please help! head is spinning. new to towing & the more I read the more unsure i am

[coralcrazed]

Originally Posted by brulaz

Does your air lift raise the whole vehicle, increasing the ground clearance and stiffness front as well as rear? It sounds like you have adjustable air shock absorbers on all four wheels. A very nice feature from what I've heard.

I was thinking of the air "pillows" I've seen, which are for the rear axle only and don't seem as useful.

The air lift 1000 I installed was for the rear axle only in my case. However, you could install them in the front also if you want. The air lift 1000 ARE IN FACT air "pillows" and in my case ONLY raise the back. In my case I do not have extream sag in the front. In fact the opposite is true, since my TV sags in the back BEFOR hitching up to the TM, the front axle will get raised up (not down) from the weight. they are super easy to install and took me less than 1/2 hour to do the entire job. I get around 1-1 1/2" of lift in the rear...at 5 - 35 psi. However, thats not the cool part. Its the handling that makes all of the diff. once the TM is hitched with the additional weight, going over a bump in the back was un-nerving. now it handles bumps, turns, stops, faster pickup starts without a problem.

Again if your TV is a truck and built for towing you may not need an air lift (air pillow) as your shocks and struts are built for towing and are stiffer to begin with. It all depends on your TV and should be considered on a case by case basis. If you understand shocks and strut technology and then learn the diff. between those shocks and struts in trucks and those in transport vehicles, than you will understand why you need Air "PILLOWS".

Think about this... air lift has developed these pillows from the begining (around 30 years ago) for racing vehicles. for racing you want stiff as hell suspention because the vehicle is already very very low to the ground. so handling tight curves at speed with stiffer suspention means you can handle tighter turns. the drawback is a rougher ride. I needed a slightly stifer and rougher ride in my case

Originally Posted by brulaz

Does your air lift raise the whole vehicle, increasing the ground clearance and stiffness front as well as rear? It sounds like you have adjustable air shock absorbers on all four wheels. A very nice feature from what I've heard.

I was thinking of the air "pillows" I've seen, which are for the rear axle only and don't seem as useful.

I've been using the OEM electronic auto leveling air-spring susp in a Toyota 4Runner (only available in the V8 model) for 7 years. I would not want to tow without it (spoiled). Unfortunately my 4Runner was totaled (no one got hurt) and when I wanted to replace it, the V8 and rear air susp was not available. This is why I have a GX now, it has the auto leveling and other susp options (KDSS and AVS systems) that make for a pleasant/easy tow experience. Between these systems I do not need WDH or sway control.

The auto leveling system has 4” of travel between three height settings (low, auto and high). When loading or washing the vehicle you use the low setting and when off-roading or forging water you use high. The auto setting is the normal mode that once he vehicle reaches 28mph the system defaults too. This setting is in the middle of the 4” travel (and levels the vehicle). No matter how much cargo or weight you put on the tongue the system keeps the vehicle and trailer level. It’s funny when someone gets out of the vehicle the system auto levels by letting air out. The system also helps with attaching and detaching the trailer to the TV with 4” of travel at the push of a button. Most times I can level the trailer front to back with it and then just lower the stabilizer jacks (with cordless drill). After jacks are down I can hit the button to lower the TV and just pull away without having to raise the electric tongue. It also allows you to adjust the approach and departure angle of the front and rear of the trailer (and rear of TV) by 4”. It doesn’t sound like much but it makes a big difference when maneuvering over a driveway or on some bad campground service roads/sites.

The KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Susp System) electronically controls the massive sway bars front and back. When off road the system can completely disengage the sway bars to allow for full susp articulation (keeps tire contact). When on road the computer will adjust the stiffness to keep the vehicle from leaning in the turns (almost no leaning at all).

The AVS (Adaptive Variable Susp) electronically controls the valving in the shock absorbers (dampening). The system has three settings (comfort, normal and sport). The sport setting really keeps the TV and trailer from sway and bounce on the highway. The comfort setting makes the ride really nice and smooth on slow bumpy roads (campground service roads).

Talk about being spoiled!

Pitbull

[coralcrazed]

That sounds like a nice system to have... but have to agree with yah, you sound a little spoiled

I put the air bags on my Tundra because I will usually take my ATV in the bed of the truck when towing the TM. I was not able to get the WDH to compensate for this heavy of a load and the trucks handling suffered badly.
The air bags did exactly as described above, improved the handling tremendously and removed my headlight beams from the tops of the trees.

I can also connect the WDH one link less and it is easier to connect the WDH for me. I'm, thinking that by lessening the tension on the WDH a link, I'm transfering less weight to the TM axle. Just my thinking though, I could be wrong.

Sounds like you're ready to hit the road Coralcrazed! Have Fun!

Pitbull:
That KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Susp System) almost sounds like a built-in, automatic weight distributing system. Truly impressive.

It seems there's quite a range of air suspension systems out there, from the simple rear axle air "pillows", to auto-leveling air shocks, to the KDSS.

coralcrazed: I was looking at beefing up the suspension of my Passat for towing a tent trailer. And I was leaning toward heavier shocks all around, and especially on the rear. How would you compare this option to pillows on the rear?

Eventually we decided to get the Taco+Elkmont instead.

Redhawk: sounds like your wdh tension bars were too weak. Most wdh manufacturers say to add the truck's payload to the trailer's tongue weight to get the bar size. Have you weighed your set up?

EDIT: But I agree you are probably transferring less weight to the trailer axle the way you are doing it.

[coralcrazed]

Originally Posted by brulaz

coralcrazed: I was looking at beefing up the suspension of my Passat for towing a tent trailer. And I was leaning toward heavier shocks all around, and especially on the rear. How would you compare this option to pillows on the rear?

towing with a Passat??? ok I guess... afterall, I'm towing with a mini-van lol

I don't consider myself an expert by any streatch of the imagination. However, I'm assuming that you are switching out the struts also when upgrading to "heavier shocks"...? Remember that the system works in tandem. are you having a problem with your current handleing? is this the reason you are switching the suspension system out? Air pillows should not be compared to or be used in replacement of a good functioning suspension system. air pillows just give you the ability to stiffen up the rear axle and customize your ride for towing. I think you misunderstand the diff. Hope that helps.

[T and C]

I used to tow a Coleman tent trailer behind a 94 Mercury Sable 3.8. Worked fine. I towed it to Big Bear which is at 7000 feet. In fact I gave it to one of my kids a while back, and it is still on the road with about 165,000 miles on the motor. It still has the original transmission.


Regarding air bags on trucks. I had air bags on my '96 F-150 to level and stabalize my truck camper. Worked great.

When I bought my 2010 F-150 I talked to the folks at Custom RV about air bags. They strongly recommended them for towing my 3023. They said that experience had shown that the extra load of the trailer over an extended period of time weakened the rear leaf springs and sometimes they would eventually break. So I put a set on. They will carry 100 psi but I usually have 45 psi in them when towing. Does the job.

Most modern p/u trucks, excluding pure work trucks, double as passenger vehicles. As a result they don't make the springs as strong as they could in order to get an improved ride. Hence, some extra support helps. If you have a F-250, Chevy 2500 or such, I suspect the springs are stiff enough.

Tom

Originally Posted by coralcrazed

towing with a Passat??? ok I guess... afterall, I'm towing with a mini-van lol .

My passat is insulted! With a 2L Diesel, 5 spd auto, disc brakes all around, Westfalia 5000# eurohitch, it was a great TV for our tent trailer. I would tow anything that didn't require its own brakes (up to 2500#?). But it's suspension could have been improved. A pic: Passat+Trailer

Before that we had a Pontiac Transport van with only a 3 spd auto. That poor tranny really had problems in the Rockies with the tent trailer but amazingly enough survived until the car was junked. The van did have auto-leveling air shocks in the rear that worked well.

I'm assuming that you are switching out the struts also when upgrading to "heavier shocks"...? Remember that the system works in tandem. are you having a problem with your current handleing? is this the reason you are switching the suspension system out? Air pillows should not be compared to or be used in replacement of a good functioning suspension system. air pillows just give you the ability to stiffen up the rear axle and customize your ride for towing. I think you misunderstand the diff. Hope that helps

Er, I think the guy I talked too was just quoting heavy duty shocks for the front and heavier duty shocks (with extra coil springs?) for the rear. A "matched set" I think, but it was quite a while ago. I do remember that it was more expensive than air pillows for the rear alone, so maybe that's why he was suggesting it?

And yes, the Passat's handling seemed less solid with the trailer; but I never weighed it to see how much weight was taken off the front wheels by the tent trailer.

With respect to pickups, many years ago I had an extra leaf put in each of my pickup's rear springs because of the sag from my camper. Worked fine, until the rear axle bearings blew. I should have put it on a scale first as it probably was way over its GAWR.

[T and C]

Originally Posted by brulaz

My passat is insulted! With a 2L Diesel, 5 spd auto, disc brakes all around, Westfalia 5000# eurohitch, it was a great TV for our tent trailer. I would tow anything that didn't require its own brakes (up to 2500#?). But it's suspension could have been improved. A pic: Passat+Trailer

Before that we had a Pontiac Transport van with only a 3 spd auto. That poor tranny really had problems in the Rockies with the tent trailer but amazingly enough survived until the car was junked. The van did have auto-leveling air shocks in the rear that worked well.




Er, I think the guy I talked too was just quoting heavy duty shocks for the front and heavier duty shocks (with extra coil springs?) for the rear. A "matched set" I think, but it was quite a while ago. I do remember that it was more expensive than air pillows for the rear alone, so maybe that's why he was suggesting it?

And yes, the Passat's handling seemed less solid with the trailer; but I never weighed it to see how much weight was taken off the front wheels by the tent trailer.

With respect to pickups, many years ago I had an extra leaf put in each of my pickup's rear springs because of the sag from my camper. Worked fine, until the rear axle bearings blew. I should have put it on a scale first as it probably was way over its GAWR.

Years ago, I had a 1961 Ford F-100 with a 3 row radiator, a limited slip rear end and a 4 speed trans with a granny low gear.

I bought an overhead camper which made it sag so much that the headlights shined up in the sky. So I ordered a set of big helper springs, about 3 leaves if I remember correctly, from the the Sears catalog. That solved any sagging or swaying problems.

However, one day in Oregon I got a flat on a rear tire. When I went to change it I discovered that my wheel had split, the innertube had protruded out the crack and the sharp edge had slit the innertube.

GAWR...what's that?? I had never even heard of it. We live, and (hopefully) we learn.

Tom