Factory installed 80watt solar panels (need quick answer)

[Gerry 1950]

The factory will start building my 2720SD the first week of August. I must make a decision by the end of July. This is my first camper and I would like to be prepared for any eventuality, however, I am on the fence concerning this option. I have read on this forum that the placement and weight of this equipment affects the torsion bar adjustment. Can this equipment be retrofitted at a later time should the need arise or is it better to have it factory installed.

[Redhawk]

Our local dealer told us they can install the solar panel option at any time. We have the option, and it seems to lift fine, but I don't know what it feels like without one??? I'm always of the opinion that you should order it the way you want it, I can't help thinking the factory would do a better install.

[Scott O]

I don't know who installed ours, but it works and lifts fine. It is an important option if you intend to camp without electrical hookup.

[PopBeavers]

I don't know who installed ours, but it works and lifts fine. It is an important option if you intend to camp without electrical hookup.Only if you camp in the sun.

All of my research suggests that since I almost always camp in a dense forest in a deep valley, any solar panels on the roof would get very little direct sunlight. Shaded solar panels produce very little power as far as I can tell.

I rely on my generator for about an hour per day.

If I were to camp in the dessert or the plains it would be a different matter.

[rumbleweed]

An alternative is to add a separate solar panel and controller ( 60 watt setup about $400) I built a collapsible frame from PVC I can locate it in the sun.

[Wavery]

I don't know what the factory charges for their set-up but you can buy 80W solar panels for around $300 each. If you want a regulator, you can buy one for anywhere from $15 - $125. Installing the system is not hard.

The panels weigh about ~10# and I doubt that would have any appreciable effect on the raising or lowering of the roof. If it does, it should be able to be adjusted out ~fairly easily.

[gocntry]

I don't know what the factory charges for their set-up but you can buy 80W solar panels for around $300 each. If you want a regulator, you can buy one for anywhere from $15 - $125. Installing the system is not hard.

The List Price For The 80 Watt Panel & Controller Is $1166.00 On Their Web Site :new_Eyecr

[Scott O]

Wayne brought up an important point regarding the output of a solar panel. From what I have read, output drops dramatically under less than ideal conditions. Any shade, cloud cover, even angle of the sun can have a serious impact. I certainly don't count on ours to supply all of our power needs. In thinking about it, I'm not really sure of the usefulness of the 80 watt panel...especially since our camping habits have changed and we always have hookups now. When we made our purchase 2 years ago, we intended to do some dry camping in the desert, so the panel made some sense. But I decided not to risk damage to the TM on the lousy desert roads so we don't do that, rendering the solar panel rather useless. But it is still pretty cool, and it should supplement the TV charge when towing with the refrigerator on 12v!!!

[rumbleweed]

A few thoughts on installed vs portable panel.

If you are using the SP to replenish battery you are not using the AC so most likely you will be parked in the shade at least in the warmer months. SP is of little value in the shade.

Installed Pros
convenient
Always with you
no set up

Installed Cons
Cost
Must park TM in full sun
additional weight & holes in roof ( potential for problems)

Portable Pros
Lower cost
TM does not have to be in full sun ( some limitations on distance)
Can be left home if shore power avail
No additional roof work
Can easily add capacity ( more panels ) if necessary

Portable Cons
One more thing to pack
Not as convenient
set up required

[Wavery]

The List Price For The 80 Watt Panel & Controller Is $1166.00 On Their Web Site :new_Eyecr

That's just plain outrageous IMHO........

First off, there is little value in a charge controller (regulator) with an 80W panel, unless you leave it hooked up for long periods of time without using power. It doesn't take a genius to unplug the panel if the battery gets to 14.5V, which it won't if your camping.

I had 4 - 80W panels on my yacht (which is no more than a big camper) and I had no regulator. Although, I did install a diode to keep the panels from discharging the batteries at night. I lived aboard for 14 years with them. They were in full Sun constantly (depending on weather) because I spent most of my time in the tropics. If I went out of the tropics, it was only during the summer.

Having the panels so that you can set them up remotely is an excellent idea. You must consider 2 things. Be sure to use adequate sized wires to avoid voltage drop and be aware of theft. I'd recommend buying a 100', 10G extension cord from a hardware store and use that to wire your panel. That way, you can plug & unplug it easily for set up and you won't experience any voltage drop under full charge.

[PopBeavers]

There was a discussion about a year ago on another forum, rv.net, regarding the most efficient way to keep batteries charge when boon docking for extended periods of time.

The consensus was to run the generator when you get up in the morning and run it until it switches from stage 1 to stage 2. Then let solar have the entire day to do whatever it can do to bring it up higher.

I thought that was a practical solution. The efficiency of the generators is highest during stage 1 charging only. After that you might as well turn off the generator.

If I recall correctly, if your solar panels are 10 percent shaded, then output is cut in half.

I run my 2000 watt generator for about an hour per day. But ti certainly is not using all of that generator capacity. So I really have no idea how much power I consume in 24 hours.

Someone with a Trimetric or Xantec may have some data about power consumption in terms of watt-hours.

[Wavery]

There was a discussion about a year ago on another forum, rv.net, regarding the most efficient way to keep batteries charge when boon docking for extended periods of time.

The consensus was to run the generator when you get up in the morning and run it until it switches from stage 1 to stage 2. Then let solar have the entire day to do whatever it can do to bring it up higher.

I thought that was a practical solution. The efficiency of the generators is highest during stage 1 charging only. After that you might as well turn off the generator.

If I recall correctly, if your solar panels are 10 percent shaded, then output is cut in half.

I run my 2000 watt generator for about an hour per day. But ti certainly is not using all of that generator capacity. So I really have no idea how much power I consume in 24 hours.

Someone with a Trimetric or Xantec may have some data about power consumption in terms of watt-hours.

We run our generator an hour in the afternoon (while making the 2nd pot of coffee) and an hour in the evening (so we can make our 1st pot of coffee off of the inverter, in the morning, during quiet time).

If I had solar I would want a minimum of 200W. Even then, I wouldn't leave the generator home. There's just too much chance of not having enough Sun or needing the generator for some high output appliance like the AC or longer usage of the microwave. I have a hard time justifying the cost of solar at this time.

If the gvm't gets serious about subsidizing solar installation on homes, I would probably put solar on my home and buy a couple extra for the PU. At this point in time, it costs about $40K to put a decent array on a home. You can pay a lot of electric bills for $40K.......I'd be long dead by the time I saw a return on my investment.

I think that if every home were fitted with solar, the price would drop dramatically due to the huge volume. I'm thinking an 80% reduction in panel cost and 50% reduction in labor.

[Gerry 1950]

Thanks to everyone! Your advice has been very helpfull. I have decided to go the generator route, if and when needed. My ordered 2720sd should be delivered mid- September and I am looking forward to taking it down to Ocean City, Maryland for a
"shake down" trip.

[gocntry]

My ordered 2720sd should be delivered mid- September and I am looking forward to taking it down to Ocean City, Maryland for a
"shake down" trip.

There's A Fall Trailmanor Rally (http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Misc/TrailBlazers/PDFs/AppalachianFall_09-25-09.pdf) In Williamsburg At The End Of September If You Have Your TM Delivered In Time. That Should Be A Good Shakedown Trip If You Are Around Other Owners Who Can Help You With Anything You Need :)

[Redhawk]

I guess it depends on how much electricity you use, but I just got back from my first boondocking trip with the TM and one of the most impressive things to me was the effectivness of the factory solar panel.

I apparently didn't get the TM electrical cable plugged in tight to the TV when leaving, so by the time I got there, the batteries were 1/2 drained from the fridge I assume. To make it worse, the first 2 days were heavy over cast and rainy. Still, the solar was able to bring the batteries up enough during the cloudy days so that I had plenty of battery power. The 3rd day was full sun and I got almost a full charge out of it. On the cloudy days, you could see the green lights start climbing as soon as it was light outside. Slowly, but climbing.

Granted, I don't use inverters (due to the high current demand) and only needed power for lights, showers, furnace and a little music. The others camping with me had basicaly the same requirements, and they had their generators running 1-2 hours a day.

I love the solar panel....

[paulgart]

Our favorite mod on our 2619 is the factory solar panel. We also have two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
While our boondocking experience is limited; in the evening we've washed dishes, showered, cranked the furnace, played cards under the lights with the stereo going and read books at bedtime, flushed the Thetford a couple times in the middle of night....and by 10 or 11am the next day even in wooded, cloudy conditions (Bodega Dunes) our electrical monitor shows 14.06 volts; i.e. fully charged.
We Love It!
Concur with Redhawk,

[larsdennert]

Depends how long your stops are but we can go four days no problem on the two golf cart batteries.

I had a big generator and never used it. I have a small gen now (it fits in the rear compartment) and occasionally use it.

[fischnet52]

I appreciate the info shared in this thread ... but I'm still a bit confused on the amount of power we should expect to be using. From what I seem to gather from a lot of the posting in the forum, it looks like a lot of folks do not boondock much. We, on the other hand, do so most of the time. We were a bit taken aback last summer/fall during our trial runs with our TM. I'd put a new, fully charged grp27 deep cycle battery in the TM. First trip was unusual for us in that we had power anyplace we stayed more than 2 nights. Everything seemed fine with battery use.

Next trip we boondocked for 2 weeks. Now we were used to getting 2-3 weeks easy out of our battery with out any charging in our Jayco Popup, using lights at night and occasional furnace to take off the morning chill. Well were we shocked to find that the TM ran the battery dead in 3 nights! Our use? One or two lights at night for a couple hours, a few toilet flushings a day, running the radio/CD player for a couple hours a day and of course the occasional water use (one shower each + standard washing).

It was a good thing we are basically tent campers at heart and still travel "prepared" with flashights and all, because if we had not had the LED space lights and flashlights, we would not have maintained sufficient power to flush the toilet, even with plugging in the TV and running for an hour every couple days! Guess the radio and gas sniffer just suck too much.

After talking to local RV friends and a couple dealerships, I guess this is normal? Especially when the radio is essentially on at least standby 24-7, the FM antenna is running 24-7, the gas sniffer is on ... and then some idot in TM design put lights in the toggle switches on the monitor panel below the sink! I need to eliminate those lights too ... anything else pulling amps I'm not aware of? Does the fridge pull any power as long as the fan is not used? I never have a need to run it on 12V.

I've added a Yamaha 2000w gen to our gear, but hate the idea of competing with the croak of the frogs and the birds every morning! To help curp consumption, I plan to rip into the TM to locate power wires and isolate the radio and its antenna to install a power switch for them. It's been suggested by friends here that I also disconnect the gas sniffer - still considering that - since we generally don't use gas other than the stove burners and seldom run the furnace. I've also purchased some LED dome light replacements. A local RV dealer carries them, they are a complete replacement, not just the bulb, for the switched dome lights over the dinette and in the hall and over the bed. Considering replacing the florescent units in the kitchen with a similar LED that has rows of LEDs instead of two florescent bulbs.

Appreciate any feedback from the more experienced out there!

[PopBeavers]

I have a pair of interstate RV/marine batteries that are group 24. In the summer I can get 3 days, so for a 3 day weekend I can leave the generator at home.

In the spring and fall, when we sometimes use the furnace, then I only get 2 days, so for a 3 day weekend I take the generator.

When you had the pop up were you measuring the battery state of charge or just running it until the lights went dim? I ask because if you were not measuring battery drain then you may have been damaging the battery by over draining it without knowing.

If you do not understand why you never at to over drain the battery then read "The 12 volt side of life".

I run my generator for about an hour each morning during breakfast to recharge the batteries.

These batteries are now 5 years old. So I likely will only get a few more years out of them. When I replace them I will upgrade to a pair of deep cycle group 27s. That will give me more battery capacity.

[rumbleweed]

Under no conditions would I disconnect the CO/ Propane detector, It used very little elect and as long as you have the propane tanks turned on there is potential for a leak. Certainly not worth the gamble.

[fischnet52]

When you had the pop up were you measuring the battery state of charge or just running it until the lights went dim?

If you do not understand why you never at to over drain the battery then read "The 12 volt side of life".

I run my generator for about an hour each morning during breakfast to recharge the batteries.



THX Wayne, This does help a bit. We had the Jayco for 12 years and only had to replace the battery once and I sold it with Grp 24 Diehard deep cycle still strong. The reason I brought that up was that the popup battery NEVER dropped so low as to give us dim lights. On the other hand, the battery in the TM dropped rapidly at the end of the 3rd day, so low the toilet suddenly would not flush and the lights were dim. Likely why the TV alternator would not bring it up past the "fair" light on the nearly worthless monitor panel! It never stayed at 'fair' for long ... a few minutes of a light or running the water dropped it to low again.

I'll spend some more time on the 12v site as suggested, but I do understand the battery drain issue .. which is why I think I will try to replace or supplement the battery gauge on the monitor panel with something that makes sense!

When you all charge using your generator, I presume you just plug the shore line into it, as I've seen many RV'ers do? I've gotten varied input on this. My generator produces a clean output and I'm told (by the dealer and some other RV folks) will do a better/faster job of charging completely if I use it to directly charge the battery from the 12v output, rather than rely upon the TM converter. I know this would entail putting a separate circuit in to switch the battery between the TM WFCO converter and the generator so there is a complete separation. On the other hand, if others here consider this overkill based upon their experiences, I don't want to spend time on that modification! The reason this has been suggested is that I'm told 1) that the converter uses a significant amount of the generator output just to run the converter and associated circuits prior to generator amperage being applied to battery charging and 2) that the converter will drop into a 4amp or lower charge fairly rapidly where the generator will directly apply 8 amps. I'm new to this generator/battery side of life, with just enough knowledge to be dangerous sometimes, so I'm grateful for any help to steer me straight!

We're hoping trips this year will be less aggravating and more relaxing!

Fred

[freein05]

I debated the issues of getting solar or a generator for our 2619 for a while. I went the generator route. Last fall we went to the Redwood Forest in California. We stayed in a state park campground. It was foggy and damp almost all day long. We would run the generator in the evening about an hour every other day. We could have went longer but we would run the heater in the mornings to take the chill off. Solar panels would not have charged the battery. We still have the original one battery in our unit.

We have a Honda E1000 and it provides plenty of power to recharge the battery. We do watch how many lights are on and keep electricity demand down. I may at some point fool around with a portable solar system as mentioned above. I have thought about doing it and was interested to read other people have also.

[Wavery]

I debated the issues of getting solar or a generator for our 2619 for a while. I went the generator route. Last fall we went to the Redwood Forest in California. We stayed in a state park campground. It was foggy and damp almost all day long. We would run the generator in the evening about an hour every other day. We could have went longer but we would run the heater in the mornings to take the chill off. Solar panels would not have charged the battery. We still have the original one battery in our unit.

We have a Honda E1000 and it provides plenty of power to recharge the battery. We do watch how many lights are on and keep electricity demand down. I may at some point fool around with a portable solar system as mentioned above. I have thought about doing it and was interested to read other people have also.

Probably a wise decision.

Solar should be viewed as an "Iffy" charging source at best IMO. If both gen and solar is not in ones budget, gen is definitely more flexible and reliable over-all.

[Bill]

Dextercath96 has been banned permanently for spamming. He/she was shilling an incredibly expensive and underpowered solar setup.

Bill