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Old 08-12-2022, 10:36 PM   #1
Wavery
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Default LiFeP04 Battery 2720SL

I finally finished the install of my 230AH LiFeP04 Lithium battery.

I owe a lot of thanks to "rickst29" for all of his expertise and extraordinary patience.

Getting the best and safety out of the lithium batteries takes a lot more than I thought. All of the wire sizes, special busbars fuses etc make it safe and efficient. My install isn't perfect but I thought that it might be helpful to some and the discussion could be helpful to all that may be interested in doing this.

I'm not going to go into all the "cell compression" that Rick so eloquently helped me with to build my battery out of raw cells. To be honest, I wouldn't do it again but I wanted to do it once.

What you don't see in this pic is that I replaced the WFCO Charge controller with a Progressive Dynamics charge controller and installed a "Go Power TS-30 30 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch" which I highly recommend for anyone that is installing an inverter that the want to tie into their trailers 110V power panel and circuit breakers.

I wire the PD charge controller directly to the battery with 6G wire (as apposed to wiring it through the WFCO power center). Then the power center gets it's power directly from the battery through 8G wire. The 110V from the shore power cable goes through the Automatic transfer switch so that when shore power gets plugged in, the inverter is instantly taken out of the loop anthe power center gets 110V from shore power. Then when shore power is unplugged, the inverter automatically gets power again and 110V comes from the inverter to the power center.
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640W solar- 230AH LiFeP04 Battery
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Old 09-01-2022, 09:20 PM   #2
coralcruze
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Wow great job. Do you plan on expanding the battery bank down the line and if so is weight management an issue when considering this?
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Old 09-02-2022, 07:09 PM   #3
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Slick job!
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Old 09-02-2022, 07:25 PM   #4
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@wavery. Can you give us lay people a brief overview on the inner workings of this system?
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Old 09-03-2022, 09:35 AM   #5
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Looks nice, Wavery! [emoji106]
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420Ah LiFePO4 battery bank, kilowatt solar, 3K Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter, DC-to-DC Charger, Sealand 711-M28 toilet, Maxxis 8008 Load Rated E
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Old 09-04-2022, 01:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralcruze View Post
Wow great job. Do you plan on expanding the battery bank down the line and if so is weight management an issue when considering this?
Thanks for asking.... good question.

The LiFeP04 battery pack is about 1/6th of the weight of a comparable lead/acid battery system. This small battery pack weighs about 45# and stores 230AH (about 184ah of USEABLE energy @ 80% of rated value). A comparable lead/acid battery pack would have to be 4x 6V golf cart batteries @ 75# each (wired 2 batteries in series and 2 pairs in parallel) rated @ 400AH for the pack. That would give you about 200 useable AH @ 50% of rated value. That battery pack would weigh about 300#.

200ah @ 300# = 1.5# per ah
184ah @ 45# = .24# per ah

This LiFeP04 230AH battery is about the same weight as the original single 85AH battery that came with the trailer new. So, in reality, I am actually closer to design specs than I was with 2- 6V golf cart batteries that weighed 150# and reduced the trailer's tongue weight by about 70#.

Having said all that, I do plan to expand my solar array from 200W to 400W if I can't get this battery pack fully charged by about 3:PM each day. That all depends on my consumption of course.

The biggest reason for the LiFeP04 battery is it's longevity (about 10-15 years) compared to lead/acid batteries @ around 5-6 years.
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Old 09-04-2022, 08:49 PM   #7
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That sounds great. Please keep us posted once you do some real world testing of the system. Weight to usable energy def. sounds like has room to expand but then at the same weight as original OEM... I'd make that switch in a heartbeat.
I will be following along. I would also love to know more about your pannel install and how you ran wiring also.
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Old 09-05-2022, 11:11 AM   #8
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The biggest problem with switching to LiFeP04 batteries is the amount of work involved, operating in small spaces.

I highly recommend developing a detailed plan before ever starting this project. That plan should not only be a drawing and parts list, it should be detailed as to the order of the steps and exact placement for installation of each and every component. For instance, the last component that I installed was the automatic transfer switch. I didn't know they existed. Had I developed a plan, I would have installed that component 1st because of it's size and where I decided to install it. Space being a premium in the rear storage locker, I decided to install the transfer switch in the void between the shower wall and the bathtub (next to the WFCO converter). That meant that I had to remove the Progressive Dynamics converter and the WFCO control panel (that I had just spent hours installing) to gain access to my intended area. I also had to cut a 10"x 10" hole in the wall (shown in the pic above, covered by a vent grate).

I failed to do that because I didn't take the complexity of the change seriously. That lead to a bunch of redoes, wasted $ on parts that weren't adequate for the job and a lot of labor hours. With a proper plan, I could have (easily) completed this entire install in a weekend. As it was, this install took me nearly 3 weeks. Partially because it's summer and I needed lots of breaks but mostly due to waiting for parts to arrive as I discovered that a certain wire size was wrong (order, wait 2-days). Then I discovered that a certain fuse wasn't right and I needed a special circuit breaker (order, wait 2-days). I needed a special tool, (order, wait 2-days). On and on it went.

All I can say is, "over size" most everything. What you pay in a few extra $, will likely save you in redoes, aggravation and wasted $ in wrong parts. This isn't just a matter of installing a new battery.......... These LiFeP04 batteries can put out thousands of amps and the wiring in the TM is simply not adequate for the job. If something shorts out with one of these batteries, there is a likelihood of a fire.
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Old 09-05-2022, 11:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavery View Post
The biggest problem with switching to LiFeP04 batteries is the amount of work involved, operating in small spaces.

I highly recommend developing a detailed plan before ever starting this project. That plan should not only be a drawing and parts list, it should be detailed as to the order of the steps and exact placement for installation of each and every component. For instance, the last component that I installed was the automatic transfer switch. I didn't know they existed. Had I developed a plan, I would have installed that component 1st because of it's size and where I decided to install it. Space being a premium in the rear storage locker, I decided to install the transfer switch in the void between the shower wall and the bathtub (next to the WFCO converter). That meant that I had to remove the Progressive Dynamics converter and the WFCO control panel (that I had just spent hours installing) to gain access to my intended area. I also had to cut a 10"x 10" hole in the wall (shown in the pic above, covered by a vent grate).

I failed to do that because I didn't take the complexity of the change seriously. That lead to a bunch of redoes, wasted $ on parts that weren't adequate for the job and a lot of labor hours. With a proper plan, I could have (easily) completed this entire install in a weekend. As it was, this install took me nearly 3 weeks. Partially because it's summer and I needed lots of breaks but mostly due to waiting for parts to arrive as I discovered that a certain wire size was wrong (order, wait 2-days). Then I discovered that a certain fuse wasn't right and I needed a special circuit breaker (order, wait 2-days). I needed a special tool, (order, wait 2-days). On and on it went.

All I can say is, "over size" most everything. What you pay in a few extra $, will likely save you in redoes, aggravation and wasted $ in wrong parts. This isn't just a matter of installing a new battery.......... These LiFeP04 batteries can put out thousands of amps and the wiring in the TM is simply not adequate for the job. If something shorts out with one of these batteries, there is a likelihood of a fire.
Sounds like you spent some fun weekends in the sun. 😁 I have been in tye same boat. Different projects though. This project def. looks complex and one that requires alot of thinking through with steps list and parts list as well.

I tell you one thing, I would miss my outdoor utility cab storage as I use every inch of it for tools and outside access. I suppose I could convert the hall cabinet into a utility or a solar cabinet by installing a similar RV style hatch/door. But then the battery weight would be more centered on the back bumper for solar. Venting for the battery here would have to be planned. The door at the end of the hall could be permanently shut and become a decorative pannel inside the TM.
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Old 09-05-2022, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralcruze View Post
Sounds like you spent some fun weekends in the sun. 😁 I have been in tye same boat. Different projects though. This project def. looks complex and one that requires alot of thinking through with steps list and parts list as well.

I tell you one thing, I would miss my outdoor utility cab storage as I use every inch of it for tools and outside access. I suppose I could convert the hall cabinet into a utility or a solar cabinet by installing a similar RV style hatch/door. But then the battery weight would be more centered on the back bumper for solar. Venting for the battery here would have to be planned. The door at the end of the hall could be permanently shut and become a decorative pannel inside the TM.
The LiFeP04 battery doesn't gas off so there is no need for venting. Supposedly, they can be mounted anywhere, in any direction. It's common for people to mount them standing on end. They take up about the same space as the original TM battery (series 24). Mine could have taken up a lot less space. I used the battery box that I had my 2- 6V golf cart batteries in. I had to put a lot of Styrofoam around it to pack it in.

The problem that you would have with putting the battery (and inverter) in that cabinet is that you would have to drill a hole from that cabinet to the outside cabinet, then another hole from the back of the outside cabinet to the space where the converter is. Not a big deal, just one of those small details that will have to be considered for wire routing and equipment mounting. You will want the inverter as close a possible to the battery.

Lot's of parts pieces to consider. I highly recommend that automatic transfer switch. I helped a friend convert his motorhome. His MH had a separate circuit breaker for the converter, so when he wanted to use the inverter, he just had to remember to switch off the converter breaker. Then, he had to have a shut-off switch for the 110V power cable from the inverter to the converter breaker to keep from getting 110V feedback when he was hooked to shore power. He forgot one of the switches. Melted the circuit board in the (new) inverter and darn near caused a fire.

Another place to consider for the inverter (and other components) is on the back of the camper, under the rear bed, It's great for keeping it cool. it's protected from the weather and it's totally covered when the roof is down. There's quite a bit of space between the back wall of the camper and the inside of the back wall on the rear roof.
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