Quote:
Originally Posted by ED-n-KEL
I may have been mistaken about it being illegal to drive while over your TC, but this is just another example of when a law should be in place because common sense isn't enough. If you have a TV with a 3500 TC and you are towing 4000+, you may not be illegal, but you're definitely not being responsible....much the same way a person can drink one beer and still be legally sober, the act itself is irresponsible, legal or not. In both cases, the driving unit is compromised.
Physics is not a study of "guidelines", it a study of laws.
Speed may be a factor in safety, but it has no relationship on tow capacity. That is a mental illusion for justification purposes. You may be safer, but fact are facts, you're still over the rated tow capacity of your TV.
Many TVs state that anything in your TV should be subtracted for your TC, including driver, passengers, luggage, and even fuel. These could add as much as 1000 lbs above and beyond the weight of the TM.
Going back to one of my previous post, how many people would go out and buy a piece of rope rated at 3500 lbs and then knowingly hang their entire 4000 lb family over a cliff with it. Wouldn't you buy a piece of rope rated at 5,000 lbs if given the choice?
In closing, I think people are going to do what people are going to do, but I don't think bad practices should be condoned here. TC always seems to be a "gray area" by those trying to justify a marginal TV. For me, it is very "black and white" in that I would never tow beyond my rated TC...period.
It's been stated numerous times that almost all versions of TMs are over 3500 lbs, meaning any TV with a 3500 lbs TC should not be considered.
IMHO, I think the MINIMUM TC for a TV should be 5000 lbs for any size TM. For mountainous or severe conditions, I think 6000-7000 lbs TC should be considered. This is roughly a standard 1/2 ton P/U (F150) with a small V8 and by no means is a heavy duty vehicle. Many of today's so called SUVs are merely car chassis with a SUV body bolted on it, including mini vans. People have illusions that these types of TVs are "trucks", but there are not.
I have an opinion, you have an opinion, and the next guy will have an opinion. That's the nature of the beast. If anyone here feels my opinion puts their family in an unsafe situation, please let me know.
(NOTE: "Safe" = driving safe and mechanically safe.)
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Physics is not a study of "guidelines", it a study of laws."
You're right. Engineering is a study of guidelines.
...you're still over the rated tow capacity of your TV."
The numbers show that my tow vehicle is rated to tow 4700# if the tow capacity is figured the way it's figured for your Astro. I'm within GVWR, GCWR, and all axle load limits.
Going back to one of my previous post, how many people would go out and buy a piece of rope rated at 3500 lbs and then knowingly hang their entire 4000 lb family over a cliff with it. Wouldn't you buy a piece of rope rated at 5,000 lbs if given the choice?
I can't imagine hanging my family over a cliff for any reason with any rope.
"For me, it is very "black and white" in that I would never tow beyond my rated TC...period."
I'd bet the price of a weigh ticket that I could find something, somewhere about your Astro, hitch, TM, and load that doesn't meet a spec somewhere. We all are safer on the road when our mental energy is conscious of the possible weaknesses in our rigs instead of finding comfort in "common sense" and the things we know for sure that might not always be really true.
There are problems with making manufacturer's tow ratings into laws. For openers, they are based on lots of soft information. Manufacturers don't do it the same way, and it's even possible that no manufacturer uses the sort of rigor that would need to be the basis of proper and enforceable laws. Some manufacturers overstate the limits, some are more conservative. We have no idea how limits were calculated or where the limiting factors are. We don't know what fudge factors are already in them. Tow ratings are meant to be guidelines, and are not suitable as the laws you might like them to be.
It turns out that different members of this board have some very different objectives in choosing their tow vehicles. Some want the best tow vehicle there is. Some want vehicles with special capabilities. I just want to be able to use the vehicle I want to drive to work every day, and ideally, a vehicle I already have.
"Many of today's so called SUVs are merely car chassis with a SUV body bolted on it, including mini vans. People have illusions that these types of TVs are "trucks", but there are not."
The type of chassis does not have anything to do with the engineering side of a tow rating, and I wouldn't expect the words "truck" or "SUV" to appear in any equations.
"I don't think bad practices should be condoned here. "
I have no problem with others' opinions or the tow vehicle decisions they choose to make. I have a problem with people projecting their personal opinions into laws and labeling those in violation as grossly negligent felons. This, to me, would be a bad practice.
I'll ask one rhetorical question: Is this board open to all TrailManor owners' experience, or only those whose tow vehicles are considered worthy by people who have strong opinions without any personal experience?