More Marathon tire failures

Originally Posted by Freedom

I believe that some of the older TMs (early 1990s) even had 13 in tires. I seem to remember looking at one that did and I didn't consider buying it because of the overloaded tires.

Do you know if these earlier TrailManors were of the approximate weight as the ones produced now? I haven't read enough yet, or been a TM owner long enough, to know the actual evolutions of the TM trailers thru the years.

We looked at an older trailer at Auburn RV in Auburn, Wa a long time ago. We had stopped to look at new ones but they had a used one on their lot that we looked at. I didn't know much about TMs then, so I don't know what model it was - all I remember is that I looked at the weight on the tag and then looked at the tires and it was almost over weight without adding anything. The salesman said something to the effect that they (TM) knew it was a poor combination and that the newer ones had larger tires. I lost all interest in that TM when I saw the weight limit on the tires. 2BCS1JRT (Cheri) on this forum has a 1996 2518 and mentioned getting bigger tires and a lift kit. She could tell you a lot more than I can. Look at this link 7th post down: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...highlight=2518

So is it safe to assume that the vast overall majority of Trailmanor owners who frequent this forum are either running 14 or 15 inch diameter tires?

I do sell a bias 6 ply B78-13 (equivalent to a 175/80D13) trailer tire. Finding a company who makes a radial tire in a 13 inch, along with 215/75R14, 225/75R15 may be a reach.........at least for our test purposes.

One of the test volunteers stated they were running Marathon 205/75R14's. Was this ever an OE size, or should I assume their trailer possibly either downsized from a 215 or upsized from a 13 inch tire.

EDIT: I haven't really climbed under my 3023 yet and checked tire clearance. I have 225/75R15's on it now: and will probably go back with them. If I had another easy 1/2 inch clearance (counting how much the trailer will move up and down) I might consider hard about putting 10 ply Hankook 225/75R16's on it. Finding the 5 hole pattern wheel (that also has the thicker bead seating area that a 16LT truck tire has) may be the nail in the coffin for that idea though. Most 16 inch wheels are 6 or 8 bolt hole.

http://www.hankooktireusa.com/product/RH03-LT.pdf

EDIT EDIT: I guess I really should check out my TrailManor more. I do have 6 hole wheels on it with the 15 inch tires, so upsizing to 16"s is a possibility. I couldn't see exactly how much clearance I had without pulling the skirts off. I'll do that tomorrow, but it didn't look like I had much.

Oh Yeah, where did that rear storage compartment on the driver side come from? I was wishing real hard I had more storage than just in the rear bumber, and wo-lah.....there it is. Has that always been there?

[Bill]

If you need more fore-and-aft clearance, that may be tough to get. If you need more side-to-side clearance, that might be even tougher. But if you need more up-and-down clearance, that's easy. The wheel well liner is a single piece of formed plastic, screwed to the floor inside the cabinets. Just remove it, screw a frame of 1x2 pine to the floor around the opening, and screw the liner back down on top of the frame.

Bill

[fcatwo]

My impression is that it's primarily the 14" Marathons that have been failing on the smaller TMs and not the 15s on the slightly larger units-- but I could be wrong.

[RickNewcomb]

Originally Posted by Bill

...TM abandoned Carlisles some years ago due to excessive failure rate - the Marathon was considered a big step up. I'm not sure when the changeover happened, but when I bought my 2002 2720SL, it came with Marathons. At that time, though, there was still considerable discussion of the Carlisle problem, so the changeover must have happened no more than 3 or 4 years before that.

Bill

Just an FYI...

The changeover occurred in 1999, the year I bought my TM. Some 1999's came with Carlisle, mine came with Marathons. I took delivery on May 1st.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Bill

Frank mentioned Frank -

Have you done this? Will they fit? I think this is the most sensible solution, but two Goodyear dealers have peered into the wheel well and told me they won't fit. Experiences, please! If you've already told the story, please shoot me a link!
<snip>
Bill

Being as how my OEM Marathons had seen 5 towing seasons and were over 5 years old (made in November 01), this week I went out and bought a pair of Nankang LoadMax trailer tires (ST) in the 225/75R15 size ("D" Load Rating) and had them mounted on 5 bolt 15X7 rims with the 4.5 inch bolt circle. While I was at it I had them installed with metal valve stems.

Why Nankang you may be asking. Well...the manager of the local Tire World store (it's a local chain, methinks) is a friend who also owns a '96 TM and an '03 Tundra. What a Co-inky-dink. And he's also a very good friend of one my longest term software clients. With that relationship as the foundation for an honest, straight deal, he told me that he's had excellent results from Nankang trailer tires (on travel trailers and the utility trailers used by local landscapers). Furthermore, that would be the tire he would mount on his own TM. Done deal, I'm thinking...especially since he sold the tires to me for only $73 each (found an eBay listing for 205/75R15 Nankang Loadmax trailer tire that had a buy now price of $169 so I'm thinking I got a pretty decent deal).

Yesterday afternoon (Sunday) I tried to install them.

They do fit...sort of. As a reminder, my 2720SL TM still has the OEM 3500 lb axle and it has the factory installed lift kit. After installing these tires, I checked clearance on all sides and here's what I found:

• As expected, these tires do have roughly a 3/4 inch larger radius and 3/4 inch larger width than the stock (215/75R14) tire.
• Clearance above the tire: Although the trailer is currently empty for winter storage, there was about 3 ~4 inches of static clearance between the top of the tire and the inside bottom of the wheel liner. I seriously doubt the suspension has that much travel so clearance above the tire is not likely to be a problem. Especially considering the 3/4 in smaller radius stock tire has apparently no clearance issues even without the 2 inch lift kit!
• Clearance between the inner sidewall and the inside of the wheelbox liner: around 2 inches. No problem.
• Clearance behind the tire...between it and and a lateral frame piece: about 1 inch at a minimum. No problem here.
• Clearance in front of the tire: About 2 inches at a minimum. No problem at all.
• Clearance between the outer sidewall and the removable fender skirt: Zero; the ~3/8 inch deep stiffening ridge on the inside of the fender skirt was lightly pressing against the sidewall. Big problem.

Sooo, the 2 Goodyear dealers were right. Sorta. When I laid a straight edge across the wheel well opening, I determined the outermost part of the tire sidewall was recessed roughly 5/16 inch inside the wheel well opening. Not enough to clear the ridge on the OEM fender skirt but still inset enough that the opening could be safely closed off so the lower shell's bottom seal could press against a solid surface.

I first attempted to alleviate the problem by thoroughly warming up the fender skirt with my trusty heat gun and then flattening out the ridge. That actually worked...until the plastic cooled down and the skirt warped itself back against the tire. grrrrrr

So then I did the brute force thing...I got out my snips and cut out about 2 inches of the bottom of the fender skirt (up to about where the skirts indentation started)...I started each cutout roughly 2 inches in from each end of the bottom of the skirts. That solved the clearance problem but introduced a new issue: the bottom seal of the rear shell is only about 1 inch tall...leaving a roughly 1 inch wide opening. Which means a trip down a wet road is going to produce a heckuva lot of spray on the lower shell walls....right about where the bathroom is on the street side.

Unfortunately I ran out of day before I could try another fix. When I pull the trailer out again in about 2 weeks, I'm going to try riveting some stiff sheet metal to the outside of the fender skirt so that it covers my newly created gap and provides something for the seal to press against. I've still got some UHMW tape so will apply some of that to cover the seam and rivet heads and make it easy for the lower shell seal to slide down. Since the sheet metal is flat and will be on the outside of the skirt, there shouldn't be any tire clearance issues...I'm expecting to see around 5/16 inch. Just in case, I'll put some of the UHMW tape on the tire side of the sheet metal as well.

Will let everyone know how my modified fender skirt works out.

[fcatwo]

I found the same thing Ray. I just went out and ran my hand between the skirt and a 14" Marathon and there was so little room my hand touched both front and back. There is no more than 1/2" clearance between the 14" tire and skirt. I have to wonder how TrailManor is putting 5000lb axles and 15" tires on some of the smaller trailers -- or the larger ones for that matter as they are all listed as the same width. Rims with different offset perhaps? Then again, 15" Marathons are only 0.3" wider than 14s according to Goodyear's specs (8.5" vs 8.8") and half of that should not use up the whole 1/2" clearance. Maybe your new tires are wider/bigger than 15" Marathons or the new rims are slightly different?

[Bill]

Originally Posted by fcatwo

Rims with different offset perhaps?

That would be my guess, too. We need to find rims with an offset that will center the tire in the well. A good tire shop should be able to do this, I would think. Ray, have you been back to your friend the tire dealer? Or for that matter, a call to the TM factory might yield the needed info. As Frank notes, the factory installs 15" wheels and tires on some TMs, using the same wheel well liner as they use on the 14" models. I suppose the axle length could be different ...

Anyway, it would seem to me (and this thought is the result of NO expertise!) that if you have 2" of clearance on the inside of the tire, you shouldn't have to muck with the fender cover. Wmtire, your thoughts?

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

That would be my guess, too. We need to find rims with an offset that will center the tire in the well. A good tire shop should be able to do this, I would think. Ray, have you been back to your friend the tire dealer? Or for that matter, a call to the TM factory might yield the needed info. As Frank notes, the factory installs 15" wheels and tires on some TMs, using the same wheel well liner as they use on the 14" models. I suppose the axle length could be different ...

Anyway, it would seem to me (and this thought is the result of NO expertise!) that if you have 2" of clearance on the inside of the tire, you shouldn't have to muck with the fender cover. Wmtire, your thoughts?

Bill

Well, coming in on the backside of the conversation, I had to read everything to catch up.

Yeah, I would say, if you can find the rims with a different offset, that will make your tires center into the wheelwell more, then you shouldn't have to make any modifications to your fender skirt. 2" of free space to the inside should allow for this, fairly easy.

I am also looking and learning on the way the Trailmanors are made. Just looking at the floor plans, it seems to me that the only differences in all but the biggest double axle trailer, is lengths fore and aft of the kitchens. I am assuming that the axle placements are in the same location for all but the double axle model. I keep hearing of the lift kit (either factory or retrofit). To save some time trying to find it on the forums, can someone explain exactly what/why this was.(or at least link me to the forum) Here again, my assumption is you needed to LIFT it to put bigger tires.....either to raise the clearance of the TM or for load carrying capabilities for the trailer/tires....or both.

I can't tell everyone how much I appreciate these forums and the members who comprise it. I have learned so much about my trailer, without ever have taken it camping yet.