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Douph92
03-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Are the listed lengths of the TM models bumper to bumper or bumper to tongue? Also, the TM website states that a TM 2619 will fit in a 17 1/2 garage with the swing around tongue. Would a 2720 model be able to fit in my garage if I have about 19 feet 4 inches to give, if I have the swing around tongue?

rpcoombs
03-12-2006, 10:12 AM
TM closed length (first two digits of the TM model number) is from the tip of the tongue to the rear of the rear bumper (when closed). If you add a rear hitch then add on about more inches or so. The swing around tongue reduces the TM lenght by two feet if I recall. Do the math and a TM2720 with swing around tongue should fit in your garage as far as length goes but you may have to back it in in order to have room to swing the hitch around and close the garage door. Watch your overhead door's clearance with the air conditioner. You can usually adjust a door to gain an inch or two more clearance if neeed and some have even taken air out of the tires as a last resort. Good luck Cheers, Dick Coombs

PopBeavers
03-12-2006, 10:22 AM
I have a 2005 2720 with rear hitch, swing tongue, 2 inch lift kit and a/c in my garage. I *THINK* my garage length is 19 feet 6 inches. I'll measure the length a little more carefully later today.

I can say that with the lift kit and a/c you better have a full 7 feet of vertical clearance. I have 1/4 inch to spare.

Douph92
03-12-2006, 10:33 AM
I checked my garage. I have 6 ft 9 inches vertical distance to the lip of the garage door.

PopBeavers
03-12-2006, 11:43 AM
2005 2720 with 2 inch lift kit and roof a/c, you will need 6 feet 10 inch vertical clearance. My driveway slopes a little steeper downhill than the modest slope of the garage floor.

With the rear receiver approximatly one inch from the back wall, and the TM slightly swung to one side, the front of the TM with the tongue swung away is 18 feet 1 inch from the back wall. Be careful measuring the distance to the door. I just noticed that the hinges on the roll up door stick back into the garage by almost an inch.

It appears that you have plenty of depth. The vertical height might be an issue.

Options that I see are:

1. Make sure the roll up door rolls up higher than the door header if it does not do so already. I had to convert from a rigid swing up door to a roll up door.

2. Don't get the a/c. I used mine on one trip last year out of 8 trips.

3. Don't get the lift kit. Without the lift kit I would be dragging the ground while backing into the driveway. The crown of the street rolls down to the gutter and then the driveway slopes up from there.

4. Let air out of the tires when going in/out of garage.

5. Make your own one inch lift kit. The factory sells an after market 2 inch lift kit that bolts in. When the lift kit is installed at the factory it is welded in. The lift kit is basically a length of 2 inch box tubing. I have not done this, but it appears to be possible.

I suggest you get the TM with a/c and no lift kit and then add a little lift if you need it. Maybe you don't need the lift kit at all. If you know you will need a full two inch lift kit then either omit the a/c or plan on letting air out of the tires.

Bill
03-12-2006, 12:38 PM
Douph92 -

My garage is 19'6" deep. My 2720SL is exactly 20'0" long, from the way way back edge of the bumper to the way way front edge of the hitch coupler. Clearly, the trailer would not fit without the swing tongue. With the swing tongue, no problem.

So, to answer your original question, a 2720 with swing tongue should fit your 19'4" garage very nicely.

FWIW, I am under the impression that the swing tongue doesn't quite subtract 2' off the length - more like 1'10" or 1'11".

By the way, my garage door opening is 82 1/4" high. My 2006 2720SL with 2" lift and air conditioner clears the top of the door frame by 3" - 4". The air conditioner is a low-profile model. On older TMs, the air conditioner was taller. I know this because my 2002 TM kissed the rubber weather strip, and it did NOT have a lift kit. I talked to the folks at the factory, and was told that they changed to the low profile A/C specifically so that a lift kit could be added without increasing the overall height. Those boys are paying attention!

If you have a new TM without a lift kit, it should be about 77" high, I think. So your 81" garage door opening should be OK. And as Wayne said, you can usually make the door open higher than its normal position. If you have a garage door opener, it has an adjustment to change how far it opens. If not, it may be as simple as opening the door normally, then pushing it open further and propping a 2X4 under it. Of course, the ultimate limit to the height is the header at the top of the opening.

Bill

Oh, by the way - Dick Coombs meant the last two digits of the model number is the closed length. Simple typo.

grampa
03-13-2006, 11:47 AM
We have a 2005 2720. Our garage, measured from the horizontal braces which run the full length of the door and project farthest into the garage, to the back wall is 19' 7". With the swing away tongue we have 1' 7" from the wall to the back window cover. The cover actually hangs over the bumper by about 2". We do not have the lift kit. Our TM has standard suspension, 14" tires, etc. We have the Low-profile A/C. The garage door is exactly 7' high. There is about 5-6" clearance between the A/C and the garage door. A 2720 with swing-around hitch will fit in your garage. We put the TM so there is about 1/2" clearance between the retracted hitch and the garage door horizontal braces.

Hope this helps. Grampa

grampa
03-13-2006, 04:41 PM
Hey Dough,

You didn't say if your garage was 1 car or 2. If one car check the door opening. Any TM with an awning is 8' wide. Without an awning it is 7"7' wide. Most 1 car garage doors are 8'.
Whether with or without an awning, a TM in a one car garage would be a tight fit through the door. There are several folks on this forum who keep their TM's in one car garages.
Grampa

Douph92
03-13-2006, 06:51 PM
Thanks Grandpa. We have a two car garage.

camp2canoe
03-14-2006, 11:44 AM
We have a very small garage further reduced in length by an indoor/outdoor dog kennel and our 2619 with swing away tongue barely fits. We also have a height problem. I have two height suggestions to try before bleeding your tires. First, almost all overhead garage doors still project below the overhead jamb but can be manually pushed up to gain a couple of inches or more. We keep a 2X4 cut to length to hold the door out of the way when pulling our TM in or out. Secondly, on our door there is a drilled bar that projects down for adustment purposes and we sawed off that portion of the bar below the hole in use which gave us more clearance and obviated the need to bleed the tires. Lastly, if you do bleed the tires remember to refill them once your TM is in the garage (and to bleed them again before pulling out!) as the weight of the TM may damage partially inflated tires.

PopBeavers
03-14-2006, 04:26 PM
Lastly, if you do bleed the tires remember to refill them once your TM is in the garage (and to bleed them again before pulling out!) as the weight of the TM may damage partially inflated tires.

An alternative might be to put the jacks down to support some of the weight. I would think this was ok if you will be pulling it out again soon. If it is long term storage maybe put the air back in. But if it was long term storage it might be tempting to set the jacks down anyway.

mntlblok
05-07-2006, 04:05 PM
I'm brand new here and brand new to RV'ing. I've narrowed my choices down to TT's that will fit in my garage, but are hard sided. TM 2619, while maybe heavier than what I want to deal with, is still in the running.

My garage sits at a right angle to the primary driveway direction, necessitating a sharp turn at entry. It could be that, with the other car out of the way, that I might be able to back the TM into the garage. Maybe not. :)

My question is, can a couple of relatively small humans do any significant moving of this smallest of TM's by hand if it can't be accurately positioned by the TV?

Note the advanced use of abbreviations by the newbie. Google has threatened to start charging me for all of my searches for RV info. :D However, I have *not* been able to come up with what such abbreviations as "DW" and "DH" mean - and am almost afraid to speculate. :)

Kevin
Savannah, GA

Soon to be Chalet XL 1930 or Chalet Arrowhead or Aliner LXE or Aliner Cabin A3 or Hi-Lo Towlite 1706T (probably not) or Trailmanor 2619 owner.

Freedom
05-07-2006, 04:12 PM
DH = Dear Husband, DW = Dear Wife (Can also be "Darling" and maybe not-so-dear depending on your mood!)

PopBeavers
05-07-2006, 04:57 PM
I can push my 2005 2720 around by myself as long as the ground is flat and hard (asphalt or concrete).

If it was not flat, it would run away and I could not stop it.

fcatwo
05-07-2006, 07:38 PM
I'm with Wayne on this. I'm not particularly big and not particularly young but I move our 2619 around all the time by hand. It's even easier if you block one tire at a time and swing the tongue side to side to move forward or back. You can even move it up a slight incline that way. As Wayne said however, don't let it get away from you if you are on an incline. Having a buddy standing by to move the blocks helps. I've moved boats weighing two or three times as much as the 2619 this way. I'm assuming you have the nose wheel that comes with the TM.

Leslie & Nick
05-07-2006, 07:38 PM
My question is, can a couple of relatively small humans do any significant moving of this smallest of TM's by hand if it can't be accurately positioned by the TV?

We have the exact same situation that you describe - a drive-under garage perpendicular to the driveway. I use a trailer dolly to help maneuver the trailer (also a TM 2619) into the garage. The dolly is much easier to steer with than the small single wheel on the jack.

Unfortunately there is a small incline in the concrete apron, in front of the garage, that makes getting over it a little more "challenging". Even with the dolly, it takes two adults to steer the trailer into the garage. The garage is standard 8 foot width, and I thus only have few inches of clearance on each side, so we have to be very careful. BTW, the TM has a fold away hitch, so once I get the trailer in the garage, and swing the hitch, I have quite a bit of lengthwise room. Actually the trailer would fit in the garage without the swing away option, but I wouldn't have as much room.

mntlblok
05-07-2006, 08:18 PM
I've moved boats weighing two or three times as much as the 2619 this way.

Yeah, I've moved boats that way, but really didn't have a feel for the relative weights. Sounds very doable.

*And*, as I read more and more of what all you helpful folks have posted here, I'm moving closer and closer to deciding that the TM is the way for us to go, even if it means a new TV. I think I'll wander over to another section and ask a few TV questions.

Thanks for all the swift and helpful replies.

Kevin
:new_newbi

Bill & Lisa
05-07-2006, 10:28 PM
Just out of curiosity, what other hard sided travel trailers have you found that will fit in your garage besides a TM? :confused: You also mention that the TM is heavier. I just thought of one, the little A frame hard side pop ups - chalet or something like that. If possible see if you can spend a night in each of your finalist at the dealers. You would be surprised how much your opinion of what is Okay can change after a few hours in one. :(
Bill

mntlblok
05-08-2006, 05:08 PM
Just out of curiosity, what other hard sided travel trailers have you found that will fit in your garage besides a TM? :confused: You also mention that the TM is heavier. I just thought of one, the little A frame hard side pop ups - chalet or something like that. If possible see if you can spend a night in each of your finalist at the dealers. You would be surprised how much your opinion of what is Okay can change after a few hours in one. :(
Bill

From my first post : Soon to be Chalet XL 1930 or Chalet Arrowhead or Aliner LXE or Aliner Cabin A3 or Hi-Lo Towlite 1706T (probably not) or Trailmanor 2619 owner.

The Aliner Cabin A is one piece and fairly ugly looking, but it clears the garage door by one inch. I *think* it can be made to sleep more than 2 in the Model 3. The other "A-shaped" contraptions, even the smallest ones made, would be plenty for me. The teardrops that would fit in the garage are too short.

I understand the space concerns of a "normal" person, but when I spent a couple of weeks volunteering over in Waveland, MS, right after Katrina hit, I took a couple of the seats out of my minivan and slept in there for the first few nights. If it hadn't been so dern hot, I woulda been fine. :)

DW is small enough, at 5ft. and 93lbs., that I can just pick her up and move her if she gets in the way, but I suppose she wouldn't mind having a bit more space in an RV. :) Actually, if I'm gonna get permission to buy this thing, it looks like I'm going to have to go with the 2619.

A motel room or an RV is mostly just a place to sleep for my style of traveling. We'll mostly be taking it to tennis tournaments, maybe some hiking in the mountains, and probably some scuba trips to the Keys. The tournament sites have showers, but I do like having the option of bathroom and shower on board if needed/desired. Most trips will be of the long weekend variety - which we are fortunate enough to be able to do *a lot*.

I also like the idea of the "handiness" of Walmart-type parking lots - never far from the tournament site. And, I plan to acquire one of those quiet generators - and would even were I to end up with one of the tinier foldups.

Hadn't considered the rainy day thing. Even the satellite dish would likely be a washout in that case. I do have a large stack of magazines that I've been meaning to get around to, and there's always all those digital photos that I will have taken that will need some work on the laptop.

I got serious today with pricing them and it looks like I can get a new 2006 2619 locally for 21K, with awning/kite, AC, swivel hitch, microwave, and even the microwave drawer thrown in (snatched from another model on the lot). Are the hanging cabinet and 3-drawer dresser options on the 2619? Am I likely to do significantly better on the price? There is definitely significant value in my mind in having a local dealer and not having to drive six or eight hours and back to buy it.

Thanks, again for the help and the suggestions.

Kevin

Doug W.
05-08-2006, 05:30 PM
You might want to look into used TMs. You might just get lucky. I was going to buy new. I was leaning towards a 2720SL, because the wife liked it. I was looking around on the Internet and found a used 3124KS for about $18,000. It had a couple minor problems, but I have them taken care of. When we looked, we saw the 2619, 2720, 2720SL, 2720SD and 3023. Now that we have the 3124KS, my wife is glad we did not buy the smaller one.

PopBeavers
05-08-2006, 07:38 PM
FWIW, we considered the other hard sided TT's. However, I have a son (23) and daughter (25) that go with us some of the time. Especially when son is racing mountain bikes. We need to sleep more than just the two of us.

The TM 2720 with swing away tongue was the largest trailer we could find that would fit in the garage.

I have no desire to convert a table into my bed late at night and then convert it back to a table in the morning. I want a permanent fixed bed, even if I have to use a step to get up into it.

If it weren't for the swing away tongue we would have gotten the 2619. We like the larger bed and extra storage that the 2720 provides.

mntlblok
05-08-2006, 08:50 PM
I'll drag DW over this week to see if there's anything about the 2619 that seems to come up short for her, but I suspect that she'll find it to be plenty roomy and will figure out ways to store stuff without the dresser and hanging cabinet. The minivan will then also have much more room for such things. She was cracking up watching the internet video of the setup, but, at least she was quick to pick up on the fact that it was "wimmen's work". :D

You've convinced me to scratch the Hi-Lo off my list. The smaller things would have a porta potty, I guess. I have no idea how satisfactory that would be. An empty drink vessel worked fine for me in the Walmart parking lot at a recent tennis tournament sojourn. :-) The lack of blinds or curtains in the minivan was aggravating, what with the street lights.

Checked out the little Fun Finder X TT's on that trip up in Myrtle Beach, which was what really got me looking seriously at this option. I was all set to go with a Roadtrek 170 if I could have found a reasonably priced used one. Could have parked it in the driveway without violating covenants.

I *love* the idea of not having to cart suitcases and all our other gear (photography equipment {including underwater housings and strobes}, laptop, coolers, tennis gear, scuba gear, etc.) into motel rooms. I love the idea of being able to stop just about any time you want without looking for a motel with a vacancy (and a rate that doesn't tick you off).

I don't have a good feel for how quiet the "quiet" generators are, but my impression from these fora is that you hardly hear them from even just ten feet away. Am I way off here??

BTW, may one generally sleep in Interstate Highway rest areas with a quiet generator going? The name Onan comes to mind, but I believe I also remember a name something like "Generic" that was a tad less expensive. Any recommendations? But, if the things can be used without aggravating others, they would be well worth their costs to me.

As long as I'm wandering off subject, I see that they come in gasoline and LP versions (as well as diesel). Is LP the same thing as propane? Any reasons not to go with LP rather than the potentially smelly gasoline versions? I also don't have a feel for how long fuel lasts in either type. How small a version could keep a 2619 cool all night in summer heat?

And, while I would only plan to be "sleeping", as opposed to "camping" at Walmart, my impression, again from forum reading, is that Walmart encourages RV's, and I wonder if they would really care whether you had your lawn chairs and BBQ out.

I believe you can have little window-style air conditioners in at least "some" of the little "A-shaped" contraptions. My sense was that they could be run off of propane if there were no "hook-ups". Even just a little bit of cooling would make a *lot* of difference. Anyway, you guys have convinced me that I can handle a 2619, so you can stop worrying about my poor DW. :D

Thanks to all for all the fine advice.

Kevin
Savannah
:new_newbi



I don't think there's room in a 2619 for a 3 drawer dresser, but the other options seem OK. Some don't care for the hanging cabinet (cupboard), but we wouldn't be wilthout it. With the Hi-Lo 1706, you don't get a permanent bed, in the 2619 you get 2. The 1706 wieghs just about the same as the 2619. While the TM has a full bath with solid wood walls, the top half of the HI-Lo walls are fabric. Does the Chalet have a bathroom? That's a prime consideration for the ladies. Several considerations for a TT over a motel are: You have your own bed, today, thats comforting to know who slept there last night. RV parks are plentiful and cheaper than motels. You can set up a TT just about as quick as you can unload the vehicle at a motel. I think Wal-Mart would frown on a generator running, but again, some may allow it, just don't set out your lawn chairs and BBQ.
Speaking of sleeping in the minivan when it was so hot, Can you get an a/c in the Chalet????
All of these questions need to be addressed before you spend a lot of money on anything.
Good luck with your search.

mntlblok
05-08-2006, 10:55 PM
I don't have a good feel for how quiet the "quiet" generators are, but my impression from these fora is that you hardly hear them from even just ten feet away. Am I way off here?

http://www.klenger.net/arctic-fox/generator-noise/index.html

Some info I found on generator noise and AC options.

Kevin

Bill & Lisa
05-09-2006, 02:19 PM
The hanging cabinet is definately an option as the sink area is pretty much the same on all the models. There are some differenceces due to where the inside seam between the walls falls but all models can be fitted with the hanging cabinet. The 3 drawer dresser is a nightstand type standalone. Problem withthe 2619 is where do you store it while traveling....well you probably can stow it between the couches or in front of the refridge....the real problem is where do you put it when you are set up! there does not appear to be a convient place to put it where it will not block something esle.

Bill

mntlblok
05-10-2006, 02:55 PM
You might want to look into used TMs. You might just get lucky. I was going to buy new. I was leaning towards a 2720SL, because the wife liked it. I was looking around on the Internet and found a used 3124KS for about $18,000. It had a couple minor problems, but I have them taken care of. When we looked, we saw the 2619, 2720, 2720SL, 2720SD and 3023. Now that we have the 3124KS, my wife is glad we did not buy the smaller one.

I'm definitely exploring the used market, but it doesn't seem all that robust.

I keep reading that, at least the 2619 - and maybe the 2720 - can be pulled by minivans. My research on minivans (which I prefer to drive as my primary vehicle) suggests that most of them have a tow rating of 3500, with a few up at 3800 - with the Dodge Grand Caravan falling in the latter category. I also like the "Stow and Go" fold down seating and the relatively small price tag on the Dodge. What do you guys think about towing various loaded down TM's with this Dodge?

Also, on the subject of towing, I'm looking at the WDH models discussed by RockyMtnRay, and it has me wondering about whether I'm handy enough to hook one of those things up. I assume that they would have to be installed for each trip out of the garage if one needs the space gained by the "swing hitch". Is that right? Is it something that isn't left attached to either the TV or the TT when not traveling? TIA

Kevin

mntlblok
05-10-2006, 08:12 PM
Actually, it's simpler to do than to describe here.
[/url]

Whew! That's great news! I was afraid I was going to have to sign up for some kind of graduate level course after reading the description. ;)

And, now that I think about it, there's probably not any real reason to stick with a minivan any longer, what with the kids getting all grown up. Guess it's time to start exploring other TV options. BTW, am I the only one who is concerned that the abbreviation "TV" has other connotations? :D

Thanks. It actually does help, a lot.

Kevin

mntlblok
05-11-2006, 02:38 PM
http://www.equalizerhitch.com/productinfo/video.php#movie

mntlblok
05-11-2006, 03:09 PM
Looks like a "receiver" is separate from a WDH, and apparently can be specific to the TV? And then there's the ball. Where does that fit in with buying the connections? Apparently that has to be ordered separately from the WDH. Looks like I'm not nearly ready to try to purchase a TM.

Also, do TM's typically have electric brakes? If so, it looks like I have to come up with a way to "attach" them to my minivan.

And, speaking of wiring, does some special wiring need to be done to my TV before hooking up a trailer?

Am I just too helpless and hopeless to buy a travel trailer??:(

Kevin
:new_newbi

mntlblok
05-11-2006, 08:54 PM
You're doing just fine, keep asking and learning...
ps... I bought my used TM from an RV dealer and they sold me the WD hitch, brake controller, and installed it. Everything works just fine...

Heck, I almost took off this weekend to go buy a TM four hours away, and woulda gotten there with no way to bring it home.

But, it now looks like this trailer hitch and WDH thing and "towing packages" and electric breaks is going to make me have to re-think sticking with my old minivan. Probably time to get a new vehicle.

But, read about the Ford Freestar today and it's low center of gravity, and, especially with the larger engine, that the 3500 tow rating that most all minivans have is probably *way* off the mark. It said that the first minivan listed 3500 and all the rest have just copied it - despite some having significantly larger engines and significantly different transmissions and gear ratios.

Kevin

mntlblok
05-11-2006, 09:12 PM
But, read about the Ford Freestar today

http://www.rvlifemag.com/file343/hitchhints343.html

Kevin
:new_newbi

mntlblok
05-11-2006, 11:13 PM
I see in the archives that the Kia Sedona might be sufficient for a couple towing a 2619 on flat ground?

Kevin
:new_newbi

MidwestDave
05-12-2006, 01:48 PM
We just took delivery of a new 2720. The tv is a 3.8L -6cyl. We had no problem pulling on moderate hills. We experienced the vehicle "working" to keep a 60 mph steady pace in high winds. We averaged about 14 mpg.
The stated factory weight on the title is #3090. It has air,awning,swing away hitch,hanging cabinet,and tv shelf as well as micro wave box with drawer. Those items must make up the difference of the publisher weight of #2742 lbs. We took it for our first trip to Kettle Moraine State park at the Ottawa Lake camping area around Eagle Wisconsin. Only had electric hook up and forgot to fill up water tank,sooo we hauled water. We had a great time!
I had not towed a large trailer before and towing it over 300 miles was an education. Backing it up is another story, but I'm working on it!
Had several people come over to check out our TM at the park.
I will say the TV is adequate with the factory tow package. Don't know if I would want anything smaller in horse power.
That's my 2 cents!

Midwest Dave:cool:
On the shores of the mighty Mississippi river:)

mntlblok
05-21-2006, 01:28 PM
OK. You guys have scared me out of trying to tow a Trailmanor with a minivan. I've gone back to taking a look at the various A-frames. Certainly no towing problems there. But, there *is* a huge difference in inside space.

You've also convinced me that I don't want to deal with popups when it rains. Next question. What do you know about the Palomino Mustang XL? It seems to be *mostly* hard-sided, but the "bed end" extensions still look to be soft.

I'm wondering if it has some of the same advantages as the Trailmanor as far as "stopping for lunch". I don't know anything about how the "bed ends" work on popups, but it looks like you could maybe stop for lunch and raise the sides without having to deal with the soft ends. And, it looks like maybe it might not be a problem setting up in the rain. Taking down may be a different story.

And, I wonder about this sort of possible addition from another forum:

>>>>>
I just read this on RV Business and wanted to pass it on. Very interesting...

Dutchmen Manufacturing Co. Inc.'s Aerolite Division has teamed up with top-of-the-line tent and outdoor mattress manufacturer Cascade Designs Inc., Seattle, Wash., to create a Therm-a-Rest self-erecting, all-weather tent extension. The product is available as a $1,200 option on Aerolite Cub and Kodiak hybrid trailers. The Therm-a-Rest tent extension debuted this week at the 43rd Annual National RV Trade Show at the Kentucky Exposition Center in Louisville, Ky. Each tent extension, made from Super-Tech polyester fabric with heat-sealed seams, features a self-inflating insulated outdoor mattress with a pillow top cover. "Once you open the door, it automatically pops open and sets up by itself," said marketing manger Joe Hosinski. "It is highly weatherproof," he added. "It's a full, outdoor extreme-weather tent."
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/16633217.cfm
>>>>>>

What little I can find in the various forums about the Mustang XL suggests that the price might be quite reasonable, but I can't find any actual quotes. Looks like the nearest dealer is 4 hours away.

It looks like it weighs enough less than a Trailmanor to make it predictably towable with a minivan with a WDH. What think you guys?

Kevin
Savannah

mntlblok
05-21-2006, 04:19 PM
If the dealer is 4 hrs away, give them a call, and in 10 minutes, you can determine if you want to pursue it further.

Thanks, Tex. Good idea.

Kevin