Questions about my new-to-me 2012 2417 Sport

[Pennidragon]

Hello! So I just purchased a 2012 2417 Sport recently. Took it on our first one night trip for a trial run and encountered some issues that wanted to check if you guys can help me out with. Was at a full hook up site.

-My wife tried to use an Instant Pot to cook and I tried to use my CPAP machine at night. The Instant Pot would turn on but didn't seem to run correctly, it took forever to cook. My CPAP machine gave me an error that the power supply was not correct. I assumed if I am hooked up I should be able to run all electrical things normally? Everything else worked but those two things didn't...wonder if we get less power from the outlets in the TM or maybe something is wrong with the electrical system?

-We had some plumbing issue...I'm hoping this is an easy fix. I noticed the water wouldn't drain in both the sink and shower. The TM was leveled. I tried opening the gray tank and everything flushed out and drained quickly. I closed it up and tried it again and the water again wouldn't drain. It was annoying I had to keep closing/opening the gray tank. I didn't want to keep the tank open continuously to prevent smell or in case of back up from the sewage. Anyone experience this or know what might be causing it?

-I got the water heater turned on and after a bit of time, only hot water would come out from the sink faucet. And it was really hot water. I had to bring cold water from the shower to mix it in so I could do dishes/wash hands etc. I had to shut the heater off as soon as we showered the kids and after a bit of time the cold water returned. I assume a new faucet needs to go in...these things go for like $160-180 a piece and it seems real tight in space back there. Any feedback on what might fix it or just needs a new faucet?

-I'm towing with an Odyssey, with a EAZ WDH rated at 600lbs tongue and a Curt Echo brake controller. While driving it is mostly smooth, but in bumpy/poor roads I'm getting a lot of pushing/pulling on the car, even some up and down movement. It is really obvious, my kids were laughing at the back thinking it was a lot of fun...When I'm braking as well I can feel that push/pull sensation too. I'm assuming this is not normal as I asked another TM owner who pulled with an Ody and had no such experience. I played with the setting of the controller both on max output and sensitivity and didn't really see any difference. Any ideas on what might be going on?

Any feedback would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[BaconLover]

I don't know the answers to your other questions, but we just experienced something similar with towing our new TM as well. It was "porpoising" up and down and felt jerky. It turned out that the tongue was too high at the hitch and the back was low. Our Andersen WDH instructions specify that you want the trailer to be level, not slanted in anyway. Once we made the trailer more level and the hitch height lower, all of those problems went away.

You have to make sure your WDH is adjusted properly - that took some doing. My husband had to try different heights and take the WDH on and off, but he finally found the right combination that minimized up and down and sway. Pulls really nicely now! That WDH setup is like voodoo magic - sooo much to consider and mess around with! Good luck!

[Bill]

Sounds like you have a number of things going on. I'll try to add some comments, but many members will have better answers than I. To get you started -

BaconLover's comment about trailer leveling is a good one. And there are some associated thoughts that may help.

You might check this article from Good Sam, which seems pretty good.
https://blog.goodsam.com/porpoising-...ow-to-stop-it/

I doubt that the brake controller is involved unless the wireless link is just on the edge of losing its connection. The Curt unit is a proportional controller, which is good. You might try (carefully) turning off the controller for a few miles, to see if anything changes.

It also sounds like you may have loaded the trailer too heavy in the back. The trailer's hitch weight should be 10% of the total trailer weight at an absolute minimum. TMs are built to run with a heavier hitch weight - 14% is typical. So if your loaded trailer weighs 3600 pounds, the hitch weight should be around 450-500 pounds. In other words, 3 or 4 strong people should not be able to lift it. If the hitch weight is too light, the common result is trailer sway, but porpoising can happen, too.

Another common cause of porpoising is older concrete roads. Unlike asphalt, concrete roads were usually laid as a series of slabs, and as the concrete settles and cures, the center of the slab settles more than the ends. The result is an up-and-down bounce as you go over the joints, and at certain speeds, the bounce happens at a resonant speed of your rig. A good test is to find an asphalt road, and see if that changes things. Or, on a troublesome road, change your speed by 10-15 mph, and see if the problem changes.

You have a rather heavy vehicle and a rather light trailer, usually a good combo. In this situation, you probably don't need a WDH. And as Bacon Lover mentioned, a misadjusted WDH can cause weird things to happen. Once you get your rig leveled, setting up your WDH to the right tension is not complicated. Make sure it isn't lifting too much.

Take a look at these two articles in the TrailManor Technical Library.
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=2922
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=2616

Are the shocks on your truck good? How long (miles) since they have been replaced? On a bigger truck, you may not notice when shocks start going bad.

Do you have air shocks on the truck? If so, can you defeat them?

I hope some of this will help. Let us know.

Bill

[rickst29]

It sounds like your (maybe default) Echo settings are causing it to over-react: adjusting braking power (Voltage) by too much at a time. If that guess is right, then:

When it "feels" that you're not slowing down fast enough for your TV brake pedal position, then it raises the trailer brake power by too much - and you feel the Sienna being dragged back into the Trailer. (With your "submarine" effect being caused by your hitch being a bit out of line, or your WDH being mis-adjusted, or both factors).

Then a moment later, it feels that you are being slowed down too FAST for your brake pedal position - and it drops the Trailer Brake voltage down by too much, the Trailer pushes into the Sienna - and the opposite bounce effect occurs (again because the hitch ball height isn't lined up LEVEL with the TM A-frame ball receiver, or because WDH is mis-adjusted).
- - -
These 'submarine' effects are dangerous, you probably also need to change your WDH head height. The hitch ball, in the Odyssey hitch receiver and WDH head, needs to within an inch of "level" with the bottom of the hitch ball receiver on the TM A-frame ... with that A-frame, and the entire TM, perfectly level (held up by the trailer's A-frame jack). That might require either some "lift", or some "drop" of the ball mount position on the ball mount of the WHD hitch head.

Then, on a level segment of a parking lot or residential roadway parking space, measure the highest point on each of the 4 Odyssey wheel wells to the pavement, before attaching the TM. Latch in the hitch ball and drop release the TM hitch jack, and adjust the WDH so that each of those Sienna wheel wells has dropped by the same amount of distance (closer to the street surface). That's how you tune the WDH force.
- - -
There should be an ability to vary the "sensitivity" of your Controller, and reduce the amount of voltage change which is being made by the accelerometer changes. On my older Prodigy P3, there is a dial (along the top surface) to adjust the trailer brake strength (Voltage increment "curve") versus the pedal position sensor, and the cellphone App for your Curt might have the same feature - somewhere.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Pennidragon

-My wife tried to use an Instant Pot to cook and I tried to use my CPAP machine at night. The Instant Pot would turn on but didn't seem to run correctly, it took forever to cook. My CPAP machine gave me an error that the power supply was not correct. I assumed if I am hooked up I should be able to run all electrical things normally? Everything else worked but those two things didn't...wonder if we get less power from the outlets in the TM or maybe something is wrong with the electrical system?

You definitely have an electrical problem, and it needs to be addressed. Both the Hot Pot and the CPAP operate on 120 VAC, so you need to troubleshoot that system. First question - did the big black electrical plug that you plug into the campground power post ever feel warm-to-hot?

Now you need to get two things. First thing to get is one of the little three-light electrical testers - less than $10 almost anywhere. It will look something like this picture, but probably not exactly. The important things are that it plugs in, it has three lights, it has a little chart that tells you what the lights should read, and what it means if they aren't correct. Let us know what it tells you.
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...&pictureid=452

The second thing you will almost certainly need is a voltmeter. Assuming you don't have one and don't really want one, you can get an inexpensive digital voltmeter/multimeter/multitester in any hardware store or big box store. Assuming you are not comfortable with electricity - and I assume you are not - be careful! Or find someone who is comfortable to help you out. Set the meter to AC Volts, and plug the probes into the two rectangular slots in any outlet. It should be somewhere in the range of 110 volts-125 volts (which is plenty 'nuff to give you a serious shock). If the reading is right, plug in the Hot Pot and measure again. It sounds like it will read low. Let us know.

I'm assuming that you are no longer in the campground where this happened? You can plug your trailer in at home by getting a 30-amp-female-to-20-amp-male adaptor. Here is a cheap hockey-puck style from WalMart (enter 579849092 in the Walmart search box), or they have a number of cord-style units.

Once you have done this, try the hot pot and voltmeter test again.

We'll go from there. For what it's worth, the problem sounds like it might be what is called an "open-neutral" at the campground power post. You don't need to know what this is, just that it is dangerous. If your trailer works OK at home, that would tend to say (not guarantee) that I am right. Again, let us know.

Bill

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Pennidragon

I got the water heater turned on and after a bit of time, only hot water would come out from the sink faucet. And it was really hot water. I had to bring cold water from the shower to mix it in so I could do dishes/wash hands etc. I had to shut the heater off as soon as we showered the kids and after a bit of time the cold water returned. I assume a new faucet needs to go in...these things go for like $160-180 a piece and it seems real tight in space back there. Any feedback on what might fix it or just needs a new faucet?

This doesn't sound too hard. First, the hot water is supposed to be REALLY HOT, so don't let that disturb you. It is not adjustable.

You were successful at heating water. Did you use electric or gas to do it?

Let me confirm that you are getting cold water out of the shower faucet and the bathroom sink faucet. It is only the kitchen faucet that is fighting you. If this is the case, it almost certainly means that there is grit trapped in the faucet, and you need to clean it out. Disconnect the water supply hose coming into the TM from the campground or house spigot, and make sure the TM's water pump is off. You want zero pressure in the system. Next, TM has used a number of faucets over the years, so the following is generic. Remove the handle from the cold water faucet. It is probably held on with a single screw. Now your are looking at the "core" of the faucet - this is the part that shuts the water off and on when you turn the knob. You need to remove the core. It should be apparent how to do it - it probably screws in somehow. When you have figured out how to release or unscrew it, pull the core straight up and out of the faucet. Rinse it off in your home sink. Now put a heavy towel over the top of the faucet, and turn on the water supply for two seconds or so. Water will gush out of the top of the faucet and get caught in the towel. The water will carry the grit out, to be caught in the towel. You should be able to see it. Do it once more to be sure, then reassemble.

In the unlikely event that no water comes out of the faucet, you have a problem somewhere a bit upstream. In this case, follow the cold water pipe from the faucet until it comes to a tee fitting. Look for things like a valve that is turned off (TM didn't put in such a valve, but another owner might have), or a kink in a piece of flexible pipe (again, TM didn't use flex pipe, but another owner might have put some in).

Let us know.

Bill

[Pennidragon]

Originally Posted by BaconLover

I don't know the answers to your other questions, but we just experienced something similar with towing our new TM as well. It was "porpoising" up and down and felt jerky. It turned out that the tongue was too high at the hitch and the back was low. Our Andersen WDH instructions specify that you want the trailer to be level, not slanted in anyway. Once we made the trailer more level and the hitch height lower, all of those problems went away.

You have to make sure your WDH is adjusted properly - that took some doing. My husband had to try different heights and take the WDH on and off, but he finally found the right combination that minimized up and down and sway. Pulls really nicely now! That WDH setup is like voodoo magic - sooo much to consider and mess around with! Good luck!

Thanks for the input! I'm pretty sure I had the TM leveled once I set it up. The dealer I bought it from actually installed everything, including the hitch, harness, WDH, setting up the WDH, etc. I'll play around with the heights and see if it improves the ride.

[Pennidragon]

Originally Posted by Bill

Sounds like you have a number of things going on. I'll try to add some comments, but many members will have better answers than I. To get you started -

BaconLover's comment about trailer leveling is a good one. And there are some associated thoughts that may help.

You might check this article from Good Sam, which seems pretty good.
https://blog.goodsam.com/porpoising-...ow-to-stop-it/

I doubt that the brake controller is involved unless the wireless link is just on the edge of losing its connection. The Curt unit is a proportional controller, which is good. You might try (carefully) turning off the controller for a few miles, to see if anything changes.

It also sounds like you may have loaded the trailer too heavy in the back. The trailer's hitch weight should be 10% of the total trailer weight at an absolute minimum. TMs are built to run with a heavier hitch weight - 14% is typical. So if your loaded trailer weighs 3600 pounds, the hitch weight should be around 450-500 pounds. In other words, 3 or 4 strong people should not be able to lift it. If the hitch weight is too light, the common result is trailer sway, but porpoising can happen, too.

Another common cause of porpoising is older concrete roads. Unlike asphalt, concrete roads were usually laid as a series of slabs, and as the concrete settles and cures, the center of the slab settles more than the ends. The result is an up-and-down bounce as you go over the joints, and at certain speeds, the bounce happens at a resonant speed of your rig. A good test is to find an asphalt road, and see if that changes things. Or, on a troublesome road, change your speed by 10-15 mph, and see if the problem changes.

You have a rather heavy vehicle and a rather light trailer, usually a good combo. In this situation, you probably don't need a WDH. And as Bacon Lover mentioned, a misadjusted WDH can cause weird things to happen. Once you get your rig leveled, setting up your WDH to the right tension is not complicated. Make sure it isn't lifting too much.

Take a look at these two articles in the TrailManor Technical Library.
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=2922
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=2616

Are the shocks on your truck good? How long (miles) since they have been replaced? On a bigger truck, you may not notice when shocks start going bad.

Do you have air shocks on the truck? If so, can you defeat them?

I hope some of this will help. Let us know.

Bill

I was thinking maybe the weight was playing a role. I do need to find the time to go to a CAT scale and get a good measurement on everything. It was a one night trip so honestly I don't think we loaded a lot of stuff, but really without having a baseline # of the TM's weight can't really figure it out.

I'm actually towing with a minivan, Honda Odyssey. It does need the WDH...without it the bottom of the hitch is very close to the ground!

[Pennidragon]

Originally Posted by Bill

You definitely have an electrical problem, and it needs to be addressed. Both the Hot Pot and the CPAP operate on 120 VAC, so you need to troubleshoot that system. First question - did the big black electrical plug that you plug into the campground power post ever feel warm-to-hot?

Now you need to get two things. First thing to get is one of the little three-light electrical testers - less than $10 almost anywhere. It will look something like this picture, but probably not exactly. The important things are that it plugs in, it has three lights, it has a little chart that tells you what the lights should read, and what it means if they aren't correct. Let us know what it tells you.
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...&pictureid=452

The second thing you will almost certainly need is a voltmeter. Assuming you don't have one and don't really want one, you can get an inexpensive digital voltmeter/multimeter/multitester in any hardware store or big box store. Assuming you are not comfortable with electricity - and I assume you are not - be careful! Or find someone who is comfortable to help you out. Set the meter to AC Volts, and plug the probes into the two rectangular slots in any outlet. It should be somewhere in the range of 110 volts-125 volts (which is plenty 'nuff to give you a serious shock). If the reading is right, plug in the Hot Pot and measure again. It sounds like it will read low. Let us know.

I'm assuming that you are no longer in the campground where this happened? You can plug your trailer in at home by getting a 30-amp-female-to-20-amp-male adaptor. Here is a cheap hockey-puck style from WalMart (enter 579849092 in the Walmart search box), or they have a number of cord-style units.

Once you have done this, try the hot pot and voltmeter test again.

We'll go from there. For what it's worth, the problem sounds like it might be what is called an "open-neutral" at the campground power post. You don't need to know what this is, just that it is dangerous. If your trailer works OK at home, that would tend to say (not guarantee) that I am right. Again, let us know.

Bill

Thanks for this Bill! I do have a GFCI outlet tester and voltmeter. I have two 50AMP outlets in the garage so I actually bought a 50AMP to 30AMP converter. I have the TM parked in the garage right now I'm going to bring it out on Thurs afternoon and give this a try will let you know what I get! Hopefully its the campground issue and not the TM!

[Pennidragon]

Originally Posted by Bill

This doesn't sound too hard. First, the hot water is supposed to be REALLY HOT, so don't let that disturb you. It is not adjustable.

You were successful at heating water. Did you use electric or gas to do it?

Let me confirm that you are getting cold water out of the shower faucet and the bathroom sink faucet. It is only the kitchen faucet that is fighting you. If this is the case, it almost certainly means that there is grit trapped in the faucet, and you need to clean it out. Disconnect the water supply hose coming into the TM from the campground or house spigot, and make sure the TM's water pump is off. You want zero pressure in the system. Next, TM has used a number of faucets over the years, so the following is generic. Remove the handle from the cold water faucet. It is probably held on with a single screw. Now your are looking at the "core" of the faucet - this is the part that shuts the water off and on when you turn the knob. You need to remove the core. It should be apparent how to do it - it probably screws in somehow. When you have figured out how to release or unscrew it, pull the core straight up and out of the faucet. Rinse it off in your home sink. Now put a heavy towel over the top of the faucet, and turn on the water supply for two seconds or so. Water will gush out of the top of the faucet and get caught in the towel. The water will carry the grit out, to be caught in the towel. You should be able to see it. Do it once more to be sure, then reassemble.

In the unlikely event that no water comes out of the faucet, you have a problem somewhere a bit upstream. In this case, follow the cold water pipe from the faucet until it comes to a tee fitting. Look for things like a valve that is turned off (TM didn't put in such a valve, but another owner might have), or a kink in a piece of flexible pipe (again, TM didn't use flex pipe, but another owner might have put some in).

Let us know.

Bill

Yep cold water and hot water was coming out correctly both in the shower and the outside shower. Just the sink was getting hot water only. My water heater I believe only has gas option, at least that's what I think. I have to light up the pilot on the outside manually and there's really no other options that I see on it.

I attached a pic of how my faucet looks like. I'll try to figure out if I can get that handle to come off. Will have to wait till Thurs when I have time to get the TM out of the garage.