TV Battery / TM Battery contention

[hingarfi]

I am potential owner of a TrailManor TT and am hoping someone can answer the following question:
What are the consequences of plugging shore power (110VAC) into the TM while the TM is still plugged into the TV AND the engine of TV is still running.? I guess I really want to know if there is a 110VAC activated solenoid switch which disconnects the TV 12VDC from the TM to prevent contention between the TV 12V and the TM 12V.
This TM forum is really great. I have spent many hours reading the good and the bad. TM seems to be a great TT. I will appreciate your thoughts and comments.
Bert

[mjlaupp]

There is no isolation device in the TrailManor. Any such device, if it exists, would be located in the tow vehicle. There is a 20/30 amp fuse at the battery for protection.
MJL

[YWORRYDOG]

On our last trip, we left the TM hooked to the TV for one night on the way home. I was using the shore power that night. When it came time to leave in the morning, I found that I had forgot to unplug from the TV! Nothing adverse seems to have hapened.

[Caver]

You are asking a good question but the short answer is that it's not a problem. The highest voltage device (car alternator or converter) will determine the battery voltage and supply the bulk of the charging current. There are no relays or solenoids in the TM.

Those of us with solar panels have yet another source of 12 volts wired in parallel with the battery.

Good luck with your choice. Ray

[Freedom]

We own a 2619 and tow it with a GMC Jimmy. We have set up without disconnecting the TV and have plugged in to shore power with no ill effects. The shore power goes through the converter and reaches the battery as 12 volts which is in parallel so there isn't a problem. You should have an isolator in the charge circuit coming from your TV so you don't draw power from your TV battery if you're dry camping without shore power. If you don't have an isolator, I still don't think there would be any problem unless your converter is putting out way too much - it might even charge your TV battery! ;)

[hingarfi]

Thanks Guys:
I am amazed at the enthusiasm and knowledge of the group. I hope I can convince my wife to get a TM. (2720, 15" axle, 2" lift, 40 gal water 2*T-105). As a result of this discussion, I believe I can survive dry camping:
(a) Run with ref pre-cooled and off. Arrive fully charged (BEST solution)
(b) Keep resistance low in 12V circuit. Run ref 12V. Arrive mostly charged.
(c) Get an ultra-quiet 1KW generator to recharge the TM battery. (They tell me they are installing a 60A converter these days so maybe I can recharge the T-105's in 3-4 hours)

I certainly enjoyed this thread and many of your previous discussions. I'll let you know if the 2720 happens.

[RockyMtnRay]

Thanks Guys:
I am amazed at the enthusiasm and knowledge of the group. I hope I can convince my wife to get a TM. (2720, 15" axle, 2" lift, 40 gal water 2*T-105). As a result of this discussion, I believe I can survive dry camping:
(a) Run with ref pre-cooled and off. Arrive fully charged (BEST solution)
(b) Keep resistance low in 12V circuit. Run ref 12V. Arrive mostly charged.
(c) Get an ultra-quiet 1KW generator to recharge the TM battery. (They tell me they are installing a 60A converter these days so maybe I can recharge the T-105's in 3-4 hours)

If your camping will be largely in areas that get good sunshine (little cloudiness, little shade....like West Texas), then solar panels are a far better solution for battery charging than a 1KW generator. The safe charging current for deep cycle batteries (like the T105s) is 20% (or less) of their rated capacity...which means that the charging current for a pair of T105s should not exceed about 45 amps. And a 10% of capacity current (roughly 20 amps) is even better. A typical 150 to 180 watt solar array puts out between 9 and 12 amps (I get 11 amps out my 170 watt array)...and it will produce that level of current for around 10 hours a day during the summer.

Another huge advantage of having 170 to 180 watts of solar panels is they will just about (perhaps fully) supply the needs of the refer running on DC when you are stopped and the TV is not providing any charging current. I no longer have any worries about a multiple hour mid-day enroute stop...at least on a sunny day (which is typical in Colorado)...at most I'll only have a couple of amp-hours of battery discharge.

The upfront cost of my 170 watt array was around $1000...about the cost of a 2Kw generator...but there is almost zero continuing cost and they produce power all day long without having to be attended to. It's a great feeling to be able to go off for a day of hiking/biking/kayaking/mountain climbing and know that my TM's batteries will be fully charged by the time I get back. :D

[Bill]

Ray -

I concur that solar power is a great way to go if you camp in appropriately sunny places. I have 160 watts of panels, and have used them whenever I can. Just as a matter of general interest to forum members, the cost of solar panels is going UP rather steeply, due to greatly increased demand in Europe. At this point, European nations are taking large-scale solar and wind much more seriously than we are, and a favorable dollar-to-Euro ratio is sucking most of the panel production capacity there. Eventually, capacity will increase and prices will come down, but who knows when.

I don't want this to sound like a shameless plug (which I suppose it is), but when I was researching it, I found that very reasonable prices at Northern Arizona Wind and Sun (http://www.solar-electric.com), a small place in Flagstaff.

In recent months, as NAWS watched their market grow and their small store get more and more cramped, they ordered up a new building. The contractor is coming in late and NAWS had previously ordered lot of panels, so things are stacked on top of each other. To ease the situation, they have lowered prices on some stock that is temporarily in excess, and prices are about where they were three years ago when I bought my panels. As soon as their new building is finished, of course, prices will return to market-drive levels. If you are thinking about getting into solar, now might be a good time. http://store.solar-electric.com/

DISCLAIMER: I have no connection to NAWS other than as a satisfied customer - I bought my panels and charge controller there, spent a couple hours talking to the owner, and got some good technical advice. (Their store really is small. I was sitting on a pile of batteries as I talked to him!) Their website also has a lot of good technical content. I also participate in a discussion board much like this one, sponsored by NAWS. One of the things I like most about the discussion board is that the owner of NAWS participates on a regular basis, and he doesn't put up with any b.s. He dislikes, and often posts corrections to, what he calls the "buy a panel, save the world" crowd. He is a down-to-earth reality-driven guy who believes in the practical and appropriate use of solar power, sees the long-term benefits, and wants to be part of it. I respect that.

It is easy to pay way too much for solar stuff - Camping World comes to mind - but there are some more reasonable prices out there. However, if anyone objects to this post as too commerical, let me know and I will remove it instantly.

Bill

[hingarfi]

Guys:

I finally came up with the perfect solution for keeping the TM battery fully charged after running all day with the ref on 12V. I remembered when I was a kid the bicycles had little generators with a wheel that ran against the side of one of the tires. I am going to attach a 4" grind stone which I own to a used 12V car alternator. This will be mounted under my TM and be rotated by the TM wheel. Thereby keeping the TM battery fully charged. What do you think?

Bert (1-APR-2005)

[Joe]

Guys:

I finally came up with the perfect solution for keeping the TM battery fully charged after running all day with the ref on 12V. I remembered when I was a kid the bicycles had little generators with a wheel that ran against the side of one of the tires. I am going to attach a 4" grind stone which I own to a used 12V car alternator. This will be mounted under my TM and be rotated by the TM wheel. Thereby keeping the TM battery fully charged. What do you think?

Bert (1-APR-2005)
Bert;
I thought you were serious until I saw the (1-APR-2005) by your name.
Joe

[hingarfi]

Joe:

My personal favorite joke is #9 at this site :-)
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/top100.html

[YWORRYDOG]

I like your idea, it is a lot better then my 2 chipmonk powered wheel!!