Harbor Frieght 61169: First look

[Padgett]

Few years ago I bought a Honda EU2000i for my Vixen thinking it would be enough power. Only blem wit that was that the 1986 mode central ac under the dinette really made it grunt. One of the VOA members had a kit that did three things:

1) turned both the coach and the compressor fan on continuously.
2) added a "hard start" capacitor
3) added a time delay so the compressor did not start until the fans had been on for a minute.

Honda still grunted (could not use ECO mode) but did the job.

TM needs more. For one thing it appears you cannot turn off the converter. Secondly instead of a 600W microwave it has a 1100W. It also has a electric water heater (Vixen has a diesel furnace). And a few other things so felt I needed More Power. That said I could get $50 off the $1100 EU2000 companion. but would need to carry 2.

Or the 2500/2200W HF "Predator" #61169 was on sale (everything at HF goes on sale sometime) for $499. My feeling was that if the 2000/1600 Honda was grunting, a 2500/2200 gen should take in stride. Did chicken out a bit and bought the $129 2 year extended service contract.

OK so this afternoon I gave it a prep and while dealing with the hub issue (pretty sure someone with a really big air gun put metric lug nuts on the SAE studs) let it idle for an hour or so before connecting to the TM then let it run for another hour at very light load before heating some water in the Microwave as a 1100W test. Ran fine and putting out 118-119VAC.

Might mention I pulled it though a number of times with the fuel off to circulate the oil then turned on & waited a few seconds for flow to happen then pulled. First pull popped a little, second pull started.

Then turned on the ac fan and ran on high for a while before the final test: turned the ac on. First try NG, voltage dropped to 45vac and the gen stalled. Did twice.

OK so not idea what the ac is, have not found a label & could not find my special split lead to measure loads above 10A so brought out the little Honda.

Let run at idle a bit to warm up and turned off the ECO mode. Ran ac fan on high for a bit then switched to ac. Honda grunted and voltage dropped to 65VAC then I heard the Honda dig in, compressor started, and cool air flowed.

Back at the Predator I pulled the cover and moved all of the linkages through their ranges to eliminate any sticktion then told it to learn from the Honda and what would happen if it stayed recalcitrant.

Started again and let settle before trial. This time the voltage only dropped to about 95VAC and for the first time I heard it shoulder the load coming back to 118v quickly and cold air blowing. Was running easier than the Honda did. I let it stay on and go through several cycles while watching the voltmeter when the compressor kicked in. Took the load much easier than the Honda.

So after about four hours and a bit of jiggling it is doing exactly what I expected.

May need to turn the house battery sideways but then the gen should fit in that compartment. It is about 20lbs heavier than the Honda but not much louder even when loaded, about enough to match a 25% larger engine rated for 37% more power. And about half the price. Much quieter than a Coleman Powermate I wound up giving away as a wedding present. Much quieter than the 800W 2 stroke I also have. Too bad I cannot just gang them all together.

Longetivity ? Unknown at this point, reviews are all over the place which is typical and the reason for the extended service contract (first one I ever bought from HF.

If I get everything together and figure out how to turn around in the back yard will be at Lake Louise this weekend for more "testing".

ref HF Predator

[ArkyDoodle]

I noticed that our HF is running a "sale" on their 4000/3200W 6.5HP Predator currently listed at $290 (regularly $500)....It looks like it's listed under many different item numbers (?), 68528 / 69675 / 69676 / 69728 / 69729

So would this $300 unit power everything, including the A/C???

HF shows it at 70dB, 100 lbs, runs for 10 hrs.....Thoughts???

[Redtail Cruiser]

100 POUNDS! I wouldn't want to lift that kind of weight into the back of my truck and a 100# genny plus carrier on the back of the TM would make it sway. I guess you could use ramps to push it up into your TV, but then you always have to bring the ramps with you.

That's why I chose the twin Champion 2000's. They only weigh 42 pounds each and both of them plus the bridge connector were only $800 with free delivery on eBay.

[Bill]

You should run through those HF part numbers again - they are not the same unit. I looked at only a couple. The one in your title is an inverter generator, more expensive than you thought. The next one is a contractor generator, at the price you listed, but 70 dB is horribly loud. It wouldn't make you popular with other campers.

Bill

[MT Camper]

70 dB is really noisy and would be very annoying to have to listen to, not just for you, but for other campers also.

[scrubjaysnest]

A/C units on RV's, TM included are usually 13500 btu. That means a 3500 watt ginney as a minimum to get the A/C unit going. Sometimes you run into a 15000 btu A/C unit. Hillbillyhotel has a 3000 watt Honda that may start the A/C and having just been camped right next to them I can say it is a very quiet unit. The preferred method seems to be two 2000 watt Honda's with the kit to run in parallel. These can be handled by one person at least.
ECO mode on the Honda's is economy mode and isn't intended to run high wattage devices; it's a fuel saving mode.

[Padgett]

Are a few things you need to keep in mind about generators. First the big number is what they call surge watts & can only maintain for a short time. The "gotcha" is that when running at a light load (or Honda is throttled way back in ECO) it takes time for the genny to throttle up and reach peak. Usually a second or two. And for that time you have a big load and the voltage drops. When starting an a/c compressor that drop is critical, below about 95 volts and it is straining. This is where a bit "hard start" capacitor is useful to store energy for that short surge.

The best case is to have a generator that can handle the startup surge in the cruise mode. The problem with the Honda in ECO mode is that it is throttled back so far it takes too long to meet a big surge and may just trip the breaker.

Don't get me wrong, the EU2000i is the standard of the world for a generator for an RV. It is very quiet and I have one but whether it can start the ac is iffy. Seems to do well though dip is to about 65 volts.

The problem is the 98.5cc motor is sized for 1650w (13.5a) continuous and that is marginal for the AC. If you had a 7000 btu AC it would be fine and keep you cool/dry at night. Most TMs have at least a 13,500 btu unit.

So Honda's answer is either the 3000i which has plenty of power (2600w continuous) but is also 15" wide and over $2,000. Honda's other answer is to have two 2000s, a EU2000i and a EU2000i companion which can run in parallel and the "C" has a 30amp plug like at the back of the TM. The issue is that now you need to carry two generators and they are $1000 each. But then you have what is considered the best setup for RVing.

On the gripping hand I had different criteria. Even though I have an EU2000i that is fine for cool nights, in Florida it tends to get warm and need more. The Eu2000i fits in the rear compartment next to the battery but two of them would not.

Which brings up to the HF Predator. There are three pluses and one minus and a half. The half is that because it has a larger (127cc) engine, it is a little louder than the EU2000i. I do not have a 3000 so cannot compare. The major negative is that it comes from HF but I also have a 900W genny from them that has been fine for five years and mitigated with a service contract. That there are three HFs within an easy drive of my house is a factor.

The three plusses is that the 2200w (18A) continuous seems plenty for the ac/fridge/ pumps/lights though not sure about the microwave at the same time. Could say the same about the 3000i though the dual 2000s (3300w continuous) would be a lot more. Second it fits in the rear compartment with the battery (though I would move elsewhere during sleepy time since compartment is under the bed. Third at under $700 even with the service contract it is a lot less expensive than other options.

So it was not just the power though in Florida it seems to have enough for the TM but price and space required while travelling were factors also.

Bottom line: I bought one for my use (was on sale) and seems just fine. YMMV.

There is also the Honda Handi 3000 which is slightly less powerful but runs my AC even at altitude. It is lighter than the bigger Honda 3000 and better yet, comes with wheels and a collapsible handle, hence the "Handi" name. I helped "rationalize" the costs by installer a transfer switch at my house so I can run essential circuits there as well. The neat thing is not long after I had it available we lost power for nearly 3 days due to an ice storm. Worked well in that situation too.
And yea, 70dB is loud, unless you are at a construction site...

[TM Pilot]

http://www.harborfreight.com/engines...1169-html.html

http://manuals.harborfreight.com/man...1999/61169.PDF

Padgett,

Above is the link to the HF generator and its instruction manual you were referring to. It is on sale for $499. Great price.

However, a concern I have is the sound level: 64dBa at 23ft at 50% load. That's really loud for a inverter generator that size.

While that size generator may work for your TM (including A/C) by sea level in FL, it probably will not work for us TMers out west at high altitude (above 5000ft). While the instructions allow for carburetor mixture adjustments for the fuel/air ration at high altitude, the generator will still lose 3-4% of it's power every 1000ft above sea level.

[Padgett]

All I can say is that when testing I had my EU2000 sitting next to the Predator. And the Honda was over 75% of max with the AC running and the Predator was loafing. I really could not tell much difference in sound level. A deadening cover would make a considerable difference for both.

Agree that in ECO mode the Honda can be very quiet but it cannot run the AC in ECO. My sister's is at 4800 feet, next time I get out there with the TM I'll try but even 15% down the Predator still has 10% more power than the Honda at Sea Level.

Will admit that a major factor was that it fits with the GRP 29 battery in the rear compartment.