Carrying a 5-lb propane bottle: mount it to the frame?

[ShrimpBurrito]

We always take a portable propane grill when camping, and I've been playing around with sources of propane. The 1-lb bottles are convenient, but they are expensive, wasteful (tank is only one-use), and I don't particularly like transporting propane inside the TM. I have an adapter to connect the grill to the TM tank....I've used it a few times, but I often don't like to grill 8-feet or less from the TM.

I have a 5-lb portable propane tank that seems to be the perfect solution. Refillable, small enough to be portable (8" in diameter, about 12" tall), and cost effective. But again, I don't really want to regularly transport it inside the TM, or the TV for that matter, because of not only a leak, but also the possibility of it becoming a projectile in the TV.

So I've started exploring ways to mount it to the TM frame. The best method I've come up with is to weld 2 pieces of steel to the tongue, on the underside, such that they will cradle the tank on its side, and cradle it low enough not to interfere with the front slideout. Then I'll use some metal clamp-on straps to hold it in place. That doesn't protect against side-to-side movement though, so I have to think about that more.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Dave

[PopBeavers]

I have the small propane bottle like you for the same reasons. However, since I tow with a truck I just carry it in the truck bed.

At camp I want to have a portable propane stove near the TM and a propane grill on the picnic table.

So I take one of the two tanks off of the front of the TM to use as my third tank.

Can you do the same? Perhaps your TM only has a single tank.

[Bill]

Dave -

Since my wife and I wander around in the Navajo and Zuni nations in Arizona, where gas is hard to come by, I needed a way to carry a gallon or two of extra gasoline on my 2002 TM. There are a couple photos that show how I did it at

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1378

It won't work on the newer TMs with the new bumper (I think 2004+), but on your 2000, I think it might work. I know that mine is gasoline and you asked about propane, but storage might be the same. Maybe there's a solution there for your question.

Bill

[ShrimpBurrito]

Wayne - I have 2 tanks on the TM, and yes, I could remove one to use for the grill. But doing so is a major pain. First, since the slide comes over the tanks, the tank has to be removed with the TM is closed. That means that if it's open, you have to close it first. Second, removing the tank requires a wrench to take off 3 nuts. It's not hard, but not something I want to do on a regular basis, and thus, I wouldn't take it off unless I knew I was going to use the grill (and thus might not take it off automatically before setting up). I want something that's easy on/off.

Bill - I thought about doing some sort of bumper mount as you did for the gas can. Nice job on that, btw. But it's going to get bounced around alot more there than on the tongue, but if it's held down with metal clamps or bolts of some sort (locking wingnut?), maybe that's not a big deal. I had previously dismissed that location, but I'm going to give it more thought, especially since the tank could be removed from that location regardless of whether the TM is open or closed.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Dave

[jumpstreet]

I don't know if it's still available, but a few years back cabellas sold an adapter that would allow you to refill a 1lb bottle from a 20lb tank. Used it many times with no problem. This was bought as part of a group and when I left the group the adapter stayed with them.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I don't know if it's still available, but a few years back cabellas sold an adapter that would allow you to refill a 1lb bottle from a 20lb tank. Used it many times with no problem.

Are you referring to this?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0013259512325a&navCount=0&podId=0013259&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=XJ&rid=&parentType=&indexId=&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=propane%20refill%20disposable&cm_ite=netcon

I've considered that. I've never even seen one used, but my guess is there is no pressure regulator in it. That means the small tank fills as long as you have the large tank open. My guess is that makes it easy to overfill the tanks, which could cause them to seep, particularly in warmer weather. That's also probably why the US DOT prohibits transporting refilled disposables (according to the Cabelas website).

On the other hand, how did everyone manage to not kill themselves before the OPD valves? Were they usually filled more than they are today with the valves installed?

I did find this:
http://www.safaritrailers.com/index.cfm?action=print&pageid=15

That would be easy to mount to the rear bumper.

Dave

[PopBeavers]

I see you have the SL. I have the standard 2720. One wing nut and a tank comes off for me. With the shells open. I see your problem.

[Bill]

Dave -

If you already have the adapter you mentioned in your first post, it is easy and quite inexpensive to get an extension hose in any length you choose. If you can't find one on-line or at an RV place, just go to a bulk propane dealer. Most of them will make this up for you on the spot.

Wayne -

The "one wing nut" approach is something relatively new, and appears on all trailers, I think. Certainly I have it on my 2006, and obviously you have it on your '05. But my old '02 didn't have it. The old "three nuts" approach was a real pain, and I greeted the new hold-down with great enthusiasm. Having to slide in the slider (you don't actually have to close the TM) to get a tank out is still a pain, but one I can live with.

Bill

[jumpstreet]

Are you referring to this?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0013259512325a&navCount=0&podId=0013259&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=XJ&rid=&parentType=&indexId=&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=propane%20refill%20disposable&cm_ite=netcon

I've considered that. I've never even seen one used, but my guess is there is no pressure regulator in it. That means the small tank fills as long as you have the large tank open. My guess is that makes it easy to overfill the tanks, which could cause them to seep, particularly in warmer weather. That's also probably why the US DOT prohibits transporting refilled disposables (according to the Cabelas website).

On the other hand, how did everyone manage to not kill themselves before the OPD valves? Were they usually filled more than they are today with the valves installed?

I did find this:
http://www.safaritrailers.com/index.cfm?action=print&pageid=15

That would be easy to mount to the rear bumper.

DaveThis is it. I have used it many times and am still here to tell the story. With a full 20lb tank you hook it it up, turn the 20lb tank upside down and open the valve for what ever the time limit was, I don't remember, then close it. Never had a leakage problem. I have no knowledge of DOT stopping POV's to inspect 1lb propane bottles to try and determine if they have been refilled or not.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I had resigned myself to using the 1-pound disposable cylinders since I could not find a good spot to mount the refillable 5-pound cylinder on the TM. We were out last weekend, and after I removed a 1-pounder from my portable grill, gas started leaking out the cylinder. Apparently, whatever self-closing valve is in the cylinder that releases when you unscrew the tank didn't close. It eventually closed after about 10 minutes, or at least I think it did, but not before most of the gas leaked out.

So I am going to stop using the 1-pounders while traveling from here on out, and just pack the 5-pounder in the car. The 5-pound has a manual valve, and while not foolproof (I've had a valve leak on the TM tank), I feel it's much more reliable than the disposables. AND, it's cheaper and I don't contribute needless waste to the landfill.

FWIW.

Dave

[PopBeavers]

You could, perhaps, install a propane detector near the portable cylinder. At least that way you would get a warning that there was a leak.

[Al-n-Sue]

Hi Dave - I've been thinking about a little storage setup for my trailer and it occurred to me that it might be a helpful solution for you. I'm not sure of the size and weight of the bottle (5 lbs I guess?:confused:) but it might work.

Our friends MarkandDianne (on the forum) had a steel mesh grill welded to the underside of the hitch between the propane tanks and the front of the trailer and they use it for storage of leveling blocks and such. I was thinking of the same thing to store my "lego" blocks and spacing blocks for the jacks. But depending on the size of your tank, it might provide a place to carry the 5 pounder. You could secure it with bungee cords or nylon straps.

Just a thought. If Mark and Dianne see this maybe they can post a photo?

Alan

[markandanne]

If you scroll down on this thread:

Link (http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7270&page=2&highlight=markandanne)

you will see some pictures of the expanded steel tray that I had the Car Show weld in the A-Frame of the trailer behind the 20 lb propane bottles. This was done as part of their welding shop's customization of the hitch (their own "swing hitch" chops another foot off the length of the 3124KB). I regularly carry a gasoline can for the generator in this space, and I think I could easily fit a 5 lb bottle of propane, although without additional hardware I would only be securing it with bungee cords.

I, too, use the 20 lb propane tanks with a hose extension for the portable grill, which is a pain. I think I'm going to get 1 lb disposable tanks and the 20 lb refill gizmo, because the 1 lb tanks are useful for lanterns and I'd like to get one for when our picnic tables are further away from the TM's lights (or even just boondocking). Although I agree that even with the disposable propane refiller the 16 oz tanks are probably still only good for a handful of refills before their valves leak. If I can find a box that fits in the triangular space on the expanded steel tray (maybe a tool box) that fits 16 oz bottles then I could still transport the 16 oz bottles outside of the TM or the tow vehicle; otherwise I’m stuck with the rear exterior storage of the 3124kb with the batteries, generator and portable grill.

Cabelas also has brass caps for the disposable tanks:

Link (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat602009-cat20079-cat280027&id=0013259518597a&navCount=5&podId=0013259&parentId=cat280027&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat280027&hasJS=true)

which has a few decent reviews and I may give them a try.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Hmmm....I may see if I can fit some steel screen like yours in the tongue. The storage area won't be nearly as large on my 2720SL due to the horizontal tanks, but it will at least be a spot to store wood blocks for chocking and leveling. The back bumper storage area is already maxed out, and it's also a pain to access as the metal plate doesn't come out easily. I could mount the 5-pound tank in the tongue area, but I was trying to find a spot where removing the tank would not be required when opening the trailer. With the horizontal tanks, I don't think that's possible.

Dave

[markandanne]

Oh, yes, I should have said that the main thing I always keep on the expanded steel tray is a couple of 2x10's and a 1x10 for throwing under the down-hill tire to begin the leveling process. The Leggo blocks for the jacks I keep in the TV. The 1x is a half a bubble, so I can get within a quarter of a bubble just with the lumber. I put the gas container on top of the lumber when I'm taking the generator. My propane tanks are shoved further forward than the stock configuration anyway, which gives me more room on the tray (even as the shells open and close), so maybe it won't work as easily for you.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I was also thinking about building some sort of storage compartment underneath the TM, perhaps like a drawer or hinged shelf. Kinda like the blue-tote carrier I saw someone here made. One side is hinged, the other side drops to the ground after you pull a pin.

I keep all the wood blocks in the TV now too. But I never fail to pack them on the BOTTOM of everything in the back, so getting to them when we arrive at camp is kinda exciting. Remove grill. Remove water containers. Remove box of firewood.

I thought about mounting this carrier (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92655) actually, but I took measurements under the TM and it doesn't fit. I can't remember exactly, but I think it is too wide to fit between the cross members, and I needed that because I wanted it to be at least as high off the ground as the axle. It's aluminum too, even.

Dave

[ShrimpBurrito]

I finally decided to mount my 5-lb propane cylinder to the tongue. I had 2 steel bars welded to the tongue going side to side, and a special hard-to-find cylinder holder from South Africa is bolted on those bars. The front TM shell will open with the tank in the holder, but the tank must be pulled out of the holder to pull out the slide (on my 2720SL).

The whole setup was not cheap, but I was committed to finding someplace outside the vehicle to store it because we travel frequently with the TM and for long distances, and perhaps more importantly, we often leave the TV/TM unattended while traveling. On hot days, the relief valve on any tank could open. With the tank mounted on the TM, it's undesirable but not a huge deal. In the TV, it could be disasterous.

If anyone is interested in doing something like this themselves, I can gather up more details and post pics.

Dave

[countrygirl]

Awe gee....no pics.

[Scott O]

This may be a dumb question, but I really don't know! Is there an explosion issue storing propane near batteries? The rear battery compartment in the SL is generally dead space for us, and if safe would be a great space to store a small propane cylinder. I really don't want to blow the rear of the TM off!!!

[ShrimpBurrito]

This may be a dumb question, but I really don't know! Is there an explosion issue storing propane near batteries? The rear battery compartment in the SL is generally dead space for us, and if safe would be a great space to store a small propane cylinder. I really don't want to blow the rear of the TM off!!!

I thought about that too. There is a small but certain risk of a spark back there, as well as the potential release of some hydrogen. Additionally, that compartment is not vented. The battery box is kinda vented, but the compartment definitely is not. So we're back to the keeping a tank in a closed vehicle problem, and that compartment is even smaller than a vehicle. So if it gets hot enough in there, the relief valve may open sooner than it would if it were outside for any given ambient temperature, and if it does, the propane won't have anywhere to escape. :D

For those reasons, I didn't put mine back there. It might be ok if you vented the compartment. Perhaps cut out the foam and metal in the floor and put some expanded metal there so that will be under the tank. Propane is heavier than air, so it will go right out the bottom.

Dave

[ShrimpBurrito]

Here is a picture.

Dave

[countrygirl]

Very cool! NICE job!

Like they say...if you can dream it you can build it!