Thetford toilet dump valve repair

[jimwilly]

I think I have a problem with the Thetford toilet when emptying the tank. The last two times we have had the camper out I have not heard the 'whoosh' when I pull the lever at the base of the toilet. Nothing happens!

However, when I pull the valve outside the camper to dump into the sewer connection the tank empties!.

I am of the opinion the lever inside the camper does nothing when I pull it....in other words 'it ain't working'. When I go to charge the toilet I believe the chemical I use along with the water to charge it goes all the way to the outside valve, which explains why it takes an abnormally long time to fill the tank to the green charge position.

My question is two fold. Do you think I am correct in my assesment of the problem?

How would one go about repairing the broken lever in the Thetford, short of taking it to the dealer? Are they difficult to take loose and inspect for internal damage? Has anyone done this before? How difficult a task is it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Interestingly, I too increasingly no longer hear the whoosh after I pull the lever at the base of the toilet, either. And when I open the cap that covers the fitting to which the sewer hose attaches, there is about a tablespoon of the blue stuff (but nothing else), which means it is leaking from the toilet. But why it's not mixed with waste, I don't know.

Here is a exploded view of the toilet:
http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/PermanentToilets/ElectraMagicModel80RVParts/tabid/361/Default.aspx

I took off part #9 to replace #10 and #13, and it was pretty straight forward. Just wear gloves, and open the window. The valve though actually seems to be beneath the body of the toilet, so that presumably means the toilet has to come out. Ugh.

Dave

[rtcassel]

http://trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5889

[Bill]

JimWilly -

When you pull the handle, does it feel like it is pulling something, or does it just flop around loose? From your description, I'm thinking it is pulling "something", and is not simply disconnected.

For both you and Dave, the problem is that the gasket on the Slide-EZ valve has torn or folded or crumpled. This is a soft rubber gasket (foam maybe)? that seals the outlet of the tank. When it leaks, the liquid in the toilet slowly drains down into the sewer pipe below. Hence no "whoosh" when you pull the valve, and the presence of the blue stuff when you take off the sewer cap.

You need to replace the gaskets. The repair instructions linked above will tell you how to do it. You can buy either a kit of new gaskets, or an entirely new Slide-EZ valve, complete with new valves. I was unable to find either at any of several RV stores or parts departments, so you'll probably have to get them directly from Thetford. You can find the part numbers in the last post at
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5890
And you're right, Dave, you can't get at it by disassembling any of the upper works. Take the whole toilet out as a unit.

While you are at it, you will want to replace the big foam donut gasket called the floor flange gasket, which Thetford carries as part number 24304. This part is usually available at RV supply houses, but the others (in my experience) are not.

Enjoy the process!

Bill

[ShrimpBurrito]

Sigh. Before I read this thread a little while ago, I was in oblivion thinking I didn't have a problem. Now I have to look forward to pulling the toilet. Ugh. And Bill -- from your last post in the thread you referenced, it sounds like I have to pull the toilet first before I can order parts, right? I presume Thetford isn't going to know ahead of time according to year of manufacture perhaps.

Thanks so much for pointing out that we have a problem. I'd much prefer to learn about it now vs. when we're camping and waste starts leaking out onto the floor. :eek:

Dave

[Bill]

Dave -

I edited my post, probably after you looked at it, to say that the plastic Slide-EZ was used after 1978, and the steel was used earlier. So unless you have a REALLY OLD Thetford, I'd say you are good to go for the plastic.

Bill

[larsdennert]

I'm in the same boat and haven't done anything about it. Mine slowly leaks into the pipe and the Thetford valve doesn't shut reassuringly. Bummer, 'cause I had it apart to replace the skirt recently. I'll bet the mounting bolts are inside that tank in order to pull it.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Thanks, Bill. I called a place up in Sacramento, and they had the Slide-EZ valve for ~$46. Just called them because they were the first dealer in CA to come up in Google, so tomorrow I'll check to see if a local place has them. What I think will be a little more challenging is the locator discs (or whatever they're called). I've been able to shift the toilet around ever since I bought the TM, so I am guessing that is what caused this problem to begin with. I can't even find a part number for those, so I may have to get the stuff from Thetford anyway....that just means I have to wait a week for the stuff, while I have the TM uncovered and setup at the moment since we just got back from a trip.

Lars - I don't think you actually have to open the toilet to remove it. I replaced the skirt also, so I know what you're talking about. Through Bill's instructions and instructions on Therford's website, the whole thing comes off pretty much in one piece.

Dave

[Leslie & Nick]

I think I have a problem with the Thetford toilet when emptying the tank. The last two times we have had the camper out I have not heard the 'whoosh' when I pull the lever at the base of the toilet. Nothing happens!

However, when I pull the valve outside the camper to dump into the sewer connection the tank empties!.

I am of the opinion the lever inside the camper does nothing when I pull it....in other words 'it ain't working'. When I go to charge the toilet I believe the chemical I use along with the water to charge it goes all the way to the outside valve, which explains why it takes an abnormally long time to fill the tank to the green charge position.

My question is two fold. Do you think I am correct in my assesment of the problem?
How would one go about repairing the broken lever in the Thetford, short of taking it to the dealer? Are they difficult to take loose and inspect for internal damage? Has anyone done this before? How difficult a task is it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

I had the exact same problem.

If you don't hear that 'swoosh' noise when you pull the T valve it probably means that the EZ Slide valve is remaining open (even slightly) when the T valve is in the closed position. The effect of the valve not closing completely is that the water/chemical mix gets past the EZ Slide valve and starts filling the black PVC pipe. The slide valve at the outlet is really the only thing holding back the contents of the toilet. If you've noticed that it seems to take longer to charge the toilet, this is the reason - you're filling some of the black pipe as well as the toilet.

In discussing the situation with the factory, I learned that sometimes a gasket in the EZ Slide valve gets curled and does not allow the valve to close completely. When I finally got the toilet out (the mounts were installed backwards, but that's another story) and the valve removed, I saw that the gasket was indeed curled and would not allow a complete seal. I had ordered a replacement set of gaskets from Thetford, and replaced the bad gasket. It's worked fine ever since, and I'm hearing the 'swoosh' noise again.;)

Nick

[wmtire]

I don't know who has the voodoo doll of me, but just letting you know that it is working. :)

After using my camper this weekend, I also didn't hear the "whoosh" when I pulled the inside handle to dump the toilet. I didn't really think anything about it at that time, and dumped from the outside as I normally do.

After I read this forum, I went back to check my toilet and even with the e-z slide handle pushed in, the water runs out as fast as I add it, if I leave the outside valve open. It's not a slow leak on mine, but goes out quickly. It still feels like the e-z slide handle is attached to something, and not just pulled loose, leaving the valve open.

Are there any suggestions, or does it look like I am going to be pulling a toilet out this weekend. :rolleyes:

Thanks

[Bill]

Bobby -

Pull the T-handle out and push it back in, firmly, several times. It feels "different" - crisper, somehow - when it is working properly. Sometimes (as in almost never) the gasket will unfold.

My guess is that you will be pulling the toilet soon.

Bill

[ShrimpBurrito]

But you may not have to pull it this weekend. It may take you until next weekend to get the parts. :)

Dave

[Leslie & Nick]

I don't know who has the voodoo doll of me, but just letting you know that it is working. :)
Are there any suggestions, or does it look like I am going to be pulling a toilet out this weekend. :rolleyes:

Thanks

Yeah, it's a pretty good bet you'll be pulling that toilet out sooner or later;)

BTW If you wind up calling Thetford, don't let the CSR tell you they don't have a replacement gasket set for that Electra Magic toilet - they do! The guy at Thetford I spoke to, first said there's no such thing, but then suddenly found the replacement gasket set part number. They want you to buy the whole new valve which of course costs more than the gasket set. I'd tell you the part number because I saved the packaging but it (and the trailer) are a long ways from here. Forum member, Virginia Deacon tipped me off regarding the availability of the gasket set. If you have a local Thetford dealer nearby you might get a better deal than ordering directly from the factory - strange as that sounds!:o

[ShrimpBurrito]

FYI - I had to call around a few places, but I finally found a dealer that had both the closet flange seal (Thetford part #33364) and the gasket repair kit referenced above (Thetford part #09872). A number of places I called either couldn't find one of the numbers or the flange seal was on backorder.

Contact info:

Arrow Trailer Supplies (Ontario, CA)
http://www.arrowtrailer.net/
909-986-3737
ask for Mike - he had to do some work cross referencing various numbers. In case he forgets, his supplier part numbers are:

flange seal: 83-9085 (Thetford part #33364) - $4.95
gasket kit: 83-8171 (Thetford part #09872) - $20.95

Shipping was $7.50

Thetford also has the parts for a few bucks less if you can get a hold of them. Shipping out to CA is also longer.

Dave

[wmtire]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll check with my local Tmanor dealer tomorrow and see if I am lucky enough for them to have everything in stock. I am about to go outside and try Bill's "almost never" remedy first.

I would take my lucky rabbit's foot with me, but how lucky can it really be. It sure didn't bring the rabbit good luck, now did it. :)

[cmc211]

Bobby, Sounds like you are pulling the toilet. Sounds like its the valve. Sorry

[jimwilly]

Thanks all for the great coments and advice. Looks like I'll be removing the Thetford and replacing gaskets and 'stuff' this weekend!

[wmtire]

Thanks all for the great coments and advice. Looks like I'll be removing the Thetford and replacing gaskets and 'stuff' this weekend!

Hey Jimwilly, we need to set us up a pair of webcams, so we can watch each other do this. :)

I was unsuccessful in my attempt to unfold the gasket, the easy way. :new_cussi

[jimwilly]

Hey Jimwilly, we need to set us up a pair of webcams, so we can watch each other do this. :)

I was unsuccessful in my attempt to unfold the gasket, the easy way. :new_cussi

What was the easy way? And why was it unsuccessful?

I plan on following the procedure I printed out from an earlier post. Is that what you did?

[wmtire]

What was the easy way? And why was it unsuccessful?



The "easy way" was what Bill referred to in post #11 earlier. I tried it and my gasket didn't straight out. I will be going the same route as you.

[jimwilly]

Thanks all for the great comments and very helpful advice. Now to work!

[ShrimpBurrito]

I got all the replacement gaskets, got all the tools out, mentally prepared myself to pull the toilet, and then flushed it out. Then it seems that the gasket flapped back into place. I filled the toilet about 5 times just to be sure I consistently got the whoosh after pulling the dump valve at the floor, and it was there.

I feel lucky. I don't really see a need now to replace the gaskets, unless I am missing something.

So the question is, how did the seal get messed up to begin with, and how can I prevent it from happening again?

Dave

[Leslie & Nick]

I got all the replacement gaskets, got all the tools out, mentally prepared myself to pull the toilet, and then flushed it out. Then it seems that the gasket flapped back into place. I filled the toilet about 5 times just to be sure I consistently got the whoosh after pulling the dump valve at the floor, and it was there.
I feel lucky. I don't really see a need now to replace the gaskets, unless I am missing something.
So the question is, how did the seal get messed up to begin with, and how can I prevent it from happening again? Dave

That's great! I would not, however, be too quick to return the replacement gasket set. You could find yourself with the same problem a week or a month from now:)

Going from memory here, but I don't know how that little gasket gets crumpled up in the first place. I would think some piece of 'foreign material' somehow lodges itself between the plunger/slide mechanism and the gasket. As you pull in on the T valve, the plunger/slide distorts the gasket.

This would probably make more sense to you if you actually saw the EZ Slide valve mechanism. But if the thing is working again, I'd 'leave well enough alone' for now. I've been using some of that Thetford 'Valve Lubricant' stuff in hopes that things will keep 'swooshing';) So far so good - I don't relish the idea of removing that toilet again if I don't have to.

Nick

[ShrimpBurrito]

Thanks for the response, Nick. Yea, I wasn't planning on returning the parts at all. I feel I've just delayed the inevitable, that's all. I thought perhaps that changing the seals now even though they seemingly are working would get me ahead of the game, but the new ones seem pretty resilient so as long as they are not damaged, I doubt it would help.

How often do you add the valve lubricant? The valve does sometime seem to take a little more effort than I would think necessary to open/close. Certainly more effort than the valves under the trailer.

Dave

[Leslie & Nick]

How often do you add the valve lubricant? The valve does sometime seem to take a little more effort than I would think necessary to open/close. Certainly more effort than the valves under the trailer. Dave

The Thetford valve lubricant is a thick, syrup like, red liquid. I've put it in twice, but I don't recall how often they recommend using it. I have to check the directions on the container again.

Yes, the 'T' valve at the base of the toilet does take more effort to operate than the black and gray water valves under the trailer. The valve lubricant for the toilet, is probably good for the exterior slide valve too (??).

Nick

[ShrimpBurrito]

Well, I ended up pulling the toilet anyway. I took the top off the toilet to take a look at the seal on the EZ Slide valve, and it was all shriveled up. That explained why it was a pain to slide in and also leaked down into the pipe. I've attached a picture.

It wasn't too bad, actually, especially thanks to the directions Bill posted. I made a locator disc out of a large washer JB-Welded to a smaller fender washer. The fender washer just makes a smaller screw hole, and the larger washer is necessary to fill the diameter of the toilet leg (which I think was like 2 1/4" or so). I also Dremeled out a new hole in the motor cover and re-rerouted the toilet wire from going out the back to going out the side by the gauge. The factory just jammed the toilet up against the wall, squishing the wire and causing the wire to rub up against the wall....that wore the paint off the wall and dented the wire.

The toilet is now definitely more firmly attached than it ever was before. I think installing a locator disc makes a difference.

Dave