Blow-out damage prevention

[jacob mccandles]

I have been reading about the damage that can be cause by a tire blowout. What have you done to prevent damage if you have a blow-out.? I could use some suggestion as I don't want to replace the waste systems.

[B_and_D]

I built a sheet metal cage around our plumbing...just took a picture of it and will post it to my photo albums. That was one of my projects last year.

[ShrimpBurrito]

B_and_D - Thanks for posting the photo. I actually have been planning to do the exact same thing. I thought I'd add a piece of sheet metal to the back behind the valves, however, and screwing it to that part of the frame, to add strength. The back sheet can span only about 2/3 of the back of the cage, however, because of the gray water pipe.

Jacob - In addition to the abovementioned plumbing cage, you can also add mudflaps.

Dave

[Joseph]

is worth a pound of cure . . . or something like that....:)

Some of us use a tire pressure monitoring system to warn us if there are any problems with the TM's tires. While it is not a cure all it does add another layer of protection. Since I cannot see the TM tires all that well, and from what I have read concerning blowouts on the TM I doubt I would know it if a tire did go low and pop, I purchased the TPMS to give me an early warning. I would imagine that the TPMS is cheaper than redoing the plumbing. Good luck to you and happy camping! ;)

[PopBeavers]

What is the price of a TPMS? I heard from one source about $400. That is a little high for what you get.

My TV came with a TPMS, so I only have two tires to monitor, both on the TM.

[rtcassel]

See http://www.tirepressuremonitor.com/
$190 for the monitor, $50 per tire.

[mtnguy]

The Pressure Pro system works great with our setup. I have the unit sitting on my dash, and I don't need the repeater to pick up the signal. $290 equipped both tires on my TM.

Chap

[PopBeavers]

I see they have a 6 wheel monitor for 15 bucks less. Not much of s discount. Might as well get the 16 wheel version for the extra 15 bucks.

Since I have 2 trucks and 2 trailers can I use a single monitor and just measure the pressure of the other trailer assuming I am alongside?

[B_and_D]

Dave aka ShrimpBurrito, I'd like to see a diagram of your plans.

I beefed my cage up by using some very stiff wire along each edge and folded the sheet metal edges over it. You can also see the shelf brackets I used as additional bracing for the inside. If I had better tools and more time, it would be nice to put some 1" x 1/4" metal strips around each edge, bolt them to the frame, and attach the sheet metal to those. I probably should have painted it, too, and in retrospect, it would have been better if I had folded the sheet metal over so that it was folded over facing the bottom instead of the top. It catches moisture from the rain and the drain plugs.

Having a tire pressure monitor would help too, but it takes a while to slow down and get out of traffic, and sometimes tires can blow out in an instant. Ideally, having both a pressure monitor and a sturdy cage around the plumbing would be great. The cage cost me less than $15 and a couple hours of labor. I keep hoping I'll hit the lottery so I can afford more gadgets. I do like gadgets...

[ShrimpBurrito]

I'm thinking about something like this:

http://cdn-2-service.phanfare.com/images/external/4764970_2793316_48456330_Full_2/0_0_70ea7605c976a06eaa6e4412587d6fac_1

B_and_D - I also don't like the idea that dirt, rain, and drips from the waste tank would land on this cage. What do you mean, "it would have been better if I had folded the sheet metal over so that it was folded over facing the bottom instead of the top."

This design could probably be simplified a bit to minimize cutting, but I'm thinking of making this out of something like 14 gauge galvanized steel, and all joints welded. (I've actually been thinking of taking a welding class, but it's hard to find a class that is just designed to teach you how to prevent hurting yourself and doing a decent job vs. becoming a welder by trade.) I'm guessing the cost will be around $100, including welding labor and the added frame member. Definitely more of a premium vs. your $15.

I'm also concerned that this design may also "catch air" as I'm driving down the road.

Both of these problems would be ameliorated with a true cage-like design, perhaps made from 1" tube steel. It would be stronger than sheet metal, would allow water and dirt to flow through it, and wouldn't catch air. But there are alot more weld joints, so I'm guessing cost would be much higher. I thought about trying to modify one of those hitch-carriers to function in this manner, like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/92600-92699/92655.gif

...but none that I could find were deep enough to span the width of the tire and thus provide adequate protection.

Sigh...sometimes I feel we are doing jobs the factory should be doing....

Dave

[mtnguy]

I see they have a 6 wheel monitor for 15 bucks less. Not much of s discount. Might as well get the 16 wheel version for the extra 15 bucks.

Since I have 2 trucks and 2 trailers can I use a single monitor and just measure the pressure of the other trailer assuming I am alongside?

Wayne, if you have the unit on top of your dash, and if the 2nd vehicle were ahead or beside of you, it just might work. My Doran system will pick up the trailer from the driveway while the truck is in the garage with the doors closed, or visa versa. Beware though, that the tire sensors only transmit every 5 minutes or so if the tire pressures are within range, so you might hafta stay close to the other vehicle for a while until you recieve a transmission. Also, if they would be out of range during a pressure lose, or if you don't have good communications with them, then that driver would not know something is going on.

The Doran system does transmit almost immediately if there is a excessive lose (or gain).

Chap

[Scott O]

Jacob:
We have the exact model TM as you do and share your concern regarding tire blowouts. Before our next trip I am going to upgrade to 15" wheels, which I hope will minimize or eliminate the problem. Our dealer (Custom RV in Anaheim CA) is now doing the mod. They say the spare fits the holder just fine and there is adequate clearance in the wheel wells. Cost is a little high at $500-$600 or so (estimated, don't know for sure), but you can't really put a price on piece of mind!

[B_and_D]

Dave, both of your ideas look/sound good. I don't ever think I've seen an RV of any type with a cage around the plumbing. I've seen a few RV's with substantial damage from blowouts; it seems the bigger the RV (and the tire) the worse the damage can be.

B_and_D - I also don't like the idea that dirt, rain, and drips from the waste tank would land on this cage. What do you mean, "it would have been better if I had folded the sheet metal over so that it was folded over facing the bottom instead of the top."


The edges of my cage are folded over around the wire on each side. I put the side with the fold facing the underneath of the trailer vs. facing down towards the street. It creates another area where moisture & dirt could build up and remain, which would tend to make the sheet metal rust out faster. Probably the same thing would happen if it was facing the pavement, but it may drain better if it was facing down. I guess I could caulk it up.

[PopBeavers]

Wow, checking once every 5 minutes is not continuous.

I checked my tires at a rest stop. I put my hand on the tires and hubs to confirm that they did not feel too hot. I checked sidewalls inside and outside and all looked normal. I check as much of the tread as I could see and it looked normal. Tire pressure had been checked with a digital gauge an hour earlier when we started out and the tires were cold, so I just looked at the bulge of the tire and it looked normal. I did not check the pressure with a gauge.

One hour later it went pop. We could hear it in the truck with the windows up, a/c on, radio off.

If the pressure is only checked once every 5 minutes, then if the pressure drops at a random point in time, on the average, it will be two and a half minutes before it is reported. Worst case it will not be reported for 4 minutes and 59 seconds. Two and a half minutes can let a lot of air out of the tire.

From my experience, from the time an event occurs that gets your attention, and you comprehend what it is and you pull over to the side of the freeway in a safe manner, that will easily take 2 minutes.

So you start loosing air at a significant rate. You get an alarm 2.5 minutes after it drops below the minimum acceptable value. You are stopped 2 minutes after that. Is that soon enough to prevent a blow out?

Anything that samples less often than every 30 seconds is not a lot of warning, imo.

[Joseph]

There is a little bit of strange information regarding TPMS response times in this post so here is what I found on the system I currently have.

At the risk of being branded a sales person for Doran...:)

Taken from the Doran Website . . .

A Doran 360™ series tire pressure monitoring system is a compact system that delivers powerful results and protection. The Sensors are continually reading pressure and sending signals to the monitor about the air pressure in each tire around the clock. Each tire pressure monitoring system from the Doran tire pressure monitor product line consists of two basic components. . .

Key word being continually . . .

I cannot speak to what others have posted but here is a link if anyone is interested. http://www.doranmfg.com/tirepressuremonitorproducts.htm I test the system by removing the sensors and the monitor alarms instantly.

and if someone can build me a cage to protect that plumbing I'll buy it too!;)

Happy Camping!

[rtcassel]

http://www.tirepressuremonitor.com/details.htm states the following: The Sensors assess/read the air pressure in each tire 12,343 times every day! No other system on the market has this kind of coverage – most others only react to low pressure. Sensors assess pressures anywhere from 10 psi to 199 psi.

That's once every 7 seconds.

[wbmiller3]

I don't have the manual handy but on my model for sure the transmission is not every 7 seconds when the pressure is nominal. I know this because I plug in the panel and then screw on the sensors. It takes quite a while (way more than 7 seconds) to get the first reading.

However, when the sensors detect a significant drop in pressure (note clever use of word significant instead of a number because I don't have the manual) the transmission rate increases dramatically. I know this because a) I read it in the manual and b) I unscrewed the sensors while the panel was still plugged in. It took no time at all to get the alarm.

[rtcassel]

It appears that the TPMS reads the pressure every 7 seconds and transmits the pressure to the monitor every 5 minutes, unless the pressure is too low or high, in which case it transmits the pressure and an alert immediately.

[mtnguy]

It appears that the TPMS reads the pressure every 7 seconds and transmits the pressure to the monitor every 5 minutes, unless the pressure is too low or high, in which case it transmits the pressure and an alert immediately.

I didn't mean to mislead Wayne or anyone with my last post. I think this post by rtcassel sums up all of the other posts into a nice little statement.

Wayne, if you have a pressure drop, it will alert you immediately.

Chap

[PopBeavers]

I feel better about the data flow rate. Now I just have to justify the cost. I only have the two tires on the TM to monitor, because the new truck, 2008 GMC 2500HD, has it built in.

The other truck, 2002 Chevy 1500HD, does not have a built in monitor and it tows the single axle ATV trailer. So it would need to monitor 6 tires.

So I would need to monitors, 6 station and 2 station, plus 8 sensors.

Having had one blowout since I started driving in 1969, that is a lot of money for a rare event.

The TM blowout this year was probably caused by a combination of things:

1) outside temperature 106 degrees
2) Marathons were nearly 4 nears old and had been in service for 3 years
3) tire hit a small (we thought) pothole.

In hindsight we perhaps should have stopped twice to check the tire after hitting the pothole. Once as soon as possible to check for bubbles etc. and again 30 minutes later to check it again.

I don't think the tire pressure was very low, because it was quite a loud bang that we heard. It is my belief that it was a sudden drop in pressure when the tire blew, it was not a slow leak that occurred first, but there is no way to tell.

[angerlo]

Since previous blowouts of my 14” tires left dents and black marks on the underbelly of our ‘97 TM 3023 mighty close to the plumbing, I did the following to protect the plumbing:
- purchased one ½ inch rubber mud flap (24” X 30”) for $10.85 from Ryder Fleet Products.com (JKC 2430 HD)
- cut the mud flap to make two 12 x 30 inch flaps, then cut again horizontally creating 12 X 15 sections. I used a jigsaw with a fine edge blade similar to that of a hacksaw. Then I used 3M glue to fasten the two sections together.
- Bolted the now 1” solid yet flexible flaps to the outrigger part of frame using 2” stainless steel bolts and self-locking nuts. I hope this will protect the plumbing and underside of TM.
I also use a new Tire Pressure and Temp Monitoring System bought from Truck System Technologies Inc. for peace of mind. I keep my 15” 8 ply Maxxis tires inflated at 62 lbs psi when cold. On a recent trip through the broiling South the highest tire pressure read 72 lbs. and the temp went as high as 114 F. I do not know what the danger zone is and would love to have this question answered.

[TM Pilot]

angerlo,

Thanks for sharing your mud flap solution to protect your plumbing. I am going to give your idea a shot on my TM2619. I ordered JCK 2436HD from Ryder (http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/james-king-2436hd/mud-flap-anti-spray-1-2-rubber-24x36-p-jkc-2436hd). That will give me 12"W x 18"L x 1" Thick mud flaps. Will post pictures when the project is finished.

How are your mud flaps holding out? Any updates?

[MisterP]

TM Pilot

You might also want to review plumbing cages. Some members in the past had less than satisfactory results when protecting plumbing with flaps

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10254&highlight=Plumbing+cage

[TM Pilot]

MisterP,

I previously looked at that thread too. While cages are the better solution (yours looks great by the way) than mud flaps, constructing one is beyond my ability, tools, and what I have time for right now (even to hire out). I really like angerlo's idea of gluing two 1/2" thick mud flaps together to have 1" thickness for better results. And I may add to angerlo's idea and sandwich a piece of metal between them. I'll make that decision after I get the mud flaps and look them over. Even if I decide to build a cage later, having mud flaps installed in addition to the cage is just one more layer of protection for the plumbing as well as the mud, dirt, and stones. Perhaps the mud flaps is just phase one for me. It's better than nothing.

[Padgett]

Protection is good but the bottom should be within 1/4" of the bottom of the pipe and rounded on both ends as a skid should you lose a tire or drop it into a hole. Idealy it should be able to support the side of the TM.

If going to add a belly pan, might as well make it a skid plate as well.

[angerlo]

TM Pilot
Thanks for your post. My mud flaps have not been tested by any blow outs. I did add steel plates later. I purchased one 8 X 24" (16 gauge) plate of steel at Tractor Supply Co., cut it in half to make each section 8" long, painted them with a primer and black Rustoleum. Then I attached the plates using the existing bolts. Then later I added two more plates of the same material (22 gauge) steel plates on the plumbing side of TM to give added protection to that mud flap. Three plates total on plumbing side!
The plates are not only fastened at the top but bolted to mud flaps with three through all layers at lower edge of plates. This keeps the glued sections of mud flaps in place and still allows some flexibility for the four inches of rubber at the lower end. The bottom of the flaps are about 2" above the pavement. I hope it will never get tested.:)

[TM Pilot]

Hopefully, with those Maxxis tires they never will get tested!
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11083

Do you have any pictures of your modified mud flaps that you can post?

[angerlo]

Below are a couple of pictures of my mudflaps which I reenforced with steel plates at a later date. (See "Blow Out and Damage Prevention") under Tires, Tires, Tires. I attached the steel plates with 1/4" by 2" long stainless steel hex bolts, 1/4" self lock nuts and appropriate size washers. I tried to place the head of most bolts on the outside of the TM outrigger part of frame.
In the pix you can see that the steel plates are 12" wide, as wide as flaps. They extend 8" downward and are attached as high as possible. The 15" long flaps are not attatached as high. Notice also that the TM is now on jacks thereby raising the flaps a little more off the ground and causing the wheel to hang lower.
The picture with part of the jack showing is of the plumbing side. The other picture shows the door side.

[Lesherp]

I started out with mud flaps but after someone had some bad luck with theirs I went to Home Depot and put something together I could do without welding. Pics and info. are in my albums. I also have a tire pressure monitor and hope I never find out if my cage provides enough protection.

[Speckul8r]

You may want to read these old posts on this subject.
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14796&highlight=speckul8r
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10254&highlight=plumbing+cages
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13384&highlight=speckul8r

[Bill]

I started out with mud flaps but after someone had some bad luck with theirs I went to Home Depot and put something together I could do without welding. Pics and info. are in my albums. Gack! Great pics, but would you consider going back and shrinking them? Those pics straight out of the camera require more scrolling than I want to do, and I never do get an overall view of the installation - which is what I would like to have.

I know, about 8 hits on (CTRL)(-) shrinks them, but that is really not a good solution, and I don't know if it works with any other OS.

Just a thought ...

Bill

[mecicon]

What I created, have not had to test it's capabilities also helpful to prevent scraping on curbs.

[TM Pilot]

Constructed and installed 1" thick Mud Flaps today.

Two 1/2" rubber mud flaps were glued together and then sandwiched between two pieces of galvanized steel plates. Mud flaps are 12"x18". Galvanized steel plates are 12"x12". There is 3-3.5" between the mud flaps and tires. There is 4" between the mud flaps and the ground. My TM 2619 has the 2.5" lift kit installed.

Special thanks to angerlo and Harry Womack for their ideas.

[davlin]

TM Pilot,

That is truly one of the best looking ideas yet. I don't know if it would completely protect against any catastrophic tire failure, but it's WAY better than nothing.

May have to put this on my list....;)

Dave

[Redtail Cruiser]

Pilot, +1 on your mud flaps, but I agree with Dave on the blow out protection.

A couple of years ago, I was using my utility trailer to take a load of construction refuse to the dump. The trailer has eighth inch steel wheel wells, but when a tire blew on the freeway at 55 MPH, the tire bent the steel wheel well and pulled it inward, until it was only three inches from the rim. Needless to say, I couldn't mount the spare until I bent the wheel well out of the way (15minutes of 12 pound sledge hammer work).

So make sure that you always carry the tools to remove your mud flaps, just in case. ;)

[tentcamper]

I had a blow out with a camper back in the 80's that took out the pluming. It took out the two valves. PIA trying to find those valves back then. But now with the internet its easy. It was about $40 worth off parts and less then an hour to fix it.

I would think it now is less than $80 worth of parts. Unless you take out the fitting going into the tanks.

I have some 1/8 inch steel diamond plate I'm thinking of making a mud flap that will hang down 9." So the question I have is it worth all the cost and hours to fab and install a cage? Or by doing a steel mud flap will I limit my risk, and if I only break the pipes. I would be farther ahead with my time.

How many people have destroyed the gray water tank from a blowout?