
paul street
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Default Tongue weight


Will do Bill. Yes, had overlooked mentioning that there is an awning; and had not taken that into consideration. Also the propone tanks, tongue, etc ; which is odd that trailmanor does not disclose all of this with their specifications; plus the fact that they don't differenate between open and closed which in my mind is the 'biggie'.

Had considered the half tank of water in it but as you say had also eliminated it due to it's location which is under the sink and over the axle. Also the air conditioner opposite the sink area adjacent to the range. These were not considered; in my 'newbie' mind that is.

Right now we are beginning to load her up with the permanent stuff. So when completed will take your comments along the others and see what the 'new day' brings regarding the adjusted tongue weight.

Thanks for all of the help. Very informative. Just a 'newbie' trying to get a handle on everything regarding to the towing and hitch requirements. Don't want to wind up in a ditch somewhere.
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Old 09-26-2004, 10:07 AM   #19
RockyMtnRay
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Default 2720SL tongue weight will be about 500 lbs

I've had my 2720SL weighed twice at RVSEF (RV Safety Education Foundation) weigh ins. Tongue weights averaged about 500 lbs (their portable scales seem to have a +/- 25 variance so the exact weights are a bit suspect).

Weighing was done with filled water heater, basic (3 gal) toilet charge, half filled fresh tank, and empty grey tank. Both propane tanks were filled. The refrigerator and cabinets were filled with a 4 day supply of food and beverages.

My TM has the awning and side mount AC, the last time also had dual 6V Golf Cart batteries in the rear battery compartment. I also have about 50 lbs of solar panels on the front shell roof. I also still have the easy chair inside. When stowing for travel, I put the overhead cabinet (~22 lbs) and a lightweight microwave (~20 lbs) on the floor immediately in front of the couch so these items are almost totally carried as hitch weight.

The bottom line is a typical 2720SL with a ready-to-go-camping supply of propane, food, water, and gear is going to have about a 500 to 550 lb hitch weight. The hitch weight on TM's website is just like the "empty" total weight...a measurement that does not include any optional equipment (factory or dealer installed) nor does it include any food/water/propane/gear. It also may be out of date as TM has in the past added features (like more windows) with no change in their published weights.

RV "empty" weights have one thing in common with vehicle "tow ratings"...they're both bogus numbers derived from completely empty and optionless units. The RV weight grossly understates the actual load on the tow vehicle; the vehicle's tow rating grossly overstates the load the vehicle can tow. Put the two together and there's potential for major trouble. Unfortunately these measurement techniques are the standard in both industries.
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The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


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Old 10-02-2004, 09:08 PM   #20
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Re-measured my tongue weight today; with unit folded up and latched down. Had full tank of water, 3 gal. in toilet and pots/pans/etc. Only things not in, clothes and food. Estimate that to be approx. another 3-400 lbs..; which will go over the axle or slightly ahead as recommended.

Anyway, today, following the bathroom scale method, this time the measurement was 390 lbs. Far cry from the aforementioned 500+ lbs with the unit opened.

Just thought I'd update those that were curious. Now I am 'fiddling' around with getting used to the brake control just installed and trying to get the correct settings on the wd hitch relative to the various weight measurements here and there.
Paul


Quote:
Originally Posted by paul street

Will do Bill. Yes, had overlooked mentioning that there is an awning; and had not taken that into consideration. Also the propone tanks, tongue, etc ; which is odd that trailmanor does not disclose all of this with their specifications; plus the fact that they don't differenate between open and closed which in my mind is the 'biggie'.

Had considered the half tank of water in it but as you say had also eliminated it due to it's location which is under the sink and over the axle. Also the air conditioner opposite the sink area adjacent to the range. These were not considered; in my 'newbie' mind that is.

Right now we are beginning to load her up with the permanent stuff. So when completed will take your comments along the others and see what the 'new day' brings regarding the adjusted tongue weight.

Thanks for all of the help. Very informative. Just a 'newbie' trying to get a handle on everything regarding to the towing and hitch requirements. Don't want to wind up in a ditch somewhere.
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