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terryjones1
06-18-2005, 05:16 PM
I have just ordered a new 2720 with swing-around tongue.

Does anyone know if an electric tongue jack will interfer with the swing-around tongue's ability to "swing around"?

Anyone with experience in this area?

RockyMtnRay
06-18-2005, 06:37 PM
I have just ordered a new 2720 with swing-around tongue.

Does anyone know if an electric tongue jack will interfer with the swing-around tongue's ability to "swing around"?

Anyone with experience in this area?
In my experience, there are two issues with using an electric tongue jack on a swing tongue TM.

First, most electric jacks (certainly this Barker model I bought from Camping World (http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=20051)) have a footpad instead of a dolly wheel on the bottom. Therefore, you are not going to "swing around" the tongue if the trailer's weight is on the tongue. Since I consider swinging the tongue with the trailer's weight on it to be inadvisable anyway (although the TM engineers allegedly say this is safe); I simply lower the front leveling jacks (equally) enough to take the trailer's weight off the tongue, then retract the jack enough to get the footpad off the ground, then swing the tongue.

The second issue is ensuring a good ground for the jack. The jack I bought uses the trailer tongue/frame as a ground...there is only one wire (the 12V power wire) going to the jack head. That means the return current from the jack (which can be very high...as much as 25 amps) has to travel through the swing tongue's hinge points. And depending on circumstances, those hinge points could present substantial resistance to current flow...and that means reduced jack power, heating of the hinges, and possibly even arcing/welding of the hinges. To my scientific/engineering mind, dependence on the hinges for solid electrical ground continuity was not a good idea at all. So I rigged up a flexible ground wire (12 gauge) between the part of the tongue that pivots and the part that doesn't...and made this wire long enough that it easily flexes when the tongue is swung around to the side.

So far so good...the jack has worked flawlessly now for 2 towing seasons. And there's no way that I'd ever go back to using a manual jack...the electric is much faster, creates far less perspiration when hooking up/unhooking on a hot day, and makes it very easy to attach my WDH's spring bars (I use the jack to lift the trailer tongue several inches after attaching it to the truck and latching the hitch ball).

bill s
06-18-2005, 07:17 PM
my wheel addition to the electric tongue jack plate seems to work pretty
well...see my entry/modification under electric tongue jack (wheel mod)
..swing around works fine...

terryjones1
06-18-2005, 08:40 PM
Thanks Bill S & Rocky Mtn Ray,

My primary concern is insuring that I can park the trailer in the garage. I want the trailer to be as short as possible.

I need every bit of the 2 feet or so that the swing-around tongue gives you.

Will I still be able to utilize all of the length shortning that the swing-around tongue gives you if I have a power tongue jack installed?

YWORRYDOG
06-19-2005, 05:05 AM
It will not change the way it swings in anyway other then the lack of a wheel

RockyMtnRay
06-19-2005, 06:20 AM
Thanks Bill S & Rocky Mtn Ray,

My primary concern is insuring that I can park the trailer in the garage. I want the trailer to be as short as possible.

I need every bit of the 2 feet or so that the swing-around tongue gives you.

Will I still be able to utilize all of the length shortning that the swing-around tongue gives you if I have a power tongue jack installed?

Short answer is "Yes".

The long answer is as YWORRYDOG states above, the electric jack has absolutely no effect on the length shortening aspect of the swing tongue...my garage is 19.5 feet long and the swing tongue allows me to park my 2720SL in the garage with 4 inches clearance in the back and about 12 inches clearance in in the front. It does exactly what the factory says it does...shortens the trailer's parked length by roughly 2 feet.

The "swinging" issues with an electric jack on the swing tongue are instead those mentioned above...electric jacks are shipped with footpads instead of dolly wheels (though a dolly wheel can be fitted by an owner as bill s did)...and there can be grounding problems that you (or an installer) must address with a separate grounding wire between the two parts of the tongue.

There is one other issue with an electric jack on TMs with front slides (2720SL and 272SD, 3124KS, and 3326)...namely the jack head/motor in its default position may prevent the slide from being fully extended. As shipped, the jack head on my Barker HiPower jack was positioned behind the center of the jack column when the jack was installed. In order to fully extend the front slide on my 2720SL, I had to rotate the jack head 90 degrees around the column (it's designed to do this on Barker models).

Another consideration with electric jacks...the hole in the tongue on TMs is designed for 2 inch diameter jacks. Many...but not all...of the heavy duty electric jacks have 2.5 inch jack columns. Although the hole can be enlarged to 2.5 inches, it's much easier to simply buy a jack with a 2 inch diameter column in the first place. And I definitely recommend getting a heavy duty (2500 lb or greater) electric jack. Although the light duty (typically 1500 lb) models will lift the tongue by itself, the heavier duty models can be used to lift the tongue a few inches with tow vehicle attached which greatly aids attachment of the WDH spring bars.

terryjones1
06-19-2005, 11:48 AM
Thanks everyone.

I will try to get an electric tongue jack factory installed.

skrusins
11-04-2006, 02:29 PM
I spoke to Bill about a swivel wheel on his jack, and I was wondering if any-
one else has tried. His idea sounds great! and hope to get some pictures at
his convenence. Very nice and helpful person to talk to.
I'm looking for more info, Has anyone have any comments on Ultra Fab Jacks?
Has any one have or had trouble with the electric jack? Thanks for any help

rtcassel
11-04-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm looking for more info, Has anyone have any comments on Ultra Fab Jacks?

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm/Outdoor-and-RV-Accessories/26643/skunum=26643:src=SRQB
I installed the above jack. The wheel from the manual Atwood (I think) jack that came with the TM has a protrusion inside the collar that holds the wheel onto the manual jack's tube. This protusion did not allow the wheel to be used on the UltraFab. I filed it down so that it would fit in the groove on the tube of the UltraFab jack. The fit is loose enough so that the wheel falls off when the jack is raised. I marked the tube so that I can tell when the wheel is completely on. I hold it in that position as I lower the jack until the wheel touches the ground. This works well for me.

skrusins
11-05-2006, 11:41 AM
Thanks Tim this info helps me alot, Stan

05-28-2010, 07:21 PM
I found out the hard way today that the swing out tongue has almost no grounding when no weight is on it. My tongue jack would not work with no pressure on the tongue.

Wavery
05-28-2010, 07:38 PM
I found out the hard way today that the swing out tongue has almost no grounding when no weight is on it. My tongue jack would not work with no pressure on the tongue.
You can purchase a length of braided grounding cable from most parts stores or Radio Shack (it doesn't have to be very thick). They come with an eye on each end. Get yourself a couple of 1/4-20 self tapping screws. Drill a 3/16" hole on the bottom of each frame section, close to the hinge. Install the braided ground cable by screwing the self-tapping screws into the drilled holes and you will have a perfect ground.

http://http.cdnlayer.com/ec1images/225/products/2/2147007219_081908_mo.jpg

ShrimpBurrito
05-28-2010, 08:06 PM
What is the advantage to using a grounding braid vs. a wire? They are similarly priced, and the braid is not protected at all from corrosion.

Dave

Wavery
05-28-2010, 08:30 PM
What is the advantage to using a grounding braid vs. a wire? They are similarly priced, and the braid is not protected at all from corrosion.

Dave
The braided cable is far more flexible. It's not effected by movement or vibration. It's specifically designed as a ground wire where there is movement and flexing, like in doors. Usually made of copper so no need for insulation. They're even commonly used in marine applications. Corrosion is not usually an issue.

Jim&Joan
05-28-2010, 09:14 PM
What is the advantage to using a grounding braid vs. a wire? They are similarly priced, and the braid is not protected at all from corrosion.

Dave


Most importantly, the braid is usually a much larger cross sectional area which provides a much lower resistance, so therefore a much better ground (so very little to no voltage drop across the braid.)

To get a comparable cross section with wire, you would use such a large guage that it would be stiffer and not hold up to the flex needed in this application.

Normally corrosion is an issue at connection points (lugs, screw heads, etc) not along the conductor.

ShrimpBurrito
05-28-2010, 09:58 PM
How can the cross-sectional area be more? If I have 1000 tiny strands of copper and stack them, the area should be the same whether I stack them in a circle or in a rectangle, right?

Wavery
05-28-2010, 10:21 PM
How can the cross-sectional area be more? If I have 1000 tiny strands of copper and stack them, the area should be the same whether I stack them in a circle or in a rectangle, right?

Dave........

Have a little trust.....they're better......yer just being a PITA.....:p
http://www.gacopper.com/Braid-Strap-Wire-Comparison.html

Wayne

lnussbau
06-03-2010, 05:21 AM
How can the cross-sectional area be more? If I have 1000 tiny strands of copper and stack them, the area should be the same whether I stack them in a circle or in a rectangle, right?

The braid truly is a much better choice for grounding. Anyone knowledgeable in electronics will choose the braid. Try the wire if you like, but it'll give you fits after a while.

Jim&Joan
06-03-2010, 06:18 AM
How can the cross-sectional area be more? If I have 1000 tiny strands of copper and stack them, the area should be the same whether I stack them in a circle or in a rectangle, right?

If you note, I said 'usually'. There is no doubt that you could pick a braid with lower cross sectional area than a 2 ga. wire. Within parameters of practicality, braid is usually the low dc resistance winner.

ThePair
06-03-2010, 08:05 AM
I have a 2009.5 2720SL with swing hitch and power jack from the factory. Mine also came with a wheel, not a footpad (for which I am eternally grateful!)

There is no issue with the swing-away. I lift the front on the corner jacks, retract the wheel so it's off the ground, swing away, and then lower the wheel to roll the TM the last few feet into position in the garage. It's an extremely tight fit for me (just a few inches all around) so the swing is a necessity. I do not have any issues with the grounding for the jack to operate, even when fully "swung" around, and I didn't add any kind of extra grounding wire. It just works, until I disconnect the whole front piece for storage.

Additionally, for the factory power jack, there is no issue with sliding out the slide all the way. There's extra room behind the jack, in fact, when the room is slid all the way out. (The same cannot be said for raising the hatch on the minivan while hitched, but that's a whole 'nother story.)

All in all, I'm very pleased with the function of the factory installed power jack with the swing-away tongue. Without both, I don't think I would be able to store the TM in my garage as I do.

Bill
06-06-2010, 05:05 PM
I lift the front on the corner jacks, retract the wheel so it's off the ground, swing away, and then lower the wheel to roll the TM the last few feet into position in the garage.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I seem to hear you say that you put the full tongue weight of the TM on the wheel while the swing tongue is swung to the side. This is not a good idea, since the torsional rigidity of the A-frame and swing mechanism is compromised when you pull out the big pin, and apply a torque from the side. We had a big discussion of this a few years ago, in the context of broken frame welds in the swing tongue area. I found it in this thread

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3728

as well as an earlier thread which is referenced therein.

Bill

ThePair
06-06-2010, 09:18 PM
You are not misunderstanding. That is exactly what I do, and it's something that I had discussed with both the dealer and someone at the factory prior to purchasing the TM. I do not swing with any weight on the front, but once swung to the side, I do roll the TM in the last 18" or so, then remove all weight.

I will call the factory this week to reconfirm. I have a feeling that they redesigned things with the swing tongue since that thread, but I will reconfirm and post here. The last thing I want to be doing is something that could potentially damage the tongue!

ThePair
06-07-2010, 02:30 PM
Ok, just got off the phone with Mike from TM. He said that they have made some small modifications to the swing hitch over the last few years, but the purpose of those was to prevent the types of hitch damage seen in the aforementioned thread. As a result, he said that, as long as the TM was closed, and the ground was smooth without risk of a sudden drop or other sudden stress, then it should be absolutely fine to do what I'm doing. Seeing as I'm inside my garage (perfectly smooth floor) with the closed TM, it seems like I'm safe.

Obviously, this is something that can only be done in limited and set circumstances, but my set up seems to be one that allows for this.