TrailManor Owner's Forum - View Single Post - Right Rear torsion bar bracket. Lag bolts pulled out of wood frame.

**rickst29** · 07-08-2023, 11:03 AM

Thank you for your correction to my guess that the "middle" torsion bars (front shell rear corners and rear shell front corners)) were being supported by by separate torsion bar "hanger brackets".

I just went out the garage to actually look, and my middle ones are like yours - - a single much shorter bracket assembly on each side (street side and curb side, each containing dual torsion bar support holes.)
- - -
Getting back to the original front-most and rear-most pairs, where you reported that 3 of 4 have come loose:

The 3" wide 30" long bar is wide enough to support the new holes for "added interior through-the-floor bolts with washers on top". But issues might be present for actually placing the nuts and washers on the floor surface one the inner floor:

For the street side front-most torsion bar in my 2619, placement of nuts and washers would be challenged by the presence of the 40 gallon water tank. There is about 1" of free air between the tank side and the inner surface of the TM side wall, the washer and nut would need to be placed on the bolt end with from the end of an torque wrench extender bar. (There's no room for a hand to reach in between for the approximately 10" height of the tank.)
For the far-front curb side, I have only the under-the bench storage compartment, that one would be easy.,
For the curb side far rear, I have only the lower cabinets, and could access the bolt ends after removing lower shelves
HOWEVER, the street side rear would be underneath the end of the tub - nearly impossible for me to reach with nuts and washers (without removing the tub completely). That location also has a possibly serious issue with with the "desk screws" approach, which I will cover next.

If you take a close look at my first picture from the post above, you see that my numerous deck screws are all being driven up a bit closer to the TM side edge than the the OEM bolt were. You can't see this from the picture, but they are angled relative to each other - in the same way a carpenter would drive nails at different angles when framing a house.

The different directions of pilot holes vary only in the direction of TM "front" to TM "back", and must be strictly vertical from street side to curb side. This keeps all those bolt threads in the middle of the 1" thick wood edge insert of the lower wall.

Your 30 inch bar length seems excessive, but the extra length is harmless (except for more wasted time and hardware). When the shell is raised, downard force through the lift bar presses straight down on the curved end of the torsion bar at it's lift bar attachment. That downard force is supported at the hanger bracket, in a vertical direction.

The most critical screws in the OEM attachment were those most directly above the pass-through hole. In my front street-side corner the pass-through bar hole is not centered - the first two bolts must handle most of the weight, the others provide much less assistance. The portion of your very long bar which is more than 1 foot away isn't doing a lot to help, because nearly all of the stress occurs on bolts which are closer to the pass-through hole.
- - -

On 3 of your 4 corners, I am willing to bet a virtual beer that 10-15 of those 4" deck screws up and into the sidewall can fully stabilize the OEM angled support assembly.

For each screw, the add-on steel bar (1/4" thick) must be pre-drilled larger than the longer pilot hole. IIRC, 3/16" allows the longer pilot hole and screw to be angled, while still providing a good base for the deck screw head.

The longer 1/8" pilot holes go up, through the OEM bracket, and through the first aluminum layer of the TM floor assembly. IIRC, the next portion of the pilot hole ooes into floor wood. When the bit reaches the upper floor aluminum skin, it will become a bit more. Drive through that layer and into the wooden edge side wall bottom, for the full length of the 4" desk screw.

Do not use a 3-1/2" deck screw, it might not have enough threads into the waqll structure too do the job. Do not use a "bigger" screw, because it will remove too much of the 1" thick lower wall edging and weaken the threads. IIRC, Deckmate 4" screws are are only about 10 AWG.

If you choose to use add through-the-floor bolts, they should be be machine screws of slightly larger size (perhaps 1/4 - 20). I'd use SS.
- - -

The street size rear is likely incompatible with "up into the wall" deck screws, due to the presence of pressurized Hot and Cold water lines for the tub outlet running within the wall. Without removing the wall behind the toilet or removing the tub, I don't know the height of those water lines above the floor. The corresponding exterior drain lines might also run with some length of tubing close to the bottom of the wall.

I'm not suer what to recommend for that corner of the TM.

= 14llor bolts,
ber screw vd of the wawa, all the way through troe resistive, bit becomes a bit resistive at is hits the uppoer floor amulinum skin, , lot hole is within floor wood, through two layers of TM floor aluminum and a great deal of floor assembly edging wood deging wood oor of floor adge woodlor ow lasers of and into the .

07-08-2023, 11:03 AM	#10
rickst29 yes, they hunt lions. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,324	I'll stay with that deck screw recommendation. Thank you for your correction to my guess that the "middle" torsion bars (front shell rear corners and rear shell front corners)) were being supported by by separate torsion bar "hanger brackets". I just went out the garage to actually look, and my middle ones are like yours - - a single much shorter bracket assembly on each side (street side and curb side, each containing dual torsion bar support holes.) - - - Getting back to the original front-most and rear-most pairs, where you reported that 3 of 4 have come loose: The 3" wide 30" long bar is wide enough to support the new holes for "added interior through-the-floor bolts with washers on top". But issues might be present for actually placing the nuts and washers on the floor surface one the inner floor: For the street side front-most torsion bar in my 2619, placement of nuts and washers would be challenged by the presence of the 40 gallon water tank. There is about 1" of free air between the tank side and the inner surface of the TM side wall, the washer and nut would need to be placed on the bolt end with from the end of an torque wrench extender bar. (There's no room for a hand to reach in between for the approximately 10" height of the tank.) For the far-front curb side, I have only the under-the bench storage compartment, that one would be easy., For the curb side far rear, I have only the lower cabinets, and could access the bolt ends after removing lower shelves HOWEVER, the street side rear would be underneath the end of the tub - nearly impossible for me to reach with nuts and washers (without removing the tub completely). That location also has a possibly serious issue with with the "desk screws" approach, which I will cover next. If you take a close look at my first picture from the post above, you see that my numerous deck screws are all being driven up a bit closer to the TM side edge than the the OEM bolt were. You can't see this from the picture, but they are angled relative to each other - in the same way a carpenter would drive nails at different angles when framing a house. The different directions of pilot holes vary only in the direction of TM "front" to TM "back", and must be strictly vertical from street side to curb side. This keeps all those bolt threads in the middle of the 1" thick wood edge insert of the lower wall. Your 30 inch bar length seems excessive, but the extra length is harmless (except for more wasted time and hardware). When the shell is raised, downard force through the lift bar presses straight down on the curved end of the torsion bar at it's lift bar attachment. That downard force is supported at the hanger bracket, in a vertical direction. The most critical screws in the OEM attachment were those most directly above the pass-through hole. In my front street-side corner the pass-through bar hole is not centered - the first two bolts must handle most of the weight, the others provide much less assistance. The portion of your very long bar which is more than 1 foot away isn't doing a lot to help, because nearly all of the stress occurs on bolts which are closer to the pass-through hole. - - - On 3 of your 4 corners, I am willing to bet a virtual beer that 10-15 of those 4" deck screws up and into the sidewall can fully stabilize the OEM angled support assembly. For each screw, the add-on steel bar (1/4" thick) must be pre-drilled larger than the longer pilot hole. IIRC, 3/16" allows the longer pilot hole and screw to be angled, while still providing a good base for the deck screw head. The longer 1/8" pilot holes go up, through the OEM bracket, and through the first aluminum layer of the TM floor assembly. IIRC, the next portion of the pilot hole ooes into floor wood. When the bit reaches the upper floor aluminum skin, it will become a bit more. Drive through that layer and into the wooden edge side wall bottom, for the full length of the 4" desk screw. Do not use a 3-1/2" deck screw, it might not have enough threads into the waqll structure too do the job. Do not use a "bigger" screw, because it will remove too much of the 1" thick lower wall edging and weaken the threads. IIRC, Deckmate 4" screws are are only about 10 AWG. If you choose to use add through-the-floor bolts, they should be be machine screws of slightly larger size (perhaps 1/4 - 20). I'd use SS. - - - The street size rear is likely incompatible with "up into the wall" deck screws, due to the presence of pressurized Hot and Cold water lines for the tub outlet running within the wall. Without removing the wall behind the toilet or removing the tub, I don't know the height of those water lines above the floor. The corresponding exterior drain lines might also run with some length of tubing close to the bottom of the wall. I'm not suer what to recommend for that corner of the TM. = 14llor bolts, ber screw vd of the wawa, all the way through troe resistive, bit becomes a bit resistive at is hits the uppoer floor amulinum skin, , lot hole is within floor wood, through two layers of TM floor aluminum and a great deal of floor assembly edging wood deging wood oor of floor adge woodlor ow lasers of and into the . __________________ TM='06 2619 w/5K axle, 15" Maxxis "E" tires. Plumbing protector. 630 watts solar. 450AH LiFePO4 batteries, 3500 watt inverter. CR-1110 E-F/S fridge (compressor). TV = 2007 4runner sport, with a 36 volt "power boost".