TrailManor Owner's Forum - View Single Post - confused -4runner towing

**rickst29** · 06-21-2007, 11:28 AM

Jack, if you chose the 4R merely because of the bigger SIZE, you fell into the right choice by being lucky

Liberty actual, real world Death Rate per Million-Vehicle-Registered-Years: 86
4Runner death rate: 12

The Liberty isn't AWFUL, in fact it was right about average. But among the HUNDREDS of vehicle models for which the IIHS calculated numbers, the 4Runner was second best-- only the Mercedes E-Class Sedan had a lower death rate. Even if that years' data was somewhat of a fluke, their statisticians also said that the 95% confidence interval for the 4Runner was somewhere between 0-39, it was definitely awesome.
- - - - -

HOWEVER, the $$ which insurance companies pay out for INJURIES to drivers and passengers in 4Runners is only a little better than average. Having seen the results of a spectacular accident, I'm willing to take a guess at why. (A man had a medical problem while driving his big, heavy conversion van. He apparently slumped forwards onto the gas pedal, accelerated for several hundred yards, and hit our 4R at a speed estimated "60-70 MPH". DW was stopped, waiting in a line at a stop sign. 3 vehicles were totaled, but she took the most massive hit.)

The headrest in our 2005 wasn't built to snap forwards upon a rear impact--- and neither is our 2007

. IIRC, Toyota is installing upgraded "active head restraints" in several new models, starting with the 2008 Highlander. DW suffered a significant whiplash injury in the crash, even though the headrest was set at proper height (above her ears). This is defective, by MY standards. Her new "commuter" vehicle is a Subaru Tribeca, which we bought (mostly) because our insurance company says it's the SUV with lowest injury payouts by them. 4Runner is a bit safer for injuries than the average vehicle, but with it's other advantages it ought to be a lot better than it is.

(BTW: IIHS published figures for insurance payouts are always at least a couple years out of date, because the competing insurance Cos don't like to "give away" the proprietary information which they use to set their rates. The pdf doesn't even list the Tribeca, because it's too new. That's why I asked Progressive, before I even started shopping, to tell me the top 3 vehicles-- in order.)

The death rate data is becoming very "stale", it's mostly from 2002. But except in cases of a TOTALLY new model, cars/trucks/SUVs hardly ever change a lot from one year to the next. Side airbags help, of course, and I hope that you got 'em.

BTW, after the crash, the PASSENGER compartment had been so well protected the all of the doors still opened. She got out and comforted the dying van owner during his last moments. The police accident investigator was amazed at the 4Rs performance. To me (not her), he said "If she'd been in a normal car she wouldn't be walking away from this, we'd probably be using another body bag".

The V8 was nice, and could tow the TM in 5th (with the Tranny locked up, YOU NEED THAT TO HAPPEN) whenever we were on relatively flat or downhill grades and going 60 MPH or higher. The V6 does a lot better left in 4th, and it actually gets BETTER gas mileage while running that way. Until you're above 8000 ft (and yes, we do that a lot) there's almost no compromise using the V6, except for slightly louder engine noise. Just downshift one notch. And the oil filter is sure a HECK of lot easier to get at, I do my own oil changes.

06-21-2007, 11:28 AM	#7
rickst29 yes, they hunt lions. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,324	4Runner vs. Liberty (long): It's the SAFETY, not just the room Jack, if you chose the 4R merely because of the bigger SIZE, you fell into the right choice by being lucky Liberty actual, real world Death Rate per Million-Vehicle-Registered-Years: 86 4Runner death rate: 12 The Liberty isn't AWFUL, in fact it was right about average. But among the HUNDREDS of vehicle models for which the IIHS calculated numbers, the 4Runner was second best-- only the Mercedes E-Class Sedan had a lower death rate. Even if that years' data was somewhat of a fluke, their statisticians also said that the 95% confidence interval for the 4Runner was somewhere between 0-39, it was definitely awesome. - - - - - HOWEVER, the $$ which insurance companies pay out for INJURIES to drivers and passengers in 4Runners is only a little better than average. Having seen the results of a spectacular accident, I'm willing to take a guess at why. (A man had a medical problem while driving his big, heavy conversion van. He apparently slumped forwards onto the gas pedal, accelerated for several hundred yards, and hit our 4R at a speed estimated "60-70 MPH". DW was stopped, waiting in a line at a stop sign. 3 vehicles were totaled, but she took the most massive hit.) The headrest in our 2005 wasn't built to snap forwards upon a rear impact--- and neither is our 2007 . IIRC, Toyota is installing upgraded "active head restraints" in several new models, starting with the 2008 Highlander. DW suffered a significant whiplash injury in the crash, even though the headrest was set at proper height (above her ears). This is defective, by MY standards. Her new "commuter" vehicle is a Subaru Tribeca, which we bought (mostly) because our insurance company says it's the SUV with lowest injury payouts by them. 4Runner is a bit safer for injuries than the average vehicle, but with it's other advantages it ought to be a lot better than it is. (BTW: IIHS published figures for insurance payouts are always at least a couple years out of date, because the competing insurance Cos don't like to "give away" the proprietary information which they use to set their rates. The pdf doesn't even list the Tribeca, because it's too new. That's why I asked Progressive, before I even started shopping, to tell me the top 3 vehicles-- in order.) The death rate data is becoming very "stale", it's mostly from 2002. But except in cases of a TOTALLY new model, cars/trucks/SUVs hardly ever change a lot from one year to the next. Side airbags help, of course, and I hope that you got 'em. BTW, after the crash, the PASSENGER compartment had been so well protected the all of the doors still opened. She got out and comforted the dying van owner during his last moments. The police accident investigator was amazed at the 4Rs performance. To me (not her), he said "If she'd been in a normal car she wouldn't be walking away from this, we'd probably be using another body bag". The V8 was nice, and could tow the TM in 5th (with the Tranny locked up, YOU NEED THAT TO HAPPEN) whenever we were on relatively flat or downhill grades and going 60 MPH or higher. The V6 does a lot better left in 4th, and it actually gets BETTER gas mileage while running that way. Until you're above 8000 ft (and yes, we do that a lot) there's almost no compromise using the V6, except for slightly louder engine noise. Just downshift one notch. And the oil filter is sure a HECK of lot easier to get at, I do my own oil changes. __________________ TM='06 2619 w/5K axle, 15" Maxxis "E" tires. Plumbing protector. 630 watts solar. 450AH LiFePO4 batteries, 3500 watt inverter. CR-1110 E-F/S fridge (compressor). TV = 2007 4runner sport, with a 36 volt "power boost".