Solar Panel deal

[Wavery]

If anyone is thinking of solar panels, this is a GREAT deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/80-Watt-solar-panel-charing-for12vdc-high-effiency-rate_W0QQitemZ220564769739QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item335aaf4bcb

I purchased 2, of these same panels from this seller (@ $240 each) and I can't say enough about them. At @ $209 (incl S&H) they are a steal.

1, 80W panel may be adequate for some, especially if it is not permanently mounted and you are willing to "Chase the Sun" with it. I permanently mounted 2 of these and have had quite impressive results and I'm NOT a power mizer....:p

This guy's prices fluctuate, depending on his inventory. If you are thinking solar, I'd grab them at this price.

[Jim&Joan]

Kind of interesting...
The price of $209 is a 'starting bid', I don't see a 'buy now' option.

On their web site, the price is $249.

The web site states $45 for shipping, but the ebay indication is shipping is covered.

I may give them a call and see what they might be willing to do.

I know there are several in depth posts on the subject, but do you (or have you) use(d) their charge controller?

Never mind...I read the posts and see your stance on controllers.

[Bill]

Jim&Joan -

If you call them, please post (or PM me) the results. I have a friend who is interested.

Bill

[Wavery]

Kind of interesting...
The price of $209 is a 'starting bid', I don't see a 'buy now' option.

On their web site, the price is $249.

The web site states $45 for shipping, but the ebay indication is shipping is covered.

I may give them a call and see what they might be willing to do.

I know there are several in depth posts on the subject, but do you (or have you) use(d) their charge controller?

Never mind...I read the posts and see your stance on controllers.

I did end up with a controller (not by choice). I think that it's a cheap one but my batteries stay pretty topped up. We'll be dry-camping at Pt Mugu this week for 5 days. I'm confident that the batteries will stay topped up.

BTW......When I posted that eBay link, it was a "Buy-it-now" auction....... I don't know how he does that but I've seen him do it before. Check his other listings.

[rumbleweed]

Expect a push back from Wayne, but investigate this carefully. Several red flags.

English in description is incorrect hints of Chinese product ie has backward diode???

Contact email address is at Gmail a free mail site. Not normally used by established US companies.

No real specs on efficiency etc.

I am not saying these are bad panels or this is a scam, but just suggesting you investigate further before purchasing..

[Wavery]

Expect a push back from Wayne, but investigate this carefully. Several red flags.

English in description is incorrect hints of Chinese product ie has backward diode???

Contact email address is at Gmail a free mail site. Not normally used by established US companies.

No real specs on efficiency etc.

I am not saying these are bad panels or this is a scam, but just suggesting you investigate further before purchasing..

I have no idea where the panels are actually made. I can tell you that the measured output in direct Sunlight on the panels that I bought (80W) was 5.62A (one panel) with the battery @ 12.5V (before hooking up the panels). I can also tell you that the panel is high quality (glare proof) glass and high quality aluminum frames. Extremely well put together and sealed.

I have no ties to this guy (don't even know him) and I am not trying to push anything. All I can say is that they work for me and they are about 1/2 the price of panels that I have seen out there. I also received them in 4 days and they were shipped from Texas (not that , that means anything). I ordered 1 first, to test it out (I was skeptical). After testing, I ordered a second panel.

We are camping this week for 5 days and I will take some pics of actual output reading from my ammeter. I will also take some pics of the construction of the panels.

For what it's worth.....that auction just closed and someone got the panel for $209 (free S&H).......

[MudDog]

For what it's worth.....that auction just closed and someone got the panel for $209.......

Well, based off Wayne's install/"experience so far" thread and his prior solar experience on his boat, I just bought two of them at $209/ea shipped (There was another auction for the same panel that ended 15 minutes later).

I saw the typos (charing instead of charging....let's hope that's not the case), but decided to take a chance.

Time will tell if it works out.

I have some reading to do on install options and am sure I'll be asking Wayne questions :)

I live a block from the other end of Point Mugu State Park/Sycamore Canyon - - so an 8 mile bike ride delivers me to the Pt Mugu Campground Wayne frequents - If he doesn't mind a vistor, I may ride my bike down to see his install in person :D)



I'll update my experience on this thread...

[Wavery]

Well, based off Wayne's install/"experience so far" thread and his prior solar experience on his boat, I just bought two of them at $209/ea shipped (There was another auction for the same panel that ended 15 minutes later).

I saw the typos (charing instead of charging....let's hope that's not the case), but decided to take a chance.

Time will tell if it works out.

I have some reading to do on install options and am sure I'll be asking Wayne questions :)

I live a block from the other end of Point Mugu State Park/Sycamore Canyon - - so an 8 mile bike ride delivers me to the Pt Mugu Campground Wayne frequents - If he doesn't mind a vistor, I may ride my bike down to see his install in person :D)



I'll update my experience on this thread...

We always love company.....come on by. We aren't sure if we will get there on Wed or Thurs yet. Our reservations are Thurs-Monday but we may go on Wed if things are slow. There are 28 open spots on Wed, so I'm not concerned about reservations. I'll PM you my cell ph#.

BTW......you got them about $80 cheaper than I did.........

[rotor_wash]

Yep, Chinese. I like the quote on www.laviesolar.com "PUT THE SUN IS CONVERTED TO WEALTH BUILDING RICH HUMANITY IS OUR PURPOSE! - solar panel". The website is from Texas, but the domain is here:

Registrant:
Organization : liuyang
Name : liu yang
Address : Zhengzhoushi jing san lu
City : Zhengzhou
Province/State : Zhejiang
Country : cn
Postal Code : 450008

Good luck.

[brulaz]

So, I've been meaning to ask.

Has anybody had any problems with their panels not being "rugged" enough? I mean you're mounting them on a trailer, or some of you are carrying them around (in the back of your pickup?) and setting them up each time. Are standard solar panels strong enough for this sort of usage?

I haven't heard of any problems so I guess they must be ... ?

By the way, the ones I'm looking at are Kyocera 130W : http://store.solar-electric.com/kyso130wa12v.html

They seem pretty rugged with tempered glass and an aluminum frame. I also like the size and weight.

[rumbleweed]

I use the 65W version of the one you chose. That is an excellent price. Mine came from the same place. These guys are very good and they ship very fast. I carry mine in the back of my PU for multiple uses and even knocked one over once with no damage. When choosing a controller, I suggest getting one larger than your immediate needs should you decide to add panels in the future.

[Wavery]

Here are some pics that I just took (didn't come out real good).

The panels are made of glass so I wouldn't suggest stepping on them or dropping tools on them. The frames are double thickness, heavy aluminum frames. You would have to run over them with a truck to damage the frames.

Everything seems to be sealed up very professionally. I see no air bubbles behind the glass or any sloppy soldering.

The main thing is.....they work...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/solarpnl001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/solarpnl002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/solarpnl003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/solarpnl006.jpg

[brulaz]

Thanks for the pictures. The panels do look very solid. And the dimensions (36" x 26" x 1.4") might make them more resistant to a twist or bend causing breakage. And the weight (18#) is nice, a little easier to setup.

The 130W Kyocera's I was looking at are almost 2 feet longer (59" x 26") but a bit thicker (1.8") and definitely heavier (29#). The additional thickness is only in the new models as they claim to have beefed up the frame.


Just found this site that compares prices per watt of solar panels:
http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm
Thoughts about the site:
- Some pretty low prices there, but most require large quantities.
- The 60W Kaneka panels (Japanese) are very cheap but also heavy (32# per 60W panel) and high voltage (92V Open circuit) which won't work with some MPPT controllers. But they're amorphous Si which I understand to be very sturdy. http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=kaneka_gsa60
- "We prefer not to include any cheaper Chinese solar modules at this time due to quality and after-sale service concerns", hmmm ... guess that's why there's no LaVie.


Decisions, decisions. Luckily it'll be while before we're boondocking, so there's no rush.

[Wavery]

Thanks for the pictures. The panels do look very solid. And the dimensions (36" x 26" x 1.4") might make them more resistant to a twist or bend causing breakage. And the weight (18#) is nice, a little easier to setup.

The 130W Kyocera's I was looking at are almost 2 feet longer (59" x 26") but a bit thicker (1.8") and definitely heavier (29#). The additional thickness is only in the new models as they claim to have beefed up the frame.


Just found this site that compares prices per watt of solar panels:
http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm
Thoughts about the site:
- Some pretty low prices there, but most require large quantities.
- The 60W Kaneka panels (Japanese) are very cheap but also heavy (32# per 60W panel) and high voltage (92V Open circuit) which won't work with some MPPT controllers. But they're amorphous Si which I understand to be very sturdy. http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=kaneka_gsa60
- "We prefer not to include any cheaper Chinese solar modules at this time due to quality and after-sale service concerns", hmmm ... guess that's why there's no LaVie.


Decisions, decisions. Luckily it'll be while before we're boondocking, so there's no rush.

I don't think the added weight would be in the frame. The frame on these panels are truly very strong. I can't see any reason to beef them up. It would just be added weight with little return.

I think that it may be in thicker glass. Tempered glass is extremely strong when it is thick enough. Try breaking a car window some time. It's hard to do even with a hammer.

If this tempered glass is too thin, it can break fairly easily. That's why I say that I wouldn't step on these thinks or drop tools on them.

[Wavery]

Well, based off Wayne's install/"experience so far" thread and his prior solar experience on his boat, I just bought two of them at $209/ea shipped (There was another auction for the same panel that ended 15 minutes later).

I saw the typos (charing instead of charging....let's hope that's not the case), but decided to take a chance.

Time will tell if it works out.

I have some reading to do on install options and am sure I'll be asking Wayne questions :)

I live a block from the other end of Point Mugu State Park/Sycamore Canyon - - so an 8 mile bike ride delivers me to the Pt Mugu Campground Wayne frequents - If he doesn't mind a vistor, I may ride my bike down to see his install in person :D)



I'll update my experience on this thread...

It was great to meet MudDog & family @ Pt Mugu this weekend. Jim did a great job of mounting his panels on the forward shell. He also got The MPPT controller and top quality cables. Real nice installation......:D

Thanks for joining us and hope to see you again some time. I'll let you share your experience with the panels. Your instrumentation is a lot more sophisticated than mine.....

[MudDog]

Wayne - it was a pleasure meeting you, Carolyn and some of the members of the SCCampers. Your posts have inspired a lot of the things I have done to my TM so far, so it was great to be able to thank you in person. :)

After winning the panel auction last week I started sourcing all of the other parts and ended up getting:

Morningstart Sunsaver MPPT Controller
w/ Remote Meter Display
w/ Remote Battery Temp Sensor
w/ PC Meterbus Adapter

50' MC-4 M/F Extension Cable and 2 MC-4 Y Connectors (M/M/F & F/F/M)

Solar Panel Rocker Foot Mounts with Tilt Bar from AM-Solar link (http://www.amsolar.com/mountsandtiltbars.html)

#8 wire and 25 amp fuse for the run from the controller to the battery.

The controller arrived on Tuesday. I decided to mount it in the storage area under the dinette seat next to the fresh water tank. I used liquid nails to glue a piece of plywood to the thin cabinet veneer and then mounted the controller to the plywood. I bought a small heater register that I plan to mount below the controller to allow the storage area to vent a bit more than it does now.

I ran #8 wire to the battery and fused the + terminal at the battery with a weather proof blade fuse holder w/25 amp fuse. I also ran the remote temp sensor to the batteries on the tongue. Morningstar recommends the remote temp sensor if the temp at the battery can be greater the 9 degrees +/- different than the controller.

I installed the controller meter display next to the status panel/thermostat below the counter-top at the sink.

While at Home Depot getting the #8 wire, I decided to pick up a thermostat to replace the original. We normally use small electric heaters, but with more dry camping we expect to be using the furnance more. What a difference the thermostat made! Should have done that mod LONG ago.

As I was wrapping up the cabling between the controller and the batteries, the mail arrived with my MC-4 cables and connectors.

I bought one 50' MC-4 extension cable with one male end and one female end. I cut the extension cable in half and connected the cut ends to the controller and ran the ends with the MC4 connectors to the roof following the TM wiring bundle most of the way. On the roof, I then used the two pre-built MC-4 Y adaptors to split the + and - leads in to two.

With the SunSaver MPPT controller, I can run the panels in series (35V, 5 amps) or parallel (17.5 volts, 10 amps). They're currenlty set up in parallel.

We had made reservations at PT Mugu for Friday and Saturday night. Friday evening when I came home from work, both the panel mounts and panels had arrived.

The mounts are two pieces - a mount that attaches to the panel and a bracket that attaches to the roof. They attach together via a bolt with a large twist knob (which can be repalced with a security bolt if needed.) The bracket came with 3M VHB tape already applied to the bottom. The mounts are custom for the panels AM-Solar sells and the hole for bolting the mount to the panel was a little off. I used a drill press to drill new holes in the stainless steel mounts to line up with the holes in my frames.

I then set the panels on the front shell of the roof. Before the drive down to Point Mugu, I detached the brackets from the mounts and removed the panels from the roof to make the trip without putting any stress on the freshly mounted brackets.

We made it into the campground around 9:00 PM. The following morning we lowered the shells and re-mounted the panels. Just after we got the panels installed and connected, Wayne drove up to say Hi and he and Carolyn invited us to a pot luck Saturday night :)

The only issue I had was with the install was with the contoller meter display. It was powering up, but the LCD display was stuck on some kind of diagnostic code and none of the keys were working. It turned out to be a bad RJ11 cable. We went to Staples and bought a phone cord and re-ran the connection and the display has worked fine since.

The optional PC Adapter lets you capture the controller logs and customize the settings using your PC and software called MSView. The default settings are fine, but you can optimize the settings based off your particular batteries and the mfg recommendations for those batteries. I've gathered the information from Interstate's site, but have not yet customized the controller settings.

Pt Mugu gets full sun nearly all day and the controller indicated as much (I was getting the full 17.5V/10amps with a gradual slope downward leading to sundown).

We mainly ran the heater, lights and waterpump Friday and Saturday night. During the day, the batteries were quickly brought back to full charger and I arrived home today with a full charge. The 3M tape also held up against the wind gusts that hit last night and the drive home :)

I plan to get a Xantrex LinkLite to be able to really read the battery bank like a fuel gauge and an inverter to be able to use some A/C devices.

At this point, all I can say is the panels did arrive in a timely manner and they are creating the rated volts and amps in the ideal conditions at Pt. Mugu - So, so far I'm pleased.

Will try to get some pictures of my install to post and will update my experience as we camp in different places with different conditions.

[Jim&Joan]

Is your intention to leave the panels mounted permanently?

[MudDog]

Yes - I plan to leave the panels mounted on the roof, but can easily remove them for cleaning, roof re-calking or golfball size hail-storms :)

Between the MC-4 quick connectors and the large twist knobs on the mounts they are easy to remove. For some security, I'm thinkiing of attaching one additional bracket in the middle of the leading edge of each of the frames and drilling a hole thru the bracket and the frame that I could stick a small pad-lock thru. Won't stop someone really determined, but might hinder the opportunistic thief if I'm parked in a lot somewhere eating lunch.

The back of my TM (2619) didn't seem to have enough room when the TM is folded down and there were a lot of potential shadows from AC/vents along the sides.

Lifting the front shell with the panels mounted was a bit harder (panels added about 37 lbs) - so next time I have it out, I may try to adjust the torsion a bit.



Is your intention to leave the panels mounted permanently?

[ShrimpBurrito]

MudDog - What did the whole package set you back?

Dave

[MudDog]

I went with a few more bells and whistles than Wayne did (and didn't get a free controller :) )

Total (with tax and shipping was right about $1k

2 80 Watt Panels - $418
MPPT Controller with LCD Display, Battery Temp Sensor and PC Adapter $358
50' MC-4 Extension and 2 MC-4 Y Connectors - $58
2 sets Rocker Mounts with Optional Tilt Bars - $170
25' #8 wire and fuse - ?

[ShrimpBurrito]

That's the cost I was thinking. Sounds like a real nice setup.

Dave

[Wavery]

These panels are actually a bit of over-kill, if you camp where there is good Sun exposure. However, for a solar system to really be effective, I think that you must go with over-kill because you can't count on all sunny days and good exposure in all camp sites.

We ran our lights at will, I even left the porch light on all night. We ran the furnace all night (starting at Sunset) and did not conserve at all. Our batteries were at 12.8V by 9:AM and 14.7V by 1:PM, each day.

Sunday morning 8:AM, after 3 nights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/DSC01778.jpg

Sunday noon, just before leaving.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/DSC01797.jpg

I left my ammeter at home...... :(

[ShrimpBurrito]

Does the federal solar system tax credit also apply to RVs? I'm fairly confident that the tax code considers RVs and boats residences, as you can deduct loan interest on such vehicles, so why wouldn't the solar credit also apply? IIRC, the credit is for something like 30% of the price of the system & installation. And that's a CREDIT, not a deduction, so it's like getting a 30% refund on your solar system.

For those who are interested, check out the relevant IRS publication:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5695.pdf

It appears as though travel trailer installations qualify.

Dave

[brulaz]

Another good MPPT controller:
http://www.roguepowertech.com/products/mpt3024.htm
Gets good reviews at the Northern Arizona Wind & Sun Forum / Solar Product Reviews & Opinions. Includes the LCD display and battery temp sensor in the package.
Made off-grid in Oregon.

How do you find the MC4 snap connectors? Do they look like they will handle multiple disconnects? Wasn't sure if they were designed for easy but permanent installations.

[Wavery]

Another good MPPT controller:
http://www.roguepowertech.com/products/mpt3024.htm
Gets good reviews at the Northern Arizona Wind & Sun Forum / Solar Product Reviews & Opinions. Includes the LCD display and battery temp sensor in the package.
Made off-grid in Oregon.

How do you find the MC4 snap connectors? Do they look like they will handle multiple disconnects? Wasn't sure if they were designed for easy but permanent installations.

I don't think that I would like to disconnect those MC4 connectors daily but for 15-20 camp-outs a year, I think they will be OK. They are kind of a pain to disconnect. The little prongs that you have to squeeze in don't fit my big old fingers very well.

[MudDog]

The MC-4 connectors seems pretty sturdy and seem like they would handle fairly frequent connecting/disconnecting.

They sell ends that you can attach to your own cable - for those you apparently need a special tool to make the connection water-tight.

For the pre-made cables they just click together. To release you squeeze a couple of tabs in and the connection comes apart.

I could actually probably get another 15-20' extension and use it to put one of the solar panels on a portable ground mount if I found myself someplace where there was too much shade on the roof.....hmmmm...

[Wavery]

The MC-4 connectors seems pretty sturdy and seem like they would handle fairly frequent connecting/disconnecting.

They sell ends that you can attach to your own cable - for those you apparently need a special tool to make the connection water-tight.

For the pre-made cables they just click together. To release you squeeze a couple of tabs in and the connection comes apart.

I could actually probably get another 15-20' extension and use it to put one of the solar panels on a portable ground mount if I found myself someplace where there was too much shade on the roof.....hmmmm...

The connectors that I purchased don't need a special tool. Although, I did solder the actual wire connector onto the end of the wire before assembling (instead of just crimping it).

There is a nut that you put on the wire first. Then you solder the wire connector to the wire, push the connector into the housing. Then screw the nut onto the housing. The housing has a special seal that tightens against the wire as you tighten the nut.

[MudDog]

I took the TM out of the garage today to install a Xantrex LinkLite battery monitor and took a few pictures of the solar install.

First picture shows where I installed the Solar Controller Remote Display and LinkLite.

Second picture shows where I installed the controller (looking down into the dinette storage area)

Third picture shows the panels on the front shell. Will take another picture closer up when I fold it down later today.

[Wavery]

Beautiful job........:)

[M&M Hokie]

If anyone is thinking of solar panels, this is a GREAT deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/80-Watt-solar-panel-charing-for12vdc-high-effiency-rate_W0QQitemZ220564769739QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item335aaf4bcb

I purchased 2, of these same panels from this seller (@ $240 each) and I can't say enough about them. At @ $209 (incl S&H) they are a steal.



I just purchased two 80W panels from same seller (I think/hope) and my total price including S&H is 426.66.

[M&M Hokie]

I just installed the panels and the MPPT controller. My first experience with them is that my LinkLite reported 9A going into the battery. Success!

I can't wait to go camping at Pt. Mugu to see how it works in a non-driveway situation. Thanks to harveyrv and MudDog for all of the information. (I copied a lot of MudDog's configuration.)

[Wavery]

I just installed the panels and the MPPT controller. My first experience with them is that my LinkLite reported 9A going into the battery. Success!

I can't wait to go camping at Pt. Mugu to see how it works in a non-driveway situation. Thanks to harveyrv and MudDog for all of the information. (I copied a lot of MudDog's configuration.)

We go to Pt Mugu a lot. When are you going?

[M&M Hokie]

We go to Pt Mugu a lot. When are you going?

We haven't been there before. We had reservations over Christmas last year but kids got sick so we didn't go. We are finally getting our chance beginning 7/16.

[Wavery]

We haven't been there before. We had reservations over Christmas last year but kids got sick so we didn't go. We are finally getting our chance beginning 7/16.

We have plans for that week-end.......grandkids....:D

We love Pt Mugu........ That's where we met MudDog the 1st time.

[MudDog]

I just installed the panels and the MPPT controller. My first experience with them is that my LinkLite reported 9A going into the battery. Success!

I can't wait to go camping at Pt. Mugu to see how it works in a non-driveway situation. Thanks to harveyrv and MudDog for all of the information. (I copied a lot of MudDog's configuration.)

Mark - Great news!

We've been real happy with the panels (Thanks Wayne!) and have been enjoying doing more 'primitive' camping without giving up some of the creature comforts.

Point Mugu should be a good place to exercise the panels. We've been a couple of times and I think both times we and Wayne were fully charged by noon.

Last time he put an anameter on his setup and then mine and it showed I was getting about 20% more amps to the battery - likely from the MPPT controller converting some of the extra voltage the battery couldn't use to amps that it could. Not sure Wayne is a full believer yet.... ;)

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Point Mugu is literally right down the canyon from my house...so may come down and say hi, or who knows, you may see a TM with a similar looking solar setup pull in for a day or two :D

I may have mentioned this, but on the inverter install be sure to get enough 1/0 guage cables. I started off with just two (one for the + and one for the - connection) and was getting low volatge warnings when running high-load things like the microwave. Wayne helped diagnose it as the small guage cable between the two 6 volt batteries. Replaced that cable and it's a bit better now, but still get the warning if the microwave is on for 30+ seconds.

I realized I have at least one more weak link....because of the Linklite I wired the 1/0 guage negative to the shunt, but still have the smaller wire from the shunt to the battery negative. I think when I replace that segment with a 1/0 guage wire I should be OK.

[Scott O]

Mark - Great news!

Point Mugu should be a good place to exercise the panels. We've been a couple of times and I think both times we and Wayne were fully charged by noon.
.

Good luck...June gloom seems to have extended way into July this year. Let us know if you get any sun...

[MudDog]

Good luck...June gloom seems to have extended way into July this year. Let us know if you get any sun...

Good point Scott....

Mark - may want to consider adding a Wind Turbine to your user installed options :D

[M&M Hokie]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Point Mugu is literally right down the canyon from my house...so may come down and say hi, or who knows, you may see a TM with a similar looking solar setup pull in for a day or two :D
...
I may have mentioned this, but on the inverter install be sure to get enough 1/0 guage cables. I started off with just two (one for the + and one for the - connection) and was getting low volatge warnings when running high-load things like the microwave. Wayne helped diagnose it as the small guage cable between the two 6 volt batteries. Replaced that cable and it's a bit better now, but still get the warning if the microwave is on for 30+ seconds.

I realized I have at least one more weak link....because of the Linklite I wired the 1/0 guage negative to the shunt, but still have the smaller wire from the shunt to the battery negative. I think when I replace that segment with a 1/0 guage wire I should be OK.

It would be great meeting you and thanking you in person for designing my panel configuration.;)

Here is what I did or am in the process of doing....

I will be using 4/0 cabling between the batteries and the inverter. This includes the jumper between the two batteries. The inverter is supposed to be delivered Tuesday evening. It is an open question whether I will manage to get that pig installed between then and Friday morning when we leave for Pt. Mugu.

I did do a lot of prep work for the inverter install as part of my solar array install yesterday. The first thing I did was reverse my battery wiring. My trailer came from the factory with the opposite battery terminals jumpered rather than the adjacent terminals. (Why???) I did not like this approach because I am going to be using 4/0 cables and they are already out of hand. This reduces the 4/0 cable run by a foot or more and any reduction in those cable runs is welcome.

My stroke of genius over the weekend was to mount the 250A fuse directly to the positive battery terminal. (So there is no short jumper between the positive terminal and the 250A fuse.) I did a similar thing with the LinkLite shunt. I actually removed the shunt from its holder and cut the shunt holder in half. One half of the shunt holder is now used as the "other" terminal on the 250 A fuse and the other half of the shunt holder is for the shunt's "other" terminal. Cosmetically, it appears as if a third terminal has been added to each battery and these third terminals are the ones that all of the loads to/from the battery pass through. This had the added advantage of eliminating more headaches routing the 4/0 cable.

I should take a picture because it sounds more confusing than it really is. It is actually a pretty clean looking arrangement despite the amount of wiring going on underneath the battery covers. I will wait until I get the 4/0 in there before taking the picture.

As for how I will wire in the inverter's AC side, my plan is to route 12/2 wire from the breaker panel AND from the inverter itself to the panel under the sink. There I will mount a 20A DPDT switch that will dictate which source (shore power or inverter power) is heating up all of the outlets in the TM. This switch will preclude having both sources hot at the same time and eliminate the hazard of a hot male plug being pulled out of the inverter when the TM is on shore power. I will also mount the remote power switch for the inverter under the sink and connect its ACC switch to the bathroom wall switch. This will prevent any potential parasitic load from the inverter when the bathroom wall folds down. This solution appears pretty simple from a wiring perspective and should be very simple for wife/kids.

I would have preferred something slightly more elegant wherein a relay would automatically do the DPDT throw to shore power whenever shore power is present (and maybe even a second relay to open the ACC switch to depower the inverter) but I have never worked with relays so not sure where to begin. It seems simple in concept but I don't have experience with them so I am keeping it simple. If any of your electrical geniuses out there want to explain how to work with relays I am all ears.

I might not get all of this inverter work done by the Pt Mugu trip but I am pretty sure I will have it done by my Montana de Oro two weeks later.

[M&M Hokie]

Good point Scott....

Mark - may want to consider adding a Wind Turbine to your user installed options :D

Don't encourage me....

The weather has been funny though. Can you believe that I had to wait until nearly 2pm on a July day to break 60 degrees so I could bond the panels to the roof? I thought the sun would never come out yesterday.

[OneMoBear]

Hey MudDog,

We still haven't decided where to mount our solar panel but I am wondering where you brought the cable down the front shell.

Thanks!
Malinda

[MudDog]

I bought a single MC4 50' extension cable with a male connector on one end and a female connector on the other. Just cut the cable in half and use the MC4 ends to connect to your panel and the cut ends to connect to your controller terminals and you're done without having to make your own connectors.

I bought the extension (and Y adapters because I had two panels to connnect to) on E-Bay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MC4-Solar-Panel-Power-50-Extension-Cable-M-F-10-AWG-/290441681539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439fac5a83

--jim

[OneMoBear]

I copied that and have it. I was just wondering at what location on the TM you brought it down.

Malinda

[MudDog]

Opps...sorry.

I think I had actually sent a private message to M&MHokie when he was doing his that described in detail how I ran the cable, but I deleted it from my sent items recently...perhaps if he still has it he could forward to you.

But, basically on the roof I used the plastic cable management that Wayne used on his latest install. I brought the cable to the back of the front shell roof right by the radio antenna and then followed the existing cable bundle down the roof line and left a loop where the black electric cords have loops so there is enough slack when opening the shells. I followed the black electrical cords to the bottom of the TM and came up thru an existing grommet by the fridge and then thru to the storage under the dinette seat where the water tank is on the 2619...that is where I mounted my solar controller.

[OneMoBear]

Thanks! Got it!

Malinda

[M&M Hokie]

I think I had actually sent a private message to M&MHokie when he was doing his that described in detail how I ran the cable, but I deleted it from my sent items recently...perhaps if he still has it he could forward to you.

I checked my private messages and do not have one describing cable routing. The messages I had from MudDog concerned LinkLite wiring with an inverter and the rocker feet used to mount our solar panels.

[OneMoBear]

No problem! Thanks for checking! I get it :-)

Malinda

[OneMoBear]

We're almost all dressed up with no place to go!

This looks pretty good to me under the circumstances. Yes, that is snow in the background (as in NO sun today).

Malinda

[Wavery]

We're almost all dressed up with no place to go!

This looks pretty good to me under the circumstances. Yes, that is snow in the background (as in NO sun today).

Malinda

Just a tip......Although a volt-meter may tell you if the solar panel is a dead player or not (as in zero volts.....no continuity), it has very little practicl value other than that.

I always suggest that anyone with a solar array needs to have some way to monitor amperage output. Your typical multimeter will not read DC amps.

Some people have gone ahead and installed expensive amperage panels that will also keep track of input, out-go and give you a pretty decent score as to how many amp-hours may still be in your battery (through a mathematical calculation). I had a similar panel on my sailboat but find them a bit over-kill for a small RV with a small solar system (just my personal take on it). Some people just love gadgets......:p

However, I would suggest that you do have something to tell you the quality of output from your panel.

I have found this device to be invaluable to me, extremely accurate and relatively inexpensive.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482369000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/PtMugu2-2009028.jpg

[scrubjaysnest]

We're almost all dressed up with no place to go!

This looks pretty good to me under the circumstances. Yes, that is snow in the background (as in NO sun today).

Malinda
From the pics that looks like my fluke, mine will do a 4-20mA output besides a 1 A input.

[Wavery]

From the pics that looks like my fluke, mine will do a 4-20mA output besides a 1 A input.
This one will do .01A to 400A. It's the only one that I know of that will do that. I've compared it with shunt type inline ammeters and it is extremely accurate.

It's hard to see the decimal point in the pic above but it is reading 47.2A as the output of my converter.

[scrubjaysnest]

We got our solar panels from UL Solar on ebay. $429 including a morningstar sunsaver 10 controller. The only down side is 12awg wire. Shipping was free.
Communications wasn't very good.

[B_and_D]

If you don't mind, would you please share the details of your purcase? It sounds like the costs have really come down since I last checked on prices.

[scrubjaysnest]

I'm not sure what details you are looking for but it is two 80 watt solar panels, the Sunsaver 10 controller, and 30 feet of 12 AWG wire. Plus the z brackets and a combiner harness, parallels the two panels.
The wire and panels meet grid tie codes. Best case output is 18.1 VDC @ 4.47 amps per panel. Don't count on that. The panels are poly crystalline which will work slightly better in partial shade or cloudy days than mono crystalline. Panels are tempered glass with aluminum frames about 24 by 36 inches.
The wire size is marginal at best and you can save some money by getting one panel with the controller and a 2nd panel. Then buy 10AWG marine grade wire some where else. If you go with Harveyrv's fixed mount system this could save you maybe $30. The sunsaver 10 may be a little marginal in full sun out west as you may begin to reach its 10 amp rating. A sunsaver 15 maybe a better choice. My system will be portable and have no room for expansion.

[M&M Hokie]

Best case output is 18.1 VDC @ 4.47 amps per panel. Don't count on that.

I have two 80W panels. While they are tiltable, I have never tilted them due to the practicality of getting to roof to do it. I have achieved in excess of 9A of charging current into battery even though the panels were not angled to be normal to incident sunlight and my current non-TM trailer has a parasitic draw of 1.0A. That said, I have the SunSaver MPPT controller which is allegedly capable of up to 15A current with 200W of array. Your mileage may vary but if you can swing the cost of the fancier controller, it may be worthwhile.

[scrubjaysnest]

I have two 80W panels. While they are tiltable, I have never tilted them due to the practicality of getting to roof to do it. I have achieved in excess of 9A of charging current into battery even though the panels were not angled to be normal to incident sunlight and my current non-TM trailer has a parasitic draw of 1.0A. That said, I have the SunSaver MPPT controller which is allegedly capable of up to 15A current with 200W of array. Your mileage may vary but if you can swing the cost of the fancier controller, it may be worthwhile.
Under ideal conditions the other day, panels angled to face the sun, air temp 52 deg. and crystal clear skies I measured 9.78 amps into the sunsaver 10 pwm controller. That was with almost 20 vdc at the panels. What would be more effective for small arrays is a tristar 45 pwm. This is much lower cost then mppt while having user adjustable set points. The two most important factors in getting fully charged batteries are 14.8VDC at the battery(s) and temperature compensation. The 14.8 is especially true for Trojan batteries. Interstate wants 15vdc for their batteries while other battery makers range from 14.4 to 14.8. I haven't looked at the sunsaver mppt but the one I have is fixed at 14.4 and isn't user adjustable.

[brulaz]

One of these days, we'll do the solar thing. This is the mppt controller I've been following:

http://www.roguepowertech.com/products/mpt3024.htm

Amazingly, it's made in Oregon, not China.

[scrubjaysnest]

One of these days, we'll do the solar thing. This is the mppt controller I've been following:

http://www.roguepowertech.com/products/mpt3024.htm

Amazingly, it's made in Oregon, not China.
The remote battery sense and remote temperature are good. Just noticed adjustable setpoints is good

I thought you already had a couple of solar panels

[brulaz]

Harvey has pointed out to me, with solar panel prices going through the floor, it would be more cost effective to just get another panel or two and the cheapest controller out there.

But I really appreciate well-designed electronics, and the Rogue seems pretty nice that way. You can get a usb adapter for your computer and go crazy monitoring things too. But that's my inner "nerd" talking.

The remote battery sense and remote temperature are good. Just noticed adjustable setpoints is good

I thought you already had a couple of solar panels

Solar panels are the last thing on my to-do list of upgrades. And since Everglades N.P. put in electricity, we have even less reason to go with solar panels. I may just have to take them off my to-do list.:(

[ShrimpBurrito]

I love the idea of panels, and that's certainly the route I would go before ever getting a genny. But so far, we've never run out of power with our Trojan T-105s, even with generous heater usage.

Dave

[scrubjaysnest]

Harvey has pointed out to me, with solar panel prices going through the floor, it would be more cost effective to just get another panel or two and the cheapest controller out there.

But I really appreciate well-designed electronics, and the Rogue seems pretty nice that way. You can get a usb adapter for your computer and go crazy monitoring things too. But that's my inner "nerd" talking.



Solar panels are the last thing on my to-do list of upgrades. And since Everglades N.P. put in electricity, we have even less reason to go with solar panels. I may just have to take them off my to-do list.:(
Wayne has a point, my 80 watt panels were $149 each and they are grid tie rated. The only thing I have against the cheaper controllers is getting the voltage high enough at the battery to get a full charge. This can be especially true for batteries like the Trojan T105's. On our TM the 8955 converter takes 2 and 1/2 days to bring up a single marine deep cycle and that is with no use of anything 12 volt in the camper.
I know in handybobs blog he rants a lot but one thing he is correct about, it's not amp rating of the wire that prevents getting a full battery charge, its the voltage at the battery to push the current in. I'm still testing my solar setup but the first thing I did was get rid of all the #12 AWG I could.

[scrubjaysnest]

I love the idea of panels, and that's certainly the route I would go before ever getting a genny. But so far, we've never run out of power with our Trojan T-105s, even with generous heater usage.

Dave
We went from the end of April last year until the first part of September without shore power. With a single marine deep cycle, not best for the service, I swapped it out about every 7 to 10 days. I have a second I charge in the TV while exploring the back roads. With the temps last year an O2 cool fan ran almost 24/7. The other major usage was LED lights and the famous toilet. The heater was only run 3 times for about an hour a day. The solar panels are being added primarily for western trips like this year. East coast NPS and USFS campgrounds tend to be pretty shady. We don't carry a genny, just can't stand the noise of even a quite one.

[rumbleweed]

I am using a morningstar ProStar 30 controller and am very happy with it. Has all the charge modes and as well as has the option of getting with built in meter. It is also nice as it has settings for three main types of batteries. I have no issue with sufficient charge voltage.

[scrubjaysnest]

Here are my test results of the solar panel set up we got. I replaced the 12 awg 30 ft run with 10 awg 22 feet. The Sunsaver 10 is mounted within a foot of the battery(s) and is connected with 8 awg wire. There is 3 ft of 12 awg from each panel to the so called combiner. The combiner has MC4 connectors and has two 1 ft pieces of 12 awg spliced, unknown how it was done, into a 1 ft 12 awg with another MC4 connector. This in turn connects to my 22 feet of 10 awg. For calculating voltage losses you double the number of feet. The current has to pass through both the plus and minus wires. Air temperature was between 69 and 72 degrees and as solar days go during the test it was mostly good to excellent with about 15 minutes of fair thrown in.

The battery was discharged by runing the refer on DC for three hours, this gave about a 50% SOC on the battery, or 12.26VDC measured. I don't have a hydrometer so can't measure specific gravity to get the real SOC.

1 panel 12.89VDC 4.78amps 2 panels 14.05VDC 9.6amps
Vdrop to controller 0.05 VDC 0.79VDC
Batt voltage 12.75VDC 13.05VDC

Remember when you start to charge the panels want to push as much current as the battery can take. This means the voltage won't start at 14.4VDC. As the battery takes on charge the voltage will rise until the controller can switch to absorption mode, 14.4 VDC for mine.

I started the test at noon and the controller was in float mode by about 3:30 pm.

Float voltage was 13.71VDC at 1.3amps

Absorption Voltage was 14.36VDC at 6 amps.

The system total volt drop is greater than the desired 3% or less and although it can be lived with on bright sunny days it will be a killer on cloudy days or in partial shade.

My best guess is to get rid of the MC4 connectors and run 10AWG from the panel terminals all the way to the controller.

My calculated volt drop was 0.5VDC or about 2.7%

Some further testing before we leave in March this year is required.


Went back and relooked at the figures, the panels were only generating about 135 watts on average. Loss from the panels to the controller was 6.6 watts and total watts lost was 9.6watts. So all considered maybe not so bad. The battery did get a full charge.

[scrubjaysnest]

Additional notes on the solar panels. I test them under adverse conditions while at Stephen Foster SP. I arrived with fully charged batteries. I left the converter turned off and for two and half days the panels never saw sun.
During the brightest overcast the two panels produced together 1/2 amp at 13.09 volts. This was just enough to keep up with our usage. Lights, Tetford, Water pump. With half a day of sun yesterday they produced 18.7 volts at 1.74 amps which is all the batteries would take. This morning I checked and the batteries were at 12.89 volts after sitting all night. The panels worked far better then I expected under the conditions. Need to find my Hydrometer so I have a little better idea of the SOC.

[Wavery]

If anyone is thinking of solar panels, this is a GREAT deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/80-Watt-solar-panel-charing-for12vdc-high-effiency-rate_W0QQitemZ220564769739QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item335aaf4bcb

I purchased 2, of these same panels from this seller (@ $240 each) and I can't say enough about them. At @ $209 (incl S&H) they are a steal.

1, 80W panel may be adequate for some, especially if it is not permanently mounted and you are willing to "Chase the Sun" with it. I permanently mounted 2 of these and have had quite impressive results and I'm NOT a power mizer....:p

This guy's prices fluctuate, depending on his inventory. If you are thinking solar, I'd grab them at this price.

What a different time this is in the "Solar world".

I just came across this post from 2010. I was thrilled about 80W solar panels @ $209 each ($2.61 per watt). Yesterday, I bought 2 NEW, 320W solar panels for $100 each ($0.32 per watt).

At 66"x 40", they probably wouldn't be a TrailManor match but it just shows how much solar has gone down over the past 13-years.

[Bill]

You are so right! Back in 2002, when my first TM was new, I paid $600 each for a pair of 80-watt Kyocera panels, and I had to drive to Flagstaff (300 miles round trip) to get them. I was more than happy to do so. Two or three years ago, I sold them to a non-RVer for $100 for the pair, and considered myself lucky to get that.

Bill