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meriflower
10-09-2006, 10:47 PM
Hi! Current owner of a popup and enjoy the towing ease of the popup but hate the issues of the canvas. Hence looking at TMs! Does anybody know how much weight the bed ends can support? For instance, on my current popup, the bed ends can support up to 1000 pounds. Not saying that any of us would come close to that figure :eek: but just want to know!

meriflower
10-10-2006, 12:54 PM
I placed a call to TM and they told me that the beds are rated for 600 # but are tested at 1200 #.

meriflower
10-10-2006, 07:26 PM
Pop-ups are very good camping units, but the TM is a big step up....

No kidding! Especially the price - yikes! :eek2:

Doug W.
10-10-2006, 08:18 PM
Yes, they are expensive, but they keep their resale value. It also costs more to build a trailer that light not to mention the fact that it folds up. I know popups fold up also, but they do not have the weight of a hard sided trailer to deal with.

meriflower
10-11-2006, 09:49 AM
Yes, they are expensive, but they keep their resale value. It also costs more to build a trailer that light not to mention the fact that it folds up. I know popups fold up also, but they do not have the weight of a hard sided trailer to deal with.

TrailManor states the same thing on their website under the FAQ section. They do not however have any real numbers or data to back that statement up so perhaps just a marketing ploy. I did a quick search using NADA online guides on retail values on a TM 3023 for years 2001-2006, I found that it fared no better or worse than any other RV.

Interestingly enough, on another TM forum (Yahoo) there is an owner of a TM who said that they are now a "disgruntled TM owner as they were told how TMs retain their value". They found out the value of their TM when they went to trade it in for another type of RV. They said they are now "$8000 negative equity" and can't dig themselves out of that "big fat hole" and will now have to keep TM or "win the lottery".

This is not a negative on TM but I do know that any RV (or car) does not retain their value. You lose thousands just driving them off the lot.

Bill & Lisa
10-11-2006, 10:49 AM
I replied to Tracy on the Yahoo site as well. She quoted a "trade in" price of $11,800 on a 2004 3023. I looked up the NADA "average" retail and it came in just under $20,000 with a low retail of $16,900. I guess it depends on what you wish to base your "value" of a used anything on. If you are going to base it on what a dealer will give you I don't think you will ever get more than you owe on vehicle of any type until you get very close to being paid off - definately not with in two years.

I also question the good deal she got either on her initial purchase or on the "standard" RV loan. She claimed to have purchased at several thousand dollars under MSRP but still owed over $25,000 after 2 years of payments. That seems to be a high balance to me but whether it is because she didn't get such a great deal initially or didn't get a very good loan it is hard to tell.

She owes as much as on her 2004 as I owe on my 2006 and I have a 20 year note on mine and rolled in taxes and every other thing I could into the loan amount.

IMHO all vehicles take a nose dive on values in the first couple of years but TMs seem to level out quicker than others. I would be interested in some of the specifics you found on 2001 TTs and TMs.

Bill

fcatwo
10-11-2006, 12:13 PM
I've read that RVs in general depreciate 2% of their "current" value each month and most of the first year's depreciation occurs the day you drive/tow it off the lot. Minimum down payments often cover no more than the sales tax, registration etc that is added on the top so a negative equity situation is inevitable durine the early years of ownership in most cases. TM's are easy to sell by owners to private individuals but only at depreciated bargain prices.

A Ford dealer I know said the ADM (additional dealer markup) sticker on the window of their new cars is there so they can swing a deal with people who owe more on their trade-in than it is worth so it doesn't just happen with RVs.

meriflower
10-11-2006, 03:00 PM
Bill - The NADA book that dealers use, the options (awning, AC, etc) are "standard" whereas the NADAguides.com gives you $$ for the options. Why NADA does this - I don't know?! We ran into this same issue when we were selling our TT. A dealer did sat down and explained it to us. He also stated that MANY of times they will receive calls from prospective buyers who say they are looking at ABC trailer for X amount of dollars - is that a fair price? The dealer looks up the trade-in value using their NADA book and tells the buyer what they would give for it. Since there's such a disparity between the prices the buyer thinks you (the seller) are asking too much, and asks you if you will lower or just moves on.

So for the price on Tracys' 2004 3023 TM, do not include the options and you will get the price that the NADA "book" lists and dealers and buyers (those who research) use. Low retail is $12,950 and the average retail is $15,600. This is why I say that TM's fare no better or worse that other RV's. Not saying anything against TM - it's just the way it is for cars and RVs. For 2001 pricing, all were within a couple thousand from each other and I didn't do anything real extensive. Obviously Tracy learned a costly lesson about depreciation and upside-down loans.