TORSION BARS

Im experiencing a great deal of difficulty lifting the front shell of my 1987 M25 TM.  Two people can just about lift it.  Does this indicate a need to replace the torsion bars or is there an adjustment that can be made?  Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you!!!

Granted I don't know if something is wrong with your bars, but they are adjustable. Look under your trailer, you will see that each bar comes down the outside of your trailer, curves under your trailer, then across to the other side. On that other side, where the bar ends, is a large bolt. You screw that bolt in and out to adjust tension on the bar. Try to adjust both sides the same. The bolt puts a "twist" on the bar, for lack of a better word. Just like raising or lowering the front end of an old Chrysler or Dodge.


Hope that helps

Mack

[Happytrails]

As per Trailmanor, shims need to be put in.........I've got all the info on it straight from them on the issue, and will be posting it soon......... ::)

[Happytrails]

Just out of curiosity....how's the wood in the front shell? When you go to lift the front section, does it stop where it's supposed to by itself? Just curious, mine's only 1 year older than yours is. I recently saw one on the net that was a 1987. I think it was going for around $8,000.00. It stopped showing up so I assume it got sold. Was it you that bought it? Just wondering. Mine was severely neglected, and I'm having to do a lot of work to it, but I don't mind. I still don't have hardly anything in it! I've got a lot of info on the older TM's on my web page, and will be posting some stuff on the shims and such as soon as I can get my notes from work scanned in.

http://members.aol.com/br768

Happytrails........

I have noticed after raising the front section it does not remain level.  I have traced the problem back to what I believe is a missing "Pocket stop".  I have purchased my trailManor used and would like to know how I could order such a part from the manufacturer.  Can you provide a phone number?

I am interested in how you installed /shimed the pocket stops to ensure a proper alignment.

JT

JT,

The phone number is (865) 426-7426.  I'm sure they will fix you right up.  I'd ask for Jimmy Davis.

Happy Trails..........George

[Happytrails]

If you look on my website link, you'll see a picture of the "replacement" pocket stop. What you have in there now is wood, with a little rubber bumper screwed into it, when you raise it up the "L" shaped travel arm bumps up into the rubber bumper. When you say it's not level.....is that side to side? or front to back? If the wood up in there is still good, all you need to do is put a 1/8" shim under that rubber bumper for every 1" of travel forward in the front 4, or depending......if it seems to be "Twisting" it may just need them on one or the other pocket stops. If your wood is good, I'd not worry about installing the pocket stops, you don't need them....just need the shims. (Which means you *will* have to remove the good wood to make room for the stops.....no easy chore as it's vacumed pressed and laminated in there along with a ton of contact cement). The wood's so rotted in mine, I'd wager my lift arms are going into the styrofoam underneath the wood, so in my case, I did need the stops. They cost only 10 bucks apiece. To see the wood, you will have to have the trailer shells lowered, and lay on your back with a flashlight. You should be able to peep in there and tell if the wood is good or not. When I first opened mine up, the front section fell so far forward, there was a 3 foot gap between the back of the front shell, and the front of the rear shell.....yeah, three feet of *sky*. Pocket stops stop forward travel, not side travel.....if yours is going to the side, I'd check the wood in the roof/wall. Donny explained all of this to me down at Trailmanor. if it's properly secured......wall to roof.....it won't go side to side......forwards and backwards is all about the  pocket stops and how much "shims" you need under the rubber bushing that they bump against. Hope this helps.......

Happytrails........

[Happytrails]

BTW, not all TM's have the same way of adjusting the torsion bars.....some do use that screw, others like mine and other older ones just use shims. If you look under your TM, more than likely you already have some in there, either that, or the screw type deal.....either way, look at the small tube that comes out of the frame where the torsion bars end up.....According to the diagram faxed to me by Donny at TM themselves, for positive preset, (I would guess more lifting power), you would put a shim on TOP of the side of the torque tube that goes to the travel arms, and a shim on the BOTTOM of the side of the torque tube where the ends of the  torsion bars come out. For negative preset, (I would guess, less lifting power), just do the opposite. There is a side note here that on 1994 models, there are no shims, just the bolt.....tighten to lift, losen to remove lift. Also all of this is done with the trailer in the OPEN position ONLY! The shims are held in place with nothing more simple than those little hose clamps that look like radiator hose clamps, only smaller......Hope this helps!

Happytrails.......

[Happytrails]

P.S.......the side note about 1994 models might mean 1994 and higher, dunno.......but probably.....

Happytrails........

Thanks for the INFO.


My Front shell was not level side to side.  I taped a 3/4 in  piece of wood to the top of the torsion bar (front on door side) with top shell down.  This worked well,  In fact it also helped to align my door.  I havent called down to the factory yet.  I guess I will put together a list first.

Thanks agian for the help,  

JT    

[Happytrails]

3/4"??? With the top lowered, take a flashlight, and see if you can see the little rubber bumper up in there.....that's about how thick it is supposed to be. Perhaps it came out. Also, check the condition of the wood, you might just need new pocket stops....if the other wood's good, they're a breeze to install.


Happytrails.....

[KB7OUR]

The back roof section of our new TM is a bit hard to finish lifting (opening) the last 6 to 12 inches. I have to get underneath it and push it out the rest of the way so it lines up with the side latches. Does this indicate that a torsion bar adjustment is required?

Wade

[Denny_A]

The back roof section of our new TM is a bit hard to finish lifting (opening) the last 6 to 12 inches. I have to get underneath it and push it out the rest of the way so it lines up with the side latches. Does this indicate that a torsion bar adjustment is required?

Wade

Yes! Here's what I posted about adjustment a while back and ammended for your case:

Look at the underside of the frame. You will see large bolt heads projecting straight down toward the ground. Two front  and rear, and 4 in the center. Or, 4 on the left and 4 on the right.  

The bolts are cranked in or out, as needed, to adjust the torsion which will develop when the shells are "closing", while being made ready for towing. Adjustments should  be made with the shell up (low/no torsion load), and only in small increments.

With the shells raised (min torsion) adjust the bolt "in" to increase torsion and "out" to reduce. The Torsion rods extend all the way across the underside of the frame.  

So, let's say the torsion of the aft shell needs to be increased. Raise the the rear shell. At the rear most lift bars, look under the trailer and find the 2 bolt heads. Turn the left (Rt) bolt IN about 1/2 turn. Do the same on the other.  Lower the shell and then raise it. Note change, if any to the ease of lifting. If it improved, but still needs more adjustment, then adjust the forward lift torsion bars - of the rear shell. Use the same amount of adjustment - 1/2 turn. Recheck the opening forces.

At this point, all four bolts have been adjusted equally. If further fine tuning is needed, it becomes twist-and-try . Maybe all bolts need another 1/2 turn, or possibly a quarter tun has to be removed from each. Just take it slow, and keep track of how many turns of torsion were added/subtracted to/from each bolt.

If one side of the shell (say center, curb side) becomes cattywampus when closing and is difficult to latch, then the bolt for that one torsion bar should be adjusted individually. When complete, the shell should open easily, as advertised, and when closing, both of the forward portions should come to rest so that the shell is level.

Forgot to mention - each bolt is on the opposite side of the trailer from the lift bar it assists!


HTH ==== Denny_A

[Larry_Loo]

::) ::)
Blame it on Happytrails! All this talk about "Pocket stops" and rubber bumpers and shims.

Ever since we got our used 1999 3124KS 18 months ago, whenever we raised the front shell, it would open up and swing over 3" too far forward. We thought it was normal for us to have to force it back until we could align it and lock it. Then Happytrails began all this talk about his TM opening up to show a 36" gap between the front and rear shells (am I correct?) and pocket stops, missing bumpers and shims. That eventually got me to thinking: our TM only swings 3" beyond where it should stop, but, maybe there's a pocket stop problem with it. I never got down on my back, however, to inspect the pockets (has to do with bad memories of doing my own auto repairs in my younger days), but decided to take it to Dinuba RV to have them check it out and fix it. Dave at Dinuba RV examined it and told me that it appeared that the entire front wall on the driver's side had been replaced. One of the reasons he came to this conclusion was that the torsion bar pockets on the curb side were the older, wood-framed pockets but those on the driver's side were the newer, metal-framed ones. And, he remarked, there were no adjustment bolts and NO RUBBER BUMPERS under the stops of the driver's side! He explained that the absence of bumpers made the torsion bars and shell on the driver's side move too far forward. Sure enough, when we measured the distances between pins and locking bars on both sides, the pin on the curb side was 1" too far forward and the pin on the driver's side was 3-1/2" too far forward. In time, he said, the front shell's jarring forward would also tear out some of the internal bolts on that side. The correct fix would be to drill a 3/8" hole and weld a nut over the hole in the short, upper leg of each torsion bar. Then screw a bolt into each nut for an adjustable bumper pin. Also, a rubber bumper pad would have to be screwed into the upper end of the pocket stop. He didn't have the equipment to weld the nuts on. No problem, I explained, I have a lot of welding equipment at home and can easily do that. Dave gave me a couple of rubber bumper pieces and wouldn't take any money for his examination and advice - about 30 minutes worth, including a phone call to Donny at the TM Factory. I then went into their store and bought some traveling items and topped off my propane tanks - about $30 altogether. I figure that I got the merchandise free since Dave gave me at least that amount of free advice. Those people at Dinuba RV are just great. They conduct business with an old-time business philosophy that most other businesses feel is outdated now.

At home, the next day, I had to get down on my back to look up into the pockets on the driver's side. I saw that, compared to the other side there were no rubber bumper pads in these pockets. But, what shocked me was that some idiot had driven 3 sheet metal screws through the inner wall of the rear pocket. They protruded about 1/4 into the pocket. Two were too high up to do any damage but the shart point of the lower one had scored the inner surface of the torsion bar. I now was convinced that this wall must have been repaired by some non-TM dealer whose employees didn't know what they were doing. Putting together the repaired wheel well (I detected many months before this) on this side and the repaired wall began to make sense: the blowout may have caused an accident that  toppled our trailer over on its side.

Because we're going to leave on a trip in 2 days, I decided on a temporary repair: just glue into the top of each pocket a bumper block. The combined thickness of rubber and wood would be 1-1/8", just like the blocks in pockets on the other side. It took me a lot of time to file down the screw points since the offending one was 5" deep in the pocket. After gluing in the bumper blocks, we raised the front shell. Lo, and behold, the shell stopped within a half inch of where it was supposed to stop!

If my glued-in bumper blocks don't fall out, they'll remain my permanent solution.

I wouldn't have gone to all of this trouble in looking into this if Happytrails hadn't mentioned his pocket stop problems. But now I've fixed a problem I didn't even know I had (and probably prevented more future damage) - thanks to you, Happytrails!  ;D ;D

[Happytrails]

Larry, yes, had you said you were having one side go too far forward, I would have known right off you were missing one of the rubber bumpers in your pocket stop. According to TM, 1-1/8th inch shim under that bumper limits the forward travel by 1". (That is applied under all 4 of the pocket stops in whichever shell you're concerned with). On another note, an easier way to deal with a screw like that is rather than file it down, get up in there with some bolt cutters and cut it off, takes about 5 seconds!  ::) Anyway, here's what I finally did with my pocket stop replacements: http://members.aol.com/br1172/ind4.htm There's some good pictures of the replacement stops, and how I affixed the rubber bumper in it. On another note, a friend of mine came over and helped me to get my TM open again so I can finally finish the work on it. I'm just waiting on my hand to get better and I'll have it finished in no time!  8)

Happytrails..........