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Old 08-10-2022, 05:45 PM   #21
Bill
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Originally Posted by Wavery View Post
The gross trailer weight is 3800#, as you mentioned, the "towed weight" is 3300#.
I'd be real careful about that conclusion. Depends on what you are going to do with it, I suppose. But the tow vehicle has to contend with all 3800 pounds. It has to start it, stop it, tug it up long grades, keep the engine cool, keep the transmission cool, keep it under control in emergency situations. None of this changed by simply moving the weight around. You should not conclude that moving weight around makes things easier on the tow vehicle. In fact, the hitch weight makes things worse, by stressing all the rear end components.

There is a reason why car/truck manufacturers specify towing capacity, and why they offer (and often require) factory-installed towing equipment packages. And the SAE's new towing spec J-2807 does not make any distinction based on where you put the weight. Nor should we.

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Old 08-10-2022, 06:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
I'd be real careful about that conclusion. Depends on what you are going to do with it, I suppose. But the tow vehicle has to contend with all 3800 pounds. It has to start it, stop it, keep the engine cool, keep the transmission cool, keep it under control in emergency situations. None of this changed by simply moving the weight around. In fact, the hitch weight makes things worse, by stressing all the rear end components.

There is a reason why car/truck manufacturers specify towing capacity, and why they offer (and often require) factory-installed towing equipment packages. And the SAE's new towing spec J-2807 does not make any distinction based on where you put the weight. Nor should we.

Bill
The "Towed weight" is the weight behind the trailer hitch. The other 500# (in this example) is part of the overall "Payload weight". That is an important distinction because it effects a different part of the total CGVW.

It is all part of the package that the vehicle has to pull around and (more importantly) STOP..... The "payload weight" effects the running parts of the vehicle, like bearings, tires etc. The "Towed weight" effects only the work that has to be done. It has it's own set of tires, bearings and suspension.

No one is saying that the towed weight doesn't effect the overall wear & tear and performance of the tow vehicle. It's just a distinction that is valid.
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Old 08-11-2022, 05:18 AM   #23
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It's just a distinction that is valid.
Not to be argumentative, but I don't understand the value of this distinction. You followed it up by saying "The "Towed weight" effects only the work that has to be done." Really? Does that mean that the tow vehicle doesn't have to do the work of starting, stopping, hill climbing, etc? Of course not. But if I am a newbie, and don't quite understand what is going on, and people keep asking me about the weight of my trailer, and the ability of my tow vehicle to handle that weight, what is my conclusion? My first conclusion is that a lighter trailer is better. And that leads me to think that if I can lighten my trailer by, for example, moving some weight around, that is a good thing. If I can reduce my 3800-pound trailer to 3300 pounds, as shown and confirmed by a real scale, I have improved things.

I agree that GCWR is a most important spec - but how many times do people sit around the campfire talking about GCWR, as opposed to the never-ending talk about weight? I think that by making this "valid distinction", you are setting new owners up for problems.

'Nuff. Either I've made my point, or I haven't.

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Old 08-11-2022, 11:50 AM   #24
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What Wavery is saying makes sense, and I hadn’t thought about it that way. Bill, remember that tongue weight is accounted for in the GVWR. And also remember as actual payload goes up, tow capacity has to go down to stay within GCWR. 500lbs tongue weight would be no different than carrying 500lbs of teenagers in the back seat (weight distribution not withstanding).
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Old 08-11-2022, 02:17 PM   #25
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Oldporkchops ... your name just cracks me up! Thank you for the video link. Awesome!
Would it have cracked you up if it was "youngporkchops"?

Jokes aside, I personally found these two videos helpful in understanding load distribution and sway, and hope you'll glean a thing or two from them too. The video creator has many other excellent videos on sway.

https://youtu.be/JeEEC5eVNCk

https://youtu.be/nc0ndz92IWY
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Old Today, 08:52 AM   #26
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Would it have cracked you up if it was "youngporkchops"?

Jokes aside, I personally found these two videos helpful in understanding load distribution and sway, and hope you'll glean a thing or two from them too. The video creator has many other excellent videos on sway.

https://youtu.be/JeEEC5eVNCk

https://youtu.be/nc0ndz92IWY
Those videos are great for helping owners understand the effects and causes of sway. However, they have very little to do with the TrailManor because of it's basic design. You'll notice, in both videos, that the example trailer has a centrally located axle (as do most trailers). The axle on TrailManors are located well aft of the centerline which changes the dynamics tremendously. This axle being farther back increases the tongue weight of the trailer and because of the interior design of the trailer (in tow configuration) there is very little that can be done to overload the trailer behind the axle unless someone attaches an extension behind the rear bumper (like a bike rack or generator or other weight). In that case, the owner is removing tongue weight and increasing the possibility of sway.
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