Older models 3023 and 2720

[jdandmary]

We bought a van over the summer and had researched trailmanors prior to buying one. Unfortunately we are finding that the actual weight is a lot more than the dry weight. Doing more research I found that the dry weight for the 1994-1998 model 3023 and the dry weight of the 2720 up to 2002 is several hundred pounds lighter than the new ones. :(

Now we are currently looking for older models. Can anyone tell me what the actual weight of their older 3023 and 2720 really is with the options included? I would love to find that we could pull an older 3023 because of the extra room. We have teenage twins that are still growing. We have been searching since July and would like to find a unit that is pullable before winter break. Any input would be much appreciated. I have found a lot of good information on this site. :)

[camp2canoe]

jdandmary - you might advise as to the specifics if the van you will be using and also check the archives. There have been questions answered with reference to virtually every combination of TV and TM. - camp2canoe

[Bill]

jdandmary -

I wasn't aware that the dry weights had increased by "several hundred pounds" over the last few years. What numbers are you finding, and where did you find them? There is often a lot of confusion about dry weight vs loaded weight, and what is included in each one. For example, I believe that today's dry weight number includes a spare tire. Before about 2002, the spare tire was considered an option, and so was not included in the dry weight. Battery was probably the same. Propane tanks? I just don't know. But either way, you wouldn't go on the road without these, so switching their designation from "optional" to "standard" won't make any difference in the actual towed weight.

Bill

[jdandmary]

I found the info at nadaguides.com The new trailmanor catalogue lists the dry weight of a 2720 at 2742 lbs. The nada weight is listed the same. I started going back and looking year by year and found that from 1994-1998 the 2720 dry weight according to nada was 2355 lbs., and in 1999 it was 2465 lbs. From 2000-2003 the 2720 was 2555 lbs and it went to the current weight of 2742 in 2004. I found the same info for the 3023, which.....gave me hope that we could find and buy an older 3023 and be within our towing weight of 3500 lbs. We do not want to void warranty.

After reading your comments, I went back to the nada site to see what options were listed at those weights and evidently it was the dry weight before options. That is why I am trying to find out true weights from trailmanor owners. I am aware that there is a difference between dry weight, acutal weight with options and loaded weight with personal items. However, I am surprised at how many people I have talked to that are unaware of these differences. That is why I am hoping that owners of 1994-2003 model 2720 and 1994-1999 model 3023 will reply with the weight of their trailmanor including options. We are sure missing camping and are questioning our decision of selling our SUV and buying a new van based on info from the trailmanor site and brochure. But that is a decision that can't be undone. I like all that I have read about trailmanors for the past year and hope we can find one that will accomodate growing boys.

[Bill]

A fair amount of actual loaded weight information has been posted, but it can be hard to find. I think that most of it will be in the Towing Rigs forum, so you might just sit down and scan those posts.

I know that this isn't what you asked for, but I posted some info on my newer 2720SL here

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3144

Perhaps it will lead you to other info.

I owned a 2002 2720SL for a couple years, and then moved to my current 2006 2720SL. I'm not sure that I see any real difference that would account for more weight. In fact, I would have bet that the newer one weighs a few pounds less, because the contruction of the slideout was simplified. In comparing these two, it appears to me that the basic sandwich contruction is the same, the wheels and axles are the same, the appliances are the same, the propane tanks are the same. In other words, I can't see anything that would increase the weight.

Look for a post by Cheri (2BCS1JRT). She has an older 2619, and I think she posted weight info at some point. That would be another data point.

I'm not sure that NADAGuides is a reliable source for weight info. At best, it will simply restate the weight info that came from the factory, and now we are back to the "What was optional and what was standard?" question. The NADAGuides list of "options" is a precanned list that applies to all trailers, all years, so it is no help.

Finally, if your bottom-line goal is to buy a lighter TM, you will probably have the best luck by looking for a TM that was built without some of the heavier options. I'm thinking about the air conditioner, the awning, a swing tongue, and the set of interior options such as hanging cabinet(s) - and then pack carefully. And stay away from the slideout models - the slider adds some weight. And just as an aside, you might want to review some of the threads having to do with 3500-pound tow ratings, especially if you will be travelling with four adult-size people and all their stuff.

Bill

[B_and_D]

I'm pretty sure that our 1997 2720 has a stated unladen weight of 2355. It's covered up and tied down (and it's freezing outside) so I'm not going to look tonight, but that weight # really sticks in my mind.

I have two documents in our files that may be of interest.

The first is a sales brochure, copyright 1995 by Trailmanor, that shows the weight of the 2720 at 2355 and the 3023 at 2560.

The second is a copy of the original Vehicle Certificate of Ownership from the previous owners that shows the "scale weight" at 2625. The TM was originally registered in Washington State, so maybe that's something they do there before registration is complete? I don't know, we live in CA. Our particular 2720 came with the following options (I'm assuming they were installed prior to delivery, but I don't know for sure) awning, side a/c, spare tire and TV antenna. As far as including the battery and the propane tanks, I don't know. I believe that the dealer usually puts those on.

Hope this helps.

D

[jdandmary]

Thanks so much for putting forth so much effort to answer. I don't blame you for not wanting to go out in the cold. We are in Florida and would love a little blast of cold air. It has been hot so far. The NADA weight was listed at 2355 for the 1997. It's great to see that the brochure and the nada weight are the same. I had figured it would be about 300-400 lbs. for the options you listed. A scale weight of 2625 is very doable with our van. So....we will keep looking and hopefully find an older one so we could go on a camping trip during the kids' December break from school. I would love to find a 95-98 3023 because of the extra room. Is your trailmanor still in good shape? We had looked at a 98 2720 and nothing in it worked except the refrigerator and it had several leaks (bathroom, holding tank). The outside latches were even in bad shape.

[mtnguy]

Can anyone tell me what the actual weight of their older 3023 and 2720 really is with the options included?

Hi jdandmary,

The weights on my 2003 2720 as listed on the factory information sheet:

Apprx. Dry Weight Standard Equipment: 2590 lbs.
Apprx. Tongue Weight Standard Equpment: 332 lbs.

Weight per Title: 2705 lbs.

Actual Weights (including options of low profile a/c, 11' awning, TV antenna, hanging cabinet, microwave box w/drawer, stove cover) with water & holding tanks empty, propane tanks full, and lightly loaded (some pots, pans, and dishes, bed covers, some other camping supplies, chock blocks, but no foodstuff.....total estimated weights @ 200 lbs):
3335 lbs. total weight of TM. (2920 lb. axle weight)
415 lbs. tongue weight.

I wonder if the dry weight that TM gave on the spec sheet and title work was actually the axle weight, and not the total weight. All of these figures kinda add up better if that is the case.

Hope this helps.

Chap

[rtry9a]

The only real difference Ive noticed with the new and old 3023 involves the seating- the older model used two chairs and a built in tv cabinet instead of the current bench on the pass side front. The chairs seem heavy to me; I wonder if the pair are heavier or lighter than the bench?

[Frenchy]

I owned 98 3023 for seven years. Every time I weighed it, the weight on the tires was about 3300 pounds before loading up and 3700 pounds ready to go. The only water included was the 2 gallons in the toilet. The 3300 pounds included a roof top AC, spare tire, two golf cart batteries, propane, awning and basic camping needs like bedding. I would have considered this my "dry" weight. I never weighed the tongue but I would guess it to be 300 to 400 pounds. This would mean a total towing weight of 4000 to 4100 pounds. I don't think the weight of TM's have changed much since they started making them so I don't think the older TM's are any lighter, they just didn't have or include options or batteries and propane in the dry weight.

[Mr. Adventure]

They're using more aluminum and less wood these days. In the good old days, RV mfrs were pretty sloppy about the label plates, but not any more. Does anybody have any reason to doubt the published dry weights posted in the brochure? (obviously, they don't include options, water, and propane)

[Bill]

I don't think the weight of TM's have changed much since they started making them so I don't think the older TM's are any lighter, they just didn't have or include options or batteries and propane in the dry weight.JD and Mary (and others) -

I think Frenchy has summed it up pretty well. Older trailers weren't significantly lighter, they just were't as well equipped.
And although Chap touched on it, you have to remember that the actual towed weight of the trailer includes not only the dry weight plus options, but also includes all the "stuff" you load into the trailer. Food, clothes, dishes, tools, bedding, a TV, your rock collection - anything that goes through the door increases the weight. And four people will bring a surprising amount of "stuff".

In addition, you have to remember that a tow vehicle rated to tow 3500 pounds won't actually tow anywhere near 3500 pounds. Take a look at your vehicle owner's handbook, or the manufacturer's web site. There is always a carefully-worded caveat saying that in order to determine what it can actually tow, you have to start with the stated towing weight, then subtract the weight of all the options on the vehicle (both factory and aftermarket), all the passengers except the driver, and all the cargo that you put in the vehicle. This total can easily reach 1000 pounds, leaving you with - nothing useful. And yet it is, at best, almost certainly a flatlands tow rating.

Yes, people do tow 3500 or 4000-pound trailers with a 3500-pound-rated vehicle, and you can find their stories on this board. Is it safe? Is the tow vehicle (and its warranty) happy? Can you tow reasonably in any kind of mountainous terrain? My guess is "Not really" on each count. But of course, YMMV.

Bill