Batteries not charging!!

Hi there! Have read previous posts about battery problems, but ours seems a bit different--not only do the batteries rapidly discharge, but they do not take a charge from shore power or from the TV..

We have checked to make sure that the fridge is off, even have disassembled the bathroom (to cut off power to the rear of the TM) but still have a draw coming from the TM when we test amperage...

The TM works fine when plugged into the running TV or when plugged into shore power.. So--we thought that one or more of the batteries were bad..indeed, a battery was bad (we have two deep cycle batteries in series) so we replaced it and all was well until we plugged the TM into the TV and drive home--all was dead.

Help!!

Thank you,
Randy and CIndy

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=beartoothpaddler link=board=2;threadid=1977;start=msg13948#msg13948 date=1086154394]
Hi there! Have read previous posts about battery problems, but ours seems a bit different--not only do the batteries rapidly discharge, but they do not take a charge from shore power or from the TV..

We have checked to make sure that the fridge is off, even have disassembled the bathroom (to cut off power to the rear of the TM) but still have a draw coming from the TM when we test amperage...

The TM works fine when plugged into the running TV or when plugged into shore power.. So--we thought that one or more of the batteries were bad..indeed, a battery was bad (we have two deep cycle batteries in series) so we replaced it and all was well until we plugged the TM into the TV and drive home--all was dead.

Help!!

Thank you,
Randy and CIndy
[/quote]

Hmmmmm...it sounds like you have a pretty decent grasp of electrical fundamentals and know something about measuring DC current. Obviously if you have a battery drain...and that drain isn't one of the normal places like the fridge on DC, then you have a problem that needs to be diagnosed ASAP. For one thing, if you're getting enough drain to flatten the bigger 6V batteries, you're most likely getting heat generated somewhere where it shouldn't be getting generated.

My gut feeling is that something has gone wrong in the AC/DC converter section of your TM's 6300 Converter. But first things first...with your TM's batteries fairly well charged up (use an external battery charger with the batteries disconnected from the TM's wiring to do this), use an ammeter to get an exact measurement of the current that flows from the batteries into the TM when all known devices (e.g. refer) within the TM are turned off. There will normally be a very small parasitic drain (e.g. for the smoke detector) but that drain should not exceed a few hundred milliamps. If your drain is in the multiple amps range (as I suspect it is), then it's time to open up your converter panel. Before you do major surgery, you might want to pull each of the fuses there in turn and see if removing any of those stop your battery drain. If removing fuses doesn't do the trick (and I'm guessing it won't), then you'll need to get a circuit diagram of the 6300 and disconnect the wires off the converter section (be sure to disconnect the battery first and also make sure that shore power is not connected). Then, reconnect the TM battery and do another amperage check. If there is no longer a drain, you've found your culprit and the easiest thing to do is replace the converter.

Should a converter replacement be necessary, I strongly recommend you don't replace it with another 6300 but rather the better (though pricier 7300). Among other advantages of the 7300 over the 6300 is (1) a 3 stage battery charger and (2) much cleaner DC (no AC ripple).

[Bill]

'Nuther possibility. Last fall, our tow vehicle was rear ended. Most of the impact was taken by the hitch receiver, which was bent around kinda sideways. In the process, the Bargman connector was destroyed. Part of the repair process was to replace it. Since then, I have been fighting a problem which is at least similar to yours. In our case, the converter charges the battery very nicely when we have shore power, so after staying in a campground overnight, we start the morning with a topped up battery. Plug in the tow vehicle, drive for six hours, and the battery is flat. However, the TM "works", as you said, when hitched to the tow vehicle, even with the TM battery disconnected. So clearly tow vehicle power is reaching the TM.

I have traced the problem to a high resistance in the new Bargman connector. ("High resistance" means about 0.15 ohms in the charge line.) Now I gotta go fight with the body shop - six months later. Wish me luck.

I diagnosed this problem in three steps.
1. Disconnect the TM battery, and turn the refrig to DC. Plug the TM into the tow vehicle and start the engine. With the refrig running, the TM draws about 10-amps from the tow vehicle charge line.
2. Measure the voltage at the tow vehicle battery, and again at the TM's 12-volt distribution point under the sink. My readings were 13.9 volts at the tow vehicle battery, and 12.4 volts under the sink. In other words, there is a 1.5-volt drop somewhere in the circuit. Way too much!
3. Measure the voltage at the Bargman connector. It measured 12.8 volts. Most of the voltage drop is in the tow vehicle part of the circuit, not the TM part.

At that point, I disassembled the tow vehicle's Bargman, and found a couple points of high resistance.

So why does the battery die, even when the TM "works"? As we are driving down the road, the 12.4 volts available from the TV is insufficient to charge the battery. In fact, since the TM battery starts the day at well over 13 volts, it actually provides most of the 10 amps that the refrig draws. By the end of the day, it is close to dead.

You might consider making these measurements as well, as an aid in determining where the problem is. If you need the schematic for the converter (and assuming you've had experience reading schematics and working with household electric power voltages), contact me off list. And if you need help measuring voltge at the Bargman, let me know.

Bill

Ray-
Thanks for the info--it was also our guess that the converter was shot as all else was well. Intersetingly, when I checked the amperage coming from the trailer with the bathroom wall up, it was higher than when I folded it down. It is my hope that it is as simple as replacing the converter unit. One never knows as we have purchased this 3124King used.

The replacement of the converter leads me to another question. I fully agree that the 7300 upgrade is a better idea however, am a bit confused on the options. Camping World offers both the Solid State Upgrade Section and the converter section--which do I need??

You've no idea how much we appreciate the help--you all are wonderful!

Cindy ;D

Cindy,

I replaced our factory converter with the 7300 upgrade last year. Here is the unit I purchased from CW:

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...38&src=TSC

The upgrade is not particularly difficult to install. I suggest taking your time if you decide to go it yourself. If you aren't somewhat comfortable working with electronics be safe and let an expert do it. Good luck.

Wade

[Caver]

Here is another source for the converter and upgrade:

http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/cata...s/item1304.htm

My TM uses the 7345 which means it's rated for 45 amps. Parallax also makes a 55 amp model which is the same size. I haven't noticed any radio interference with the 7345. I specifically requested this converter on my order. I don't think they make the 6300 anymore.

Given the resistance of your Bargeman connector the refrigerator could easily run down the battery in less than 8 hours.

The refrigerator manual says to only operate the refrigerator on DC with the TV engine running! I don't expect many of will pay much attention to that warning.

Ray

[Bill]

RockyMtnRay wrote:

Should a converter replacement be necessary, I strongly recommend you don't replace it with another 6300 but rather the better (though pricier 7300). Among other advantages of the 7300 over the 6300 is (1) a 3 stage battery charger and (2) much cleaner DC (no AC ripple).

The 7300 series DOES have cleaner filtered DC power output than the old 6300 series. Unfortunately it DOES NOT have a 3-stage charger. It has the same 2-stage charger that the 6300-series converters had. Thus any long-term overcharge considerations have not been mitigated.

There is no question that a two-stage charger is a lot better than a single-stage garage-type charger. It does taper off the charge current as the battery approaches 14 volts, and this is very important. But the third stage is missing.

This becomes an issue only in long-term storage situations. For a week or two, there is probably nothing wrong with leaving a two-stage charger connected. But in my opinion and experience, if you are going to put your TM away for a long time - say, over the winter - you are better off to fully charge the battery and then disconnect it, rather than "floating" it with the Magnetek/Parallax converter.

I'll see if I can locate some of my old links on battery charging. In the meantime, http://www.parallaxpower.com/7300/7300pwrcntr.pdf clearly shows the two-step charger.

Bill

[Cateye]

Here is the battery charger I use for long term (over 2wks) storage. It works great and is waterproof ($60)

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...amp;hasJS=true

[Bill]

Cateye -

Had some trouble with the link - this forum doesn't handle those super-long links very well. However, I think you were talking about the ProMariner Pro-Mite chargers. If so, it can be found by going to
http://www.cabelas.com
and entering IE-016548 in the "Item Number" box.

Here is the one I use.
http://www.marinco2.com/showProduct.asp?p=2610
http://www.marinco2.com/pdf_files/Gu...y_chargers.pdf
Three-stage 10-amp charger, small, waterproof, and not overly expensive ($110 list, I bought mine brand new for about $60 on eBay). I mounted it right beside the battery.

As both of our links suggest, the folks who really know about this stuff are the boat people - especially the ones who use electric trolling motors. They use deep-cycle batteries (like we do), they use their boats only occasionally (like we do), they want their batteries to be fully charged when they are ready to go (like we do), and they don't want the batteries to overcharge in the time between uses (like we do).

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=Bill link=board=2;threadid=1977;start=msg13993#msg13993 date=1086272263]
RockyMtnRay wrote:

Should a converter replacement be necessary, I strongly recommend you don't replace it with another 6300 but rather the better (though pricier 7300). Among other advantages of the 7300 over the 6300 is (1) a 3 stage battery charger and (2) much cleaner DC (no AC ripple).

The 7300 series DOES have cleaner filtered DC power output than the old 6300 series. Unfortunately it DOES NOT have a 3-stage charger. It has the same 2-stage charger that the 6300-series converters had. Thus any long-term overcharge considerations have not been mitigated.
[/quote]

Not to overly flog the horse here but actually both of us were a little off. I just checked the parallelax website and found that the old 6300 series was a single stage charger (13.8 volts nominal, 11.5 volts under load):

http://www.parallaxpower.com/6300/linearbrochure.pdf

So the the 7300's two stage charger is indeed an improvement over the single stage in the 6300. (I knew the 7300's charger was better, but definitely got it wrong as to how it was better). Nonetheless, I totally agree that the 7300's "float" voltage, while better longterm than a steady 13.8 volts from the 6300, is still too high for long term storage and a charger like the ones mentioned above are definitely much better.

In researching this, I was reminded there's another shortcoming with the 6300 series converter/charger...its relatively low battery recharging current (12 amps IIRC for the 6300 in my TM). At a 12 amp recharge rate, a pretty much fully depleted Group 27 battery is going to need around 12 hours of being hooked to shore power to get a full recharge. A pair of fully depleted T105s would need around 1 full day. That's an infeasable amount of time if the power source is a generator. By comparison, the full DC output is available for battery charging with the 7300...though I wouldn't want to recharge a deep cycle battery at a 45 amp rate.

Edit to use recharge rate of 12 amps instead of 6 amps