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Old 04-15-2011, 11:26 AM   #21
RogerR
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Most recent model cars have the fuel filter surrounding the fuel pump in the lowest part of the gas tank.

A little gasohol once in a while will pick up any water in the tank.

Modern stations have double walled tanks and the chance of having water in the tank is very small. It did happen at a place I worked at in the 70s. The first three cars all went a block or two and died when the water was pumped into the engine. Very unlikely these days unless the tank lid above ground is not sealed and you have water coming in there.
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:03 PM   #22
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This test was done several years ago and both Mobile 1 and Amsoil have been reformulated several times, since. Also the Amsoil that was used in their test is not their best oil. Their 0w-30 is their premium oil. For the record Mobile 1 is very good oil and up a certain amount of miles it is as good as any boutique oil like Amsoil. UOAs have proved that Amsoil is the best oil for extended oil change intervals (OCI). As a matter of fact, I used Amsoil (0w-30) in my previous TV with an oil bypass system and I didn’t change the oil for over 40,000 miles (changed a filter once a year) and it was still providing safe protection and stayed in the original viscosity range (UOAs once a year).

Koz
Very interesting, and good info. I'm not sure why, but I enjoy this kind of discussion and reading about others experiences with different oils and fuels. From personal experience, I used Mobile 1 in my Subaru, changed it every 5000 miles and at 196,000 miles, it still didn't use a drop of oil and ran like a top. Was it the oil? Maybe, I don't know, could have helped I guess, so why take chances.
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:27 AM   #23
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Very interesting, and good info. I'm not sure why, but I enjoy this kind of discussion and reading about others experiences with different oils and fuels. From personal experience, I used Mobile 1 in my Subaru, changed it every 5000 miles and at 196,000 miles, it still didn't use a drop of oil and ran like a top. Was it the oil? Maybe, I don't know, could have helped I guess, so why take chances.
You may find The difference between petroleum and synthetic based oils interesting and why synthetic is so superior.

Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.

Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.

Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!

Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.

Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.

Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.

To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.

Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.

Koz
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:47 AM   #24
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Making the rounds, are we?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/mainte...html#post75363

http://my.is/forums/f87/mobil-1-exte...ml#post4314610

If you are quoting a manufacturer's web site or performance data, why not just say so? Why all the posts that imply this is your expertise on the issue, rather than letting the experts speak for themselves?

From Amsoil:

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-chang...-to-synthetic/

From J.D. Power:

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...ic-Motor-Oils/

From Mobil 1:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...rformance.aspx
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:40 PM   #25
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Making the rounds, are we?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/mainte...html#post75363

http://my.is/forums/f87/mobil-1-exte...ml#post4314610

If you are quoting a manufacturer's web site or performance data, why not just say so? Why all the posts that imply this is your expertise on the issue, rather than letting the experts speak for themselves?
What exactly are you insinuating? I'm a member of several owner's forums for vehicles I own (and have owned), including high performance motorcycles. I've been a maintenance manager for over 20 years and also a motorhead all my life. I have a very extensive history of technical training in many different aspects/fields of maintenance. What I wrote and shared with the members of this forum (and other forums) was intended to provide what I think is good information that some people would find interesting and maybe informative. This is information I have acquired from years of personal experience, technical training and reading/research. I certainly didn't write it to impress anyone, if that's what you are implying.

My previous TV was a V8 4Runner and I've been a member of that forum for many years and have shared thousands of posts there. If you searched my name there, maybe you would have not been so quick judge. Here is a post concerning the installation of the Amsoil bypass system I installed on my T4R and shared with the forum members.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/perfor...install-2.html

Koz
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Old 04-16-2011, 04:10 PM   #26
T and C
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Default Nitrogen experience

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Nitrogen is not a scam (been around a long time), it's just not practical for passenger cars. There are two main advantages to nitrogen; optimal pressure will be maintained four times longer and there will be less pressure fluctuation when there is a temp change. Remember with air you will lose 1lb a month no matter what and 1lb for every 10 degrees. Nitrogen can be effective for commercial vehicles, aircraft, motorcycles, some racing applications and in some special applications like trailers.

My personal feelings are; if you can get it for free, use it. If you have to pay for it, I would pass.
Koz
I took my 3023 out to Tucson in January of this year. Before leaving I made sure the tires had 65 psi cold. Its about 450 miles each way from where I live.

This week the DW and I took a couple of grandkids camping at Mission Bay in San Diego. Before hooking up I checked the tire pressures. 65 psi cold after sitting in the driveway for 10 weeks.

I had nitrogen put in the tires when I bought them in August 2010. I cannot say how big the molecules are or how fast they can leak out of the tires. All I know is that over a two month period and 1000 or so miles...no change in pressure in my tires.

Tom
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:32 PM   #27
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I find that good tires can hold pressure perfectly for many months with nothing but good old 80% nitrogen air in them. I also find that some are less than perfect, but you have to keep checking them to be able to remember which is which.

I keep all of my tires at pressures near the number on the sidewall, because it provides both the best tread wear and the best gas mileage. It also gives you more time to discover the problem on a slow leaker.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:57 AM   #28
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The owners manual will give the requirements for all vehicle fluids. They will be listed with API, SAE and MIL numbers. Since the petroleum companies pay a lot to get their products tested and approved, they don't like to do it very often. So they usually try to not only meet the current requirements but try to surpass them so they can undergo the fewest tests necessary. So if the bottle of oil has the vehicle's required lables you should be good to go.

American Petroleum Institute
Society of American Engineers
Military

Regarding reconditioned oil:
I kicked pedals and jammed gears for 9 years, dragging around a 42 foot 9,000 gallons tanker for Conoco and Phillips 66. And I have had station dealers tell me they have put re-refined/reconditioned oil in old oil burning engines. Oil bottles of the same weight oil would pour in 'glug......glug......glug.' And the next bottle would pour 'glugglugglug.'
That is hear-say evidence, I admit. But I can't see using it except for an oil-burning engine.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:41 AM   #29
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Since 1981 I have been getting at least 185k miles out of all of my vehicles using dino oil. This usually take around 15 years.

What would I have gained if I had used synthetic?
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:43 AM   #30
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The satisfaction knowing you have contributed to the oil companies huge profits???
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