Tankless water heater

01-20-2014, 07:52 PM

With four members in my household that are fans of HOT water, we are finding the standard hot water heater capacity to be too small. Has any one on the forum either upgraded their hot water heater or replaced it with a tankless option? I own a 2005 3023.

Chuck

**Bill** · 01-20-2014, 09:16 PM

Chuck -

Your question is a good one, but belongs in the Plumbing forum. I will leave it here for a couple days to gather initial impressions, but then I will move it. Once it is in the Plumbing forum, you won't be able to see it since your Trial Membership has expired. To overcome this, you might consider becoming a Sponsor.

As an FYI, there have been several threads on the topic of tankless water heaters - all in the Plumbing forum.

Bill (moderator)

01-21-2014, 07:06 AM

Two comments:

Tankless systems are expensive, not sure the gain is worth the pain.

If you are using electric to heat water, switch to propane. Recovery time is much faster. This assumes your TM water heater offers both options. I never use electric for water heating, I save it for air conditioning here in FL.

LoveToCamp · 01-21-2014, 09:23 AM

Seems like the family member may want to consider shorter showers. We take navy showers, and we had no problem with a 4-gallon heater. I had the temp on medium, so it could have had hotter water.

Seems like, with a 6-gallon heater set on Hottest (almost scalding), you should be able to shower 3 people back-to-back with navy showers, and the 4th would only have to wait 10 minutes after the last shower.

Just my opinion, based on my experience. I don't allow long showers in our trailer, as water is too precious to have to keep hand-loading into the fresh tank. If you are hooked to city water, it is not the same issue, so navy showers may be seen as unnecessary. But, there would be more hot water available with shorter showers.

**Bill** · 01-21-2014, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterP

If you are using electric to heat water, switch to propane.

According to the manufacturer, it is quite acceptable to use both electric and propane at the same time. This really cuts the recovery time, though I don't know if it would fully satisfy your needs.

In a commercial campground, I leave the electric element on all time, but turn off the propane burner. Then, I switch on the propane just as I get into the shower, and there is plenty of hot water for me, and for my wife to take a shower, including washing her hair, immediately after me. When she is done, I shut off the propane burner again.

It is worth pointing out that you can buy either an electric or a gas-fired tankless water heater. Electric isn't suitable for a TM. Why? If the original water heater in the TM can't keep up with demand when switched to electric-only (and it can't), then a tankless electric unit probably can't do any better because it is limited to the same electricity supply. I did a quick search, and the smallest electric tankless I could find uses 25 amps at 120 volts. That is about the most you can expect in your TM. And this unit can heat only 0.6 gallons per minute when generating only a 35 degree temperature rise. That is not really enough flow for a shower (even low-flow showerheads use about 2 gpm). And worse than that, if you want shower water at 110 degrees, you have to start with water at 75 degrees - in other words, warm water. If the incoming water is cooler, then you get even less flow.

So that leaves you with a gas-only tankless unit. Here you are limited only by the flow rate from your TM's propane tank (and venting considerations), so you might find one. But as noted earlier, they are very expesnive - think $1000 for the unit, plus installation cost.

Just as an aside, I have had terrible luck with tankless water heaters - but that was in Europe many years ago. Maybe they are better now.

Bill

ThePair · 01-22-2014, 11:08 AM

In the past, I've seen add-ons to a shower head that can provide point-of-service heating of the water. If the water is only warm, these add-ons can make them hot, certainly hot enough for a shower. And, the ones I've seen were AC.

That being said, I would second the thoughts mentioned above: run both electric and propane, limit shower length, take a small break between to allow for heating. Also, get an Oxygenics shower head which reduces flow to ~1.5 gal/min without reducing pressure or experience. These four things together should minimize the issues.

scrubjaysnest · 01-23-2014, 04:40 AM

Our friends have a cabin in WV with the smallest propane tank less water heater and the typical 12 volt RV pump for a shower set up. Works great in Oct. Its $130 here http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=667361
This is the unit I have been thinking about as a replacement for the existing water heater in the TM.

**Bill** · 01-23-2014, 10:16 AM

That looks like a nice unit. Far less expensive than I found at other sources. The only thing missing from the specs is what the incoming water temp must be in order to get the advertised temp out. If you get one, let us know how it works out. I am particularly interested in how well it maintains constant temperature - how much the temperature varies as you use it.

Bill

**ShrimpBurrito** · 01-23-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

That looks like a nice unit. Far less expensive than I found at other sources. The only thing missing from the specs is what the incoming water temp must be in order to get the advertised temp out. If you get one, let us know how it works out.

According to the manufacturer's website, the cheapest one on that website only offers a 30-35 degree rise at 1.3 GPM.

http://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l5-...-water-heater/

My tap water here in England is about 50 F, so even with a 35 degree rise, I wouldn't consider that even close to a hot shower. Furthermore, it's only at a flow rate of 1.3 GPM.

The next more expensive one offers the same rise, but at a faster 1.6 GPM rate. Presumably, you can get hotter water with a lower flow rate, but that info is not given.

http://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l7-...-water-heater/

Dave

**ShrimpBurrito** · 01-23-2014, 03:17 PM

Thinking more, I think tap water temp varies significantly with season. It's "winter" here, but daytime highs are in the low 50s, nighttime lows are in the low 30s. So obviously much warmer than much of the U.S. winters. But come summer time, when air temps are 70-85 F, tap water should be warmer....say 60-70 F. And in that case, those water heaters would probably just barely squeak out a hot shower, albeit at a very low flow rate.

So, for summer time camping, they might work ok.

Dave