New 2005 2720 ordered [Archive] - TrailManor Owner's Forum

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PopBeavers

02-25-2005, 01:19 AM

Just wanted to say thanks for having these forums here. I discovered them after seeing TM's at the Sacramento RV show on 2/20/2005. I don't know how much of the forums I read, but it was a lot. Probably logged 15-20 hours reading forums this week. I found answers to numerous questions.

I thought I would share what we bought and why. The next new comer might find it helpful. I know I did.

TV:
2003 Chevy Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 4wd LT 6.0 automatic, but I don't know the rear end ratio.

TM:
2005 2720. Wife wants the blue color scheme. Dinuba RV only stocks the beige. So an order is in the works.

I bought the TV, used, two weeks ago. My son races Mountain Bikes. I wanted a vehicle that could carry at least four adults with 4-8 Mountain bikes to races in CA, ID, UT, CO, NM, etc. Was looking at used Suburbans. Never considered a crew cab because I only had seen really big ones that would never fit in my garage. Discovered the 1500HD Crew Cab while looking at Suburbans. Basically a half ton sized truck on a three quarter ton chassis. Bought it with 58k miles on it. Really nice truck. Gas mileage not so great at 13.5 mpg on cruise control at 5 over the limit, no load.

Had an opportunity to tow a 1986 Chevy S10 4wd home on a U-Haul auto transport trailer for 200 miles. Hardly knew it was behind me. Should have no trouble with the 2720, as I expect it will actually weigh less. Gas mileage was 12.5 mpg at 55-60. Almost as good as with no load. Very interesting. In 120 miles using cruise control it only downshifted three times between Atascadero and Salinas. I was impressed.

Started looking at camping trailers a few weeks ago. Wife and I have been thinking about them for years. Rule number one: it must fit in the garage 7 foot door with 19.5 feet of depth. I refuse to pay rent for a parking space.

I knew about tent trailers and recently discovered there are three brands of "off-road" tent trailers, Jayco, StarCraft and Fleetwood. Only dealer around San Jose was Fleetwood. Wife and I both liked the Fleetwood Mojave. Wish I had an off-road tent trailer back when I would go deer hunting with my dad. But the tent trailer just doesn't have enough cabinet space inside. Wrong product for us at this time. If I ever start deer hunting with my brothers again it would be different.

Discovered the Hi-Lo and TrailManor on internet. Looked interesting. Went to the RV and Sport Show in Sacramento. All five were at the show (Jayco, Fleetwood, StarCraft, Hi-Lo and TrailManor), along with the smaller Chalet and ALiner.

The 2720 is the largest trailer of any kind that will fit in my garage. There are some comparably sized tent trailers, but they aren't off-road. If I were to buy a tent trailer to tow behind my 4wd truck, I would be VERY tempted to take it off the beaten path. Besides, the fridge and stove are larger in the TM AND there is a lot more cabinet space inside. Even has a bathroom. Wife and daughter will like that. Son and I don't care.

We have used my in-laws motor home several times at mountain bike races in the past several years. I believe that the 2720 has more usable space than a 30 foot motor home. The TM has no drivers seats to waste living space.

Ordering the roof top a/c. Not sure I will use it very often as we don't expect to be in parks very often. But I was convinced that it would help the resale value. But if I keep it 20 years, why do I care about resale value? Today I researched generators. Looks like Honda dual 2000's is the way to go, but I don't like the price.

Daughter and son are now 24 and 21. Must have done something right over the years. They actually like hanging out with us some of the time. We all go to watch our son race as much as we can. The National Series races are Thurdays through Sundays. It is always nicer to be able to stay "onsite", thus the TM. I'm tired of driving back and forth to motels.

Son is 6 foot 4. Sleeping on the ground or on a camping cot wasn't restful enough. Impacted his win capability. I think he will fit solo in the double bed and store his "body armor" with him. Daughter can use the dinette the few times she will be with us. She is closer to 5 foot 6. Wife and I get the queen. The queen was the only reason we picked the 2720 over the 2619. If the weather gets really nasty I won't be surprised to see a few of our son's friends show up looking to sleep on the dry floor.

Maybe some day we'll get to take some grand children camping, but that isn't likely any time soon. Can't take them if you don't have any.

Besides going to bike races we hope to just get out a little more often, even if it is just to some of the local state and county parks. With the TM in the garage instead of across town that will be easy to do.

This got a little long winded. If you are still reading this then you must be retired! I wish I was.

Frenchy

02-25-2005, 05:45 AM

You might consider the Yamaha EF2800i generator. It is louder than the Hondas but it may be to your liking.

RockyMtnRay

02-25-2005, 05:59 AM

This got a little long winded. If you are still reading this then you must be retired! I wish I was.

Long but very well written. I've retired once and am now 12 years into a very busy 2nd career so not sure where that puts me. But I will take the time to read good stuff...all the way to the end. :)

Sounds like you're basically just about all ready to go...if you haven't already done so, be sure to buy a very good quality brake controller like a Tekonsha Prodidgy.

Given the length...and weight of your truck (especially with a cab full of people and a bed full of bikes/bike stuff), you're one of the very few people here who probably doesn't need to use a weight distributing hitch...but you'd find the truck will handle better (and have a greater margin of safety on the front brakes and steering) if you did. Sway control is definitely not needed unless you're planning on hanging any of those bikes off the back of the trailer.

Be sure to periodically share some stories/photos of your son's races. Though certainly no racer, I do enough mountain biking on "interesting" ;) trails here in Colorado to appreciate the incredibly high levels of athletic ability that MB racing demands. Have to admit I got a knowing chuckle out of your mention of his "body armor"...a whole lot of the stuff that accompanies me on my expeditions is best described as "protective gear". :)

PopBeavers

02-25-2005, 08:12 AM

I appreciate the suggestion of the Prodigy. I had already pretty much concluded that from reading the forums here. I will need to get some kind of brak controller. I stopped by my local Camping World this week to look around. Brake controllers aren't all that expensive. Might as well get a good one. Camping World recommended the Prodigy. So did most of the posts on the TM Owners forums.

I think the Jury is still out on the WD hitch for my configuration. I'm still undecided. My hope is that I have enough weight capacity for a few more toys. I'd like to get a quad for my wife that would fit in the back of the truck and a street legal dirt bike for somewhere else, maybe the front bumper. My son is recommending I get a Yamaha 250 four stroke. If I have to, I'm sure he'll volunteer to drive his(my) truck along with the toys in it.

His truck died a few weeks ago. That was the 86 S10 that I towed home. He now has my 97 Dakota extended cab.

Did I mention the 20,000 hammer? I went down to San Luis Obispo to try to fix his truck. Water pump failure. Couldn't get the darn thing off. He didn't have all the right tools. Tried rubber mallet, and then tried prying with a shovel and baseball bat. I thought there was a hidden bolt somewhere. I finally gave up and came home.

Bought the Silverado.

Next trip down, bought a ball peen hammer. Two taps and the water pump fell off. Total cost of the water pump repair was:

water pump
gasket seal
ball peen hammer
2002 Chevy Silverado 1500HD LT 4wd crew cab long bed

Nice hammer though.

We were in Colorado last year. Race was near Aspen. I think the resort name is Snowmass. On the right a mile or two before the airport.

Son has a good friend in Boulder and spent a few days with him without us. We went to Yellowstone on the way from Idaho (Schweitzer Mountain) to Aspen. If you like mountain bikeing check out http://www.leelikesbikes.com Lee used to be here in San Jose, but moved a couple of years ago to Boulder. He writes well and posts some cool pictures.

I bought my son a website for Christmas a year ago http://www.beaverbiker.com With a last name of Beavers, what else would you name it?

He wants me to redo his website so he asked me to put up an "Under Construction" page. But the photo gallery is still there if you know where to look http://beaverbiker.com/v-web/gallery/ Some are pictures of him (Curtis) and some are of his friends.

RockyMtnRay

02-25-2005, 10:52 AM

I think the Jury is still out on the WD hitch for my configuration. I'm still undecided. My hope is that I have enough weight capacity for a few more toys. I'd like to get a quad for my wife that would fit in the back of the truck and a street legal dirt bike for somewhere else, maybe the front bumper. My son is recommending I get a Yamaha 250 four stroke. If I have to, I'm sure he'll volunteer to drive his(my) truck along with the toys in it.

You'll need to watch the GCWR, GVWR, and GAWR(rear) very closely when you start talking hauling Quads and/or dirt bikes in the truck. After you get the trailer, take the entire rig in going-camping configuration (including all passengers and their gear) to a scale and get your axle weights. Yeah, you've got a HD model but it's still also a 1500 series.

To a degree I'm facing the same thing this coming summer...I picked up a perfect condition 1982 Honda XL250 Street/Trail bike last fall that's going to be part of my going-camping gear on a lot of trips this summer. Along with the kayak and the mountain bike. I like to bring my "toys" when I go out to play. :D

water pump
gasket seal
ball peen hammer
2002 Chevy Silverado 1500HD LT 4wd crew cab long bed

Nice hammer though.

Been there, done that. Frame the hammer. :)

We were in Colorado last year. Race was near Aspen. I think the resort name is Snowmass. On the right a mile or two before the airport.

Yep, that would be Snowmass. Great place for skiing!

Son has a good friend in Boulder and spent a few days with him without us. We went to Yellowstone on the way from Idaho (Schweitzer Mountain) to Aspen. If you like mountain bikeing check out http://www.leelikesbikes.com Lee used to be here in San Jose, but moved a couple of years ago to Boulder. He writes well and posts some cool pictures.

Nice pics. Cool but not my style. I'm a recreational trail rider...and at age 56 I try to keep the spills and thrills dialed down to "safer" levels. ;)

I bought my son a website for Christmas a year ago http://www.beaverbiker.com With a last name of Beavers, what else would you name it?

He wants me to redo his website so he asked me to put up an "Under Construction" page. But the photo gallery is still there if you know where to look http://beaverbiker.com/v-web/gallery/ Some are pictures of him (Curtis) and some are of his friends.
Great pics. Clearly your son likes air. A LOT of air. :D

Got a grin out of the shots taken at Big Bear...back in the early 90s before I retired from the US Air Force I was stationed at March AFB (just outside Riverside) and did a lot of skiing at Big Bear (I was training to compete in the USAF World Wide Ski Meet). The runs aren't very long but they do have a few moderately steep pitches and it looks like that race went down some of the steeper ones.

live2shopnc

02-25-2005, 02:45 PM

I agree--if not too late get the lift kit. I also had the heavier axle and 15 in. tires put on my 2720 sd. Never dragged bottom (YET)

Bill

02-25-2005, 05:35 PM

Texas Camper posted regarding Hi-Lo:I understand they have a button you can push and it opens automatically. Hopefully, TM will come up with that feature soon.Diff'rent strokes, I guess. We met some folks with a Hi-Lo, and it does indeed open with the push of a button. It was truly easy, and they were so proud. It apparently involves a hydraulic pump powered by an electric motor, some hydraulic lift cylinders (4?), an accumulator, hydraulic lines, valves, etc. Of course if any part of the lift mechanism malfunctions, it won't open at all. It's all or nothing. (Or maybe there is a labor-intensive manual crank.) And if your battery is dead, you are in trouble. Maybe the charge line from the tow vehicle will do it, I'm not sure, but an electrical failure could also strand you. Of course, the entire Hi-Lo lift mechanism adds some substantial weight to the trailer - HiLos are notoriously heavy. I think I'll stick with the tried-and-proven torsion lift on my TM.

However, I do understand that not everyone is comfortable or able to grab the shells and make the pull-out-and-up maneuver. For those who choose it, I think a power assist might be a nice option. I just hope it remains an option, and that TM doesn't get sucked into the Hi-Lo all-or-nothing approach. I have faith in the Hulsey boys.

And live2shopnc saidI agree--if not too late, get the lift kit. I also had the heavier axle and 15 in. tires put on my 2720 sd.Ooh, I hope this works, and please post since this is my dream configuration for my next TM. But with a 7-foot (84" garage door), it may not fit. My '02 2720SL (14" tires, no lift kit) touches the top of my 82-1/2" garage door opening - not the door, mind you, but the door FRAME at the top of the opening. So an additional 1/2" in tire height, maybe some added axle height, and 2" in lift kit height, may result in a trailer that does not fit. (Hope I'm wrong!)

Bill

PopBeavers

02-25-2005, 07:18 PM

I haven't figured out how you do the cute quotes, so here goes the hard way...

Texas Camper said:

"I find it interesting that you think the 2720 will have more useable space than a 30 foot motor home."

This may be more of a floor plan issue. In my in-laws motor home (somewhere around 30 foot) the sink and stove are almost side by side with very little counter space between them. Directly behind them is the table.

The TM 2720 has the stove and sink opposite each other and slightly offset. There is also more counter space alongside both the sink and stove. It appears possible to have three people preparing dinner in the 2720. One at the stove and counter, second at sink and counter, third at table, sitting or standing. In the motor home, there is only room for one person standing. Someone can sit at the table, but it is very tight.

Fortunately, my wife and I have no objection to the beds in the 2720. We don't have any health condition (yet) that would make it difficult to climb in and out. We don't mind the modest climb.

Texas Camper also said:

"If you plan to boondock often, you should consider the lift kit. This raises the TM 2 inches."

Actually, the brochure says 2.5 inches. I am concerned about clearing the header to the garage door. As it is I am planning on removing the present one piece door and replacing it with a roll up. The dealer tells me that they can add the lift kit later, after I have determined exactly what my vertical clearance is. Two weeks to get the parts plus an hour and a half to install. We didn't discuss labor costs. My interest in the lift kit is when pulling into some of the dirt parking areas alongside rivers. Not being paved, they get to be a little lumpy. But, RULE number 1, I won't pay to park it at home. I'll live without the lift kit if I have to. I'm pretty sure that a lift kit *AND* taller wheels are out of the question. It seems to me that the lift kit is the better choice if I can only choose one.

Loan was approved today. Order is being placed. Wait time, they say, is 4 to 6 weeks. I hope to use it April 13. I need to pick it up Saturday 4/9 to make it. That is 6 weeks from tomorrow.

PopBeavers

02-25-2005, 07:21 PM

Texas Camper asked: "What was your impression of the Hi-Lo?"

The only Hi-Lo I can get in my garage is the 17 footer. It doesn't sleep four adults very well. We prefer the queen and double beds in the 2720. The dinette can also be used if we have to.

Bill

02-26-2005, 10:38 AM

Wayne -

I can't give you definitive advise, but if you have to choose between the lift kit on one hand, and the 5000 pound axle/15" tires on the other, think about it carefully. The 2720 with 14" wheels and 3500 pound axle is not hard to overload, especially if you option it up from the factory as most of us do (air conditioner, awning, etc). When you add water in the tanks for dry camping, propane in those tanks, a microwave, food (for a 24-year old athletic boy!), TV, clothes, etc, it mounts up pretty fast. And you sound like you take a ton of other stuff with you, related to the bikes. If you put most of it in the truck, then your TM is OK - but if you hope to carry a lot of it in the TM, it may be a problem.

Bill

B_and_D

02-26-2005, 12:50 PM

Wayne -

Congratulations on your purchase! I think you'll really enjoy it.

We hope to see you on the road once in a while with your TM. If you're in San Jose we're about 40 or so miles from you.

D

PopBeavers

03-05-2005, 07:59 AM

I callad the factory regarding special ordering the 2720 with larger axle and 15 inch wheels. Mike talked me out of it. He confinced me that:

1. he had only heard of this being done once.
2. it requires building the trailer outside of the normal assembly line (I understood that to mean much higher cost and longer build time)

PopBeavers

03-19-2005, 10:17 PM

On our way from San Jose to Auburn today we stopped by Dinuba RV in Rio Vista. Our TM 2720 was schedueled to be completed yesterday and should ship this coming week. We have a tentative appointment to pick it up on Saturday.

Only had a little bit of time to visit. We had never been to the shop. We bought the TM at a show and only talked with them at the show and on the phone.

Stan was very polite and helpful, even though he was busy with another customer. We discussed mirrors and he showed me the mirrors that he uses. These are the ones that slip over the stock mirrors. I think I prefer that over the mirrors that strap on to the door. I have a week to decide.

Mostly we walked through the TM's on the lot and salivated.

New roll-up garage doors have been installed. The TM will be easy to get in. The 2002 chevy 1500HD will fit if I park it perfectly straight. The rubber molding on the bottom of the door rubs on the rear bumper, but the door itself clears the bumper. I am seriously considering creating a framed in recess into the wall to give me a couple of extra inches to spare. I'm not sure if the fire code would permit it. Not sure I'm going to look it up either. The wall is probably 3 5/8 inches thick (2x4) plus the 1/2 inch or 5/8 inch sheet rock. Also not sure how much of a load the wall is carrying. Single story home, but the roof is concrete tile.

Odyssey brake controller gets installed tomorrow, by me.

I'm feeling like a little kid in a candy store.

YWORRYDOG

03-20-2005, 04:53 AM

Wayne, before you buy the slip on mirrors, look at this
http://www.tow-n-see.com I have about the same set up as you will. I left the Mckiesh mirrors in the garage on the last trip. They are just a tad small, but can be adjusted with the electric mirrors. Also with a wider truck like yours, they work find. I got the convex one for the curb side, but wish I hadn't.

PopBeavers

03-20-2005, 09:09 AM

The tow-n-see looks interesting. The suction cup attachment makes me nervous. Just how long will the suction last? I would think that they need to be removed and reseated once in awhile. If that is once a day that would be fine.

I will admit that a flat glass surface is pretty much ideal as a suction mount point.

YWORRYDOG

03-20-2005, 11:07 AM

Wayne, I think you box for e-mail is full so I'll post it here:

Hi Wayne,
The mirrors come with a safety cord that goes around you mirror. I put my on Friday night. We got 8" of snow by Saturday when we left. I did not remove them until Sunday night. I had to pry the corner on the cup, even after screwing the knob back in.

Factor

03-21-2005, 08:18 AM

I have been checking these mirrows out, by looking at the Web Page provided. I called the distributors, but, they would not quote a price. So, called the dealer Recreation World in Thunder Bay, Ontario. They gave me a quote of $47.95 + 15% tax. They didn't know what I was talking about until they found a new booklet by Danzy Distributors Ltd. Says there are convex and regular type mirrors. Before I spend $100+ dollars, I'd sure like to know that these are excellent mirror to buy. I was thinking of the Mckesh, but, after hearing that one TM owner left them in the garage and used the Tow-N-See, it seems they are better. Any more suggestions??

John, Atikokan, Ontario 'the canoeing capital of Canada'
2003 Montana AWD
2004 3023 TM

Bill

03-21-2005, 03:17 PM

John -

I have never used the Tow-And-See, but let me offer a couple of random comments.

First, a wide-field convex miror is a good thing, because it will tell you that "something" is back there. But it provides NO depth perception - it gives you no clue how far back that "something" is. To estimate distance, you need a flat mirror. The phrase

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear"

is an understatement, a gentle warning of that situation. And it will be even more true with a mirror as small as the Tow-And-See. It is possible you would need two Tow-And-Sees on each side - one convex, one flat.

Second, the Tow-And-Sees don't appear to stick out very far beyond the stock mirrors. If you have a wide tow vehicle, it may be enough. I'm not sure that a Montana falls into that category, since it is 72" wide, same as my Explorer - and my Explorer definitely does not fall into that category. Remember, a Trail Manor is 91" wide, and at a very minimum, you need to be able to see straight down both sides of the trailer. This means that your mirrors must be 91" apart at the middle of the glass - the outer edges will be farther apart.

After all, if small mirrors were adequate, 18-wheelers wouldn't use mirrors as big as a kitchen table.

There have been a lot of discussions about mirrors on the board. I'm sure you've seen them. Many people have tried clip-on/slide-on/tie-on mirrors, and been dissatisfied. Most have gone to McKesh, and you will find a lot of really enthusiastic McKesh supporters, both here and on other boards. True, one guy does say that he left his McKeshs in the garage. What was his tow vehicle? Regardless, if you make your decision based on this one guy, vs all the others, let us know what you find. There's more than one mirror in the world!

Bill

YWORRYDOG

03-22-2005, 05:33 AM

Bill, I am the “one guy” you refer to.

You are right, the width of the TV is the key. I have pulled many trailers and used the McKesh mirrors.. In fact, my McKesh mirrors have been with me for a long time. They are chrome plated that tells you they are old. I Always had a mini van, or S-10 at that time.

Now that I have a full size truck I can see down the sides of the TM with the stock mirrors. The Tow N See give me just enough to see behind the TM. Also a plus is that they fit in a shoe box size storage box in the back of the truck when not in use.

PopBeavers

03-26-2005, 09:33 AM

On Thursday around noon our new TM was still in Kansas. There were two drivers. No truth to the rumor that it is Dorothy and Toto. They had expected to be in California by noon Friday. I don't know what part of Kansas they were in, but to get from Topeka to Rio Vista would require an average speed of 65 mph with no stops, driving all night. As of 7 pm Friday they were still somewhere in Nevada. The factory rep kept Stan at Dinuba RV updated with the current location periodically.

Our TM was at the dealer some time this morning. Stan says they will have it preped by noon. We will be there around 1:00. I have a printed copy of the checklist.

Besides my wife and I, her brother and his son are going along for the ride. If it weren't for the detour, the dealer is a 2 hour drive one way.

The first thing I will be able to share is the interior color. My wife did not like the sand color. We ordered the blue interior, based on brochure pictures. Too late to change our mind now. Most people on the forum seem to prefer the sand color because it is bright. Dinuba RV only stocks the sand color. We thought the sand color was a little washed out. The blue looks more elegant, we think.

Stay tuned. More when there is more.

PopBeavers

03-27-2005, 12:24 AM

Uneventful but exciting day today. Our new 2005 2720 is home, but not yet in the garage. First time in, I would prefer to back it in during the daylight. Towed nicely. It did bounce a little. I do not have a WD hitch. I don't foresee any problems with sway, but sometimes it felt like a bucking bronco. As if the rear bumper of the truck was going up and down a little more than it should. TV is 2002 Chevy Silverado 1500hd crew cab 4wd. Will a WD hitch help the bouncing? Is it worth the money?

What I learned today...

There is an interlock switch controlling the overhead lights. If the bathroom walls are folded down the lights go out. Makes for an interesting situation when trying to fold it down after dark and I don't have a flashlight. Always have a flashlight!!!

Always fold the step up first when closing. Once one of the shells is down, the step can not be folded up. I learned this trick twice in one day. I’ll probably learn it a few more times on the first trip out next month.

While parked on the city street, leaning slightly curbside, it is just as easy to open as when it is level. However, it is not as easy to close. It took two of us to close it while it was leaning.

Guess what the dealer uses to operate the jacks? A cordless drill with an allen wrench, of course.

I was discussing generators with Clayton, the service technician at Dinuba RV. I was explaining that I had heard that most people prefer dual Honda 2000's instead of a single Honda 3000 because the Honda 3000 is a little heavy for some people to load/unload from the TV solo. Clayton says he has mounted Honda 3000 generators on the tongue of the 2720, even with the swing away hitch. This requires relocating the propane cylinders a little wider apart, but apparently it has been done. Interesting. BTW the front battery tray has room for 3 12-volt batteries, but it only comes with one.

We like the blue interior color scheme.

There is a single switch on the inside by the door. If you go to bed and realize that you left some of the exterior lights on, this one switch will turn them all off. Nice touch. I like that. I have had to go outside before and always grumbled.

It came from the factory with a small plastic step for climbing onto the bed. Another nice touch. I don’t need it, but it was thoughtful.

I had the checklist from the forum with me. After Clayton showed me how to operate everything he left us alone for a couple of hours while we scrutinized everything. We did not find a single item to report. Considering that Dinuba RV had in for not more than 6 hours before we arrived is a tribute to the factory. It is a little dusty inside and could use a good wipe down, but definitely does not require any scrubbing. Others have said that it should be spotless when delivered, but we were unwilling to wait another week just so someone could wipe it down. Being 200 miles away and closed on Sundays it only leaves Saturdays for me to pick it up. BTW I'd like to thank the assembly crew for the extra screws that they left behind in various odd places. I have some matching spares now.

I need/want towing mirrors. Though I wouldn't say it was dangerous to drive it home with the stock mirrors on my 1500hd crew cab, changing lanes required extra care. Wider mirrors would help a lot.

I had a hard time keeping the speed down to the legal limit of 55 mph. If I didn't watch the speedometer, I found I was running as fast as 65 without even realizing it. I think I have more tow vehicle than I need. But it was very comfortable with 4 adults.

In a previous post I believe that I mentioned that I wanted the lift kit but was concerned that it might not clear the garage door. So the plan was to order the trailer without the lift kit and then measure actual clearance as I backed it in. The dealer can add the lift kit afterwards. Well, the best laid plans of mice and men... If it doesn't fit I will have to have the lift kit removed. But I think it will fit, so my backfired plan may work out for the best anyway. I'll find out tomorrow for sure.

RockyMtnRay

03-27-2005, 08:06 AM

It did bounce a little. I do not have a WD hitch. I don't foresee any problems with sway, but sometimes it felt like a bucking bronco. As if the rear bumper of the truck was going up and down a little more than it should. TV is 2002 Chevy Silverado 1500hd crew cab 4wd. Will a WD hitch help the bouncing? Is it worth the money?

Some (maybe a lot) of the bounce in the rear may be due to fairly worn shocks on the truck (especially at the rear). If they're still the OEM ones, they're likely pretty worn out and probably were not very good to begin with. I suggest you invest in a set of high quality gas shocks like those made by Bilstein that have dampening that's proportional to suspension vertical velocity.

I recently helped a TundraSolutions member with an ill-behaving truck that he was using to pull a 6500 lb trailer. He had the Hensley hitch (with both 1000 lb and 1400 lb bars) but was still getting a lot of pitching motion in the truck. Turned out he had the stock (soft), linear dampening Tokico shocks...once I got him to upgrade to the substantially better (and stiffer) Bilsteins that Toyota included in the TRD (Toyota Racing Development) Suspension options, his problems largely disappeared.

And yes, a WDH will also likely reduce the bounce by quite a bit. Part of the bounce is at the rear but some of it is also from the front of the truck being so unweighted by the tongue weight. The WDH will reweight the truck's front suspension. And simply removing a great deal of the tongue weight (plus transferred weight from the unweighted front suspension) will let the rear suspension return to near-normal loading/ride-height/behavior.

Since you seem to have an aversion to getting/using a WDH, if I were you I'd upgrade the shocks on the truck first. Then, if you still have bounce, get the WDH.

My truck came with the TRD Off Road Suspension (tuned springs and Bilstein shocks), I use a WDH (750 lb bars), and I've never had any noticeable bounce despite having a heavily loaded TM and a shorter wheelbase than your 'burban.

PopBeavers

03-27-2005, 07:10 PM

RockyMtnRay, thanks for the tip on the shocks. Hadn't thought of that. More than likely the shocks are still factory and there is 62,000 miles on them. Time for an upgrade I think.

Spent all day cleaning, fussing and stocking a little. Tried to install a radio, but at full volume it barely put out any sound. I don't know if it is the radio, speaker or wiring. I have other radios collecting dust in the garage and some speakers lying around also. I'll do some bench testing and figure it out. The radio I was trying to install came out of my son's truck. I think that the current rating of 10 amps is a little high for something I intend to play off of the TM trailer battery. I may look around and see if I can find a more efficient radio.

Learned how to fold it down in the rain. We had decent weather all day until closing time.

TM fit in the garage, even with the un-anticipated lift kit. I had about an inch of vertical clearance. If the garage were 6 inches deeper I wouldn't need the swing away hitch. I ended up nearly 2 feet from the sidewall. There is a low profile dolly in the JCWhitney catalog that I intend to purchase and give a try. I should be able to back onto the dolly and then push the TM sideways to make a little more room to park a car or the truck next to it.

One thing I'll need to modify is the overhead storage over the front bunk. This has been designated as where our son can keep some of his clothes. At least socks and underwear. The wiring in both corners for the speakers and the lights are not protected. If he overstuffs the cabinet he will be pushing on the wires. I'll need to figure out how to create a barrier. Maybe just a couple of pieces of styrofoam cut to shape will be adequate.

I think I forgot to mention in a post yesterday that Clayton at Dinuba RV claims he can completely engage the jacks by using his electric drill with the allen wrench. He uses a Sears Craftsman dual speed. Use high speed when there is no load and switch to low speed when there is a load. I think he said it was a 19-volt model. I know mine is 16 volts. His looked a little larger than I recalled mine was. Clayton says he never needs to use the hand crank.

There was a lot of black stuff under the stove. My guess is that some of the black paint in a non-visible area cooked off the first time it was fired up. I’ll keep an eye on it and see if any more shows up.

PopBeavers

03-29-2005, 06:14 PM

For the trip home, 193 miles, I got 12.2 mpg. I tried real hard to keep my speed at 55, but it crept up as high as 65 if I took my eyes off the speedometer for too long.

My mileage is 13.5 with no cargo at 70 mph. So the penalty for towing an empty TM 2720 is I have to slow down to 55 and my fuel economy drops off 1 mpg.

hingarfi

04-12-2005, 03:28 PM

Wayne:

Sounds like you are having fun with the new 2720. I have read this thread because I would like to order a 2720. Is your configuration: 2720 + 15" wheels + lift + Low-Profile AC ? If so, could you tell me height. My garage door is 82" and I would like to order the above configuration and still get it in garage. Any info you provide will be appreciated.

Bert
TV 2002 TrailBlazer EXT I6

wesslvm

04-12-2005, 03:50 PM

There was a lot of black stuff under the stove. My guess is that some of the black paint in a non-visible area cooked off the first time it was fired up. I’ll keep an eye on it and see if any more shows up.

PB,

We experienced the black paint peeling off the base of the oven our first several trips out. DW really hated the mess. Finally, we decided to leave the grill off the cook top (we store it in the base of our chair), and we no longer have this problem. I think the grill rack was vibrating.

Good luck!

Vince

PopBeavers

04-12-2005, 08:07 PM

Sounds like you are having fun with the new 2720. I have read this thread because I would like to order a 2720. Is your configuration: 2720 + 15" wheels + lift + Low-Profile AC ? If so, could you tell me height. My garage door is 82" and I would like to order the above configuration and still get it in garage. Any info you provide will be appreciated.

Bert
TV 2002 TrailBlazer EXT I6

Bert,

My garage door vertical height is 83 inches. I have the 2720 with stock wheels, tires and axles. Lift kit is welded in. A/C is roof mount. As far as I know they only offer the low profile A/C. If the TM was an inch taller it would not fit.

FWIW, the closest thing to dragging on the ground going in and out of my driveway, standard city situation, is the battery tray in the front. I clear the ground by about 2.5 inches. I have closer to 6 inches ground clearance at the rear end, bumper with factory welded hitch receiver.

Traler is presently hitched and loaded. I take it to work tomorrow and then leave from their for the first trip out. I should have a bit more to share when I get back.

B_and_D

04-12-2005, 09:24 PM

Please share your trip report with us! The weather should be pretty good. I can FINALLY start going on weekend trips again...and can't wait. I hope you really enjoy having your TM.

Take pictures, too, OK!

D'

hingarfi

04-12-2005, 09:27 PM

Wayne:

Thanks for the details. My garage door sounds about the same as yours. Looks like I will have to chose either 15" wheels OR the 2" lift if I want AC.

Thanks for your help and have fun with the new TM.

PopBeavers

04-12-2005, 11:22 PM

Bert,

I called the factory before my 2720 was built to inquire about getting 15 inch wheels with the heavier axle.

They have done it before but only a few times. It also requires that the build occur outside the normal fab line. I think I posted a few more details a few weeks ago on this topic.

My limited recomendation is if you need the weight capacity then consider the 15 inch wheels with heavier axle and no lift kit. If you just need the extra ground clearance then go for the lift kit and stay with the standard wheels and axles. This was the factory recommendation and I think it will work out fine for me.

hth

Boy, it sure took a lot longer to pack the first time. At least next time a lot of the stuff will stay onboard, saving time on future trips.

If anyone is around Salinas/Monterray CA this weekend stop by. I will likely be the only TM in the parking lot camping at Laguna Seca. Should be easy to find me. :)

Frenchy

04-13-2005, 06:37 AM

You may want to have your TM wheels balanced if you are getting that kind of vibration.

PopBeavers

04-22-2005, 01:10 AM

I looked around to see if there was a better place to post a trip report but nothing jumped out at me. Since I started this thread I figured it made some sense to keep it going for a while longer.

Arrived at Laguna Seca Raceway for the Sea Otter Classic mountain bike race Wednesday 4/13 and returned home Sunday 4/24. This was a relatively short trip. About an hour and a half each way.

Our son placed 19th out of 78 riders in the pro class. This is his first year pro. Some of the time the TM will be used as a race support station. He also did well in two other events. For anyone interested in race results check out their web site at www.seaotterclassic.com

We have a lot of friends at the races that we have met over the years. Everyone that stopped by thought that the TM had some very clever engineering.

One stranger stopped by. He used to own a TM 2720 but traded it for a regular trailer. His wife could not tolerate the lack of air conditioning when camping in Spokane in the summer. It also was annoying to set up and take down in the heat he said. He also lives on 5 acres so storing it is not a problem.

In an earlier posting I had been inquiring about bucking like a bronco. I think this may have been caused by too low tire inflation. Apparently my local mechanic keeps my tires around 50 psi. This is great for driving around town empty. Apparently this wasn't very good for towing the TM home from the dealer. Factory recommendation on the sticker is 50 psi front and 80 psi rear. Tires are rated for 80 psi. My mechanic suggested 60 psi front and 70 psi rear when towing. He isn't fond of running tires at maximum pressure unless there is a good reason to. I liked the handling at 60 and 70 psi.

I don't like the McKesh mirrors. They vibrate. Based on comments from others I was expecting the vibration to be zero. This is what the factory mirrors deliver. At the race I checked out a similar truck that had the factory extendable mirrors. They are worthless. Extended out to the maximum setting they were still 3 inches too far in when compared to the distance I had selected for my McKesh mirrors. At least with the McKesh mirrors I could see behind me. It was just annoying that they jiggled so much. Also, the installation instructions don't warn you to loosen the three screws at the bottom of the mirror. The first time I attempted to adjust the mirror it cracked the glass. After loosening the mirror I could adjust it. However, it is difficult to find a screw tightness that is loose enough to allow adjusting the mirror and tight enough that it doesn't vibrate out of the adjusted position. This will become very annoying when we go on longer trips and alternate drivers. Every time we change drivers we will need to readjust the mirrors, which will require the use of an angled screw driver. I also don't think the bolt that attaches the mirror to the extension bracket should have arrived rusted. They should be bolts that can tolerate rain etc. Perhaps they should be stainless steel or galvanized. Not just cheap junk bolts with black paint on them. These bolts also wiggle loose. Maybe some locktite will help. The split ring washer was inadequate to hold one mirror in place. Driving home solo at freeway speed in heavy traffic I suddenly found that the passenger side mirror had swiveled so far out that I could not even see the glass mirror at all.

Batteries don't last long. I have two group 24 batteries. For Wednesday and Thursday nights we ran only one florescent light fixture each evening, except for brief intervals when looking for something. The furnace was used for half an hour Wednesday night and a little more Thursday night. The stereo was on 4 to 6 hours each day. By Friday morning it was showing Fair instead of Good. It wasn't clear to me that when I should charge the batteries, so I charged them Friday. Using the meter built into the TM how can you determine when you have reached the maximum recommended discharge level and know that it is NECESSARY to start the generator to charge them? I don't want to damage the battery from too much discharge and I also don't want to start the generator unnecessarily. Gotta figure that one out somehow.

I learned that the fridge can freeze tomatoes. It looks like if the daytime high is around 80 and the overnight low is below freezing then there is no single setting for the fridge that will work. So until I figure out a better way I will need to crank it up in the morning to a very cold setting and then set it back to a warmer setting when I go to bed. I want cold beer at high noon and I also don't want anything to freeze overnight.

My wife thinks the mattress is too hard while I think it is perfect. At home she thinks the mattress is perfect and I think it is too hard. Go figure.

The TM had plenty of storage for the trip, but it is not very convenient when in camp. For the first time in my life I have experienced the importance of "a place for everything and everything in its place". The straps that keep the curtains open are perfect for storing my reading glasses when not in use. The tops of the cabinet and closet are great for the TM binder (I had to look a lot of stuff up and it sure was nice having it handy) and other flat stuff. There was a tendency for clutter to accumulate on the counter top. No one want so put anything away after they take it out.

Not sure what to do about the toilet chemicals. The dealer recommended a quarter bottle. The documentation said to use the whole bottle. I decided it was easier to add some than to take some out, so I used a third of the bottle. After two days it didn't smell very nice so I added some. It still didn't smell very nice so I added the Potty Toddy tablet that I had forgotten about and the odor problem went away. Gotta fine tune that issue.

The brand new Farberware pots slide around on the stove very easily. Need to be careful about that before I end up with hot water in my lap.

The furnace worked well. Though it is a little noisy, at least it cranks out some pretty serious heat in a hurry. It can warm up the TM nicely in about 10 or 15 minutes.

Not knowing how much water we would use I took along 10 gallons of bottled water for coffee and cooking, plus the 40 gallons under the seat. The gauge shows a quarter tank remaining, but if I lift the seat to look at the side of the tank it is closer to half full. I plan on adding water to an empty tank, 5 gallons at a time, and calibrating it so I have a better idea of what the gauge actually means.

The holding tanks showed full earlier than I had expected. I don't know how full it actually was. I intend to calibrate that as well by adding water to the holding tank until the gauge shows full. Then add more water until it starts to back up in the shower. Then I'll know how much time I have left after the gauge shows full.

I’m going to look for some sort of round rod that will fit through the holes in the front and read rock shields when they are open. This will make a great place to dry towels in the sun.

Care must be exercised when setting up the bathroom walls. When swinging the side wall forward from the back wall it has a tendency to catch the lower wall at the bottom of the hinge. I have found that I need to lean against the rear bunk while performing this operation.

I’m glad we ordered vinyl floors instead of carpet. Camped in a paved parking lot we still had to sweep every other day. In the future I will be camped in dirt parking lots. Carpet would not hold up well for us. I am considering looking for remnant carpet, cut to fit, with edges hemmed. This would be nice to have in cold weather. We could take it out to clean when we get home. It should be cheap enough that I could replace it every five years or so.

Tear down went so well and quick that I left my wedding ring and watch inside. That wasn’t on any check list I saw!

My wife didn’t know she was supposed to remove the D cell batteries from the little fridge fan.

When I was swinging away the hitch in the garage I heard a fan running. I disconnected the batteries and the noise went away. I’ll have the TM open his weekend for a better cleaning and figure out what we left on.

I don’t remember turning off the water heater. Propane is off at the tanks and the battery is disconnected. I can’t image that any damage will occur. The check list without the reference to wedding rings and watches probably said to turn off the water heater, but us know it alls don’t look at check lists, even when we have them. Maybe next time.

Forgot to make sure the latches were clear before closing the top down. Had to lift it back up because one latch was jammed under the top. I don’t recall reading that in the check list. I’ll have to look that one up.

The bolts for one of the latches are loose. This is the latch that initially captures the top as you stand on the foot loop. It wiggles enough that it requires two people to close the TM. One to stand on the loop and another to close the spring loaded latch. I’ll try adjusting it, but it may need to go back to the dealer.

I plan on adding a tube for storing the sewer hose. This will free up some space in the bumper storage for other things that would be nice to have accessible while the TM is closed.

I had to wire the radio ignition lead to the battery. There was no time to install a switch as others have done. So I just pull the fuse when I close the TM so the radio has no power.

Forgot to turn the two outside lights off before going to bed. My son thought it was clever that there was a switch inside that would kill both lights without having to go outside. I wasn’t expecting to utilize that feature the first night.

That’s enough of my rambling for now. All in all the TM performed very well and we are quite pleased with it.

RockyMtnRay

04-22-2005, 07:19 AM

I don't like the McKesh mirrors. They vibrate. Based on comments from others I was expecting the vibration to be zero. This is what the factory mirrors deliver. At the race I checked out a similar truck that had the factory extendable mirrors. They are worthless. Extended out to the maximum setting they were still 3 inches too far in when compared to the distance I had selected for my McKesh mirrors. At least with the McKesh mirrors I could see behind me. It was just annoying that they jiggled so much. Also, the installation instructions don't warn you to loosen the three screws at the bottom of the mirror. The first time I attempted to adjust the mirror it cracked the glass. After loosening the mirror I could adjust it. However, it is difficult to find a screw tightness that is loose enough to allow adjusting the mirror and tight enough that it doesn't vibrate out of the adjusted position. This will become very annoying when we go on longer trips and alternate drivers. Every time we change drivers we will need to readjust the mirrors, which will require the use of an angled screw driver. I also don't think the bolt that attaches the mirror to the extension bracket should have arrived rusted. They should be bolts that can tolerate rain etc. Perhaps they should be stainless steel or galvanized. Not just cheap junk bolts with black paint on them. These bolts also wiggle loose. Maybe some locktite will help. The split ring washer was inadequate to hold one mirror in place. Driving home solo at freeway speed in heavy traffic I suddenly found that the passenger side mirror had swiveled so far out that I could not even see the glass mirror at all.

Hmmmm....never have had any vibration problems with my McKesh. The nylon strap has to be very, very tight though. Have had some problems with the mirror mounting bolts twisting loose...but a bit of wrenching solved that. Not sure what to say about the other adjustment issues as I'm the sole driver of my rig.

Batteries don't last long. I have two group 24 batteries. For Wednesday and Thursday nights we ran only one florescent light fixture each evening, except for brief intervals when looking for something. The furnace was used for half an hour Wednesday night and a little more Thursday night. The stereo was on 4 to 6 hours each day. By Friday morning it was showing Fair instead of Good. It wasn't clear to me that when I should charge the batteries, so I charged them Friday. Using the meter built into the TM how can you determine when you have reached the maximum recommended discharge level and know that it is NECESSARY to start the generator to charge them? I don't want to damage the battery from too much discharge and I also don't want to start the generator unnecessarily. Gotta figure that one out somehow.

If the TM battery gauge is on "F" after the battery voltage has had time to stablize (about 15 minutes with no electrical use), then you have only about 30% of capacity left and its definitely time to recharge. Taking those RV/Marine type batteries below 30% charge will definitely shorten their life. I doubt you can stand to run the generator long enough (it would need to run for about 8 hours) to overcharge the batteries.

I would bet the stereo was what was killing your battery time...typical car stereos use 2 to 5 amps (or more) of current even at moderate listening levels. At 5 amps that would equal 30 amp-hours per day...which is a heckuva lot. Learn to live without tunes more of the time if you want more battery life.

I learned that the fridge can freeze tomatoes. It looks like if the daytime high is around 80 and the overnight low is below freezing then there is no single setting for the fridge that will work. So until I figure out a better way I will need to crank it up in the morning to a very cold setting and then set it back to a warmer setting when I go to bed. I want cold beer at high noon and I also don't want anything to freeze overnight.

Don't you know you should NOT refrigerate tomatoes. :eek: Most produce people (http://www.producepete.com/shows/tomato.html) will tell you it kills the flavor, the nutrients, the texture.

That being said, I have no problems keeping the beer quite cold, the ice cream frozen, and the delicate lettuce from NOT freezing. And I don't have to continually re-adjust the refrigerator temperature either even though I allow the trailer interior to drop into the low 50s at night and rise into the low 80s during the day. The trick is to use a fridge fan (as you are apparently using) and leave LOTS of room around objects in the fridge to allow the fan to readily circulate the air. Don't try to cram a lot of food into the fridge...even with a fridge fan you will get spots that are too cold and others that too warm. It also helps enormously to have a Fridge Alarm (http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=21870&src=SRQA) to be able to precisely monitor internal temps of the refer compartment and to sound an alarm if it gets hotter or colder than you want. I set my Fridge alarms for 45 degrees on the high side and 35 degrees on the low side and seldomly ever have an alarm go off with the refer control set at about "3" (Dometic refer).

PopBeavers

04-22-2005, 08:37 AM

I would bet the stereo was what was killing your battery time

Don't you know you should NOT refrigerate tomatoes.

It also helps enormously to have a Fridge Alarm.

I thought it might be the music that was the big drain. But if I turn off the music in the trailer then the music will get turned on in car. That just moves the problem. During the day it might make sense to play music on the truck that will be driven the most as that one will get a chance to recharge. In a campground this won't happen. But at bike races our trailer will be the pit area with untold quantities of 20 somethings hanging out repairing bikes. I kinda like them hanging out at our place. Makes it easy to see what sort of friends our kids have. At age 16 this was a good parenting trick. At age 22 I'm just nosey.

But Ray, I LIKE cold tomatoes on my sandwich.

Didn't know about the fridge alarm. I have seen posts about using an indoor/outdoor thermometer to display the temperature. The alarm looks like a better mousetrap. Thanks for the tip. Yours is the first reference to the fridge alarm that I have seen, and I have spent a lot of time reading the TM forums plus RV.net.

RockyMtnRay

04-22-2005, 09:43 AM

I thought it might be the music that was the big drain. But if I turn off the music in the trailer then the music will get turned on in car. That just moves the problem. During the day it might make sense to play music on the truck that will be driven the most as that one will get a chance to recharge. In a campground this won't happen. But at bike races our trailer will be the pit area with untold quantities of 20 somethings hanging out repairing bikes. I kinda like them hanging out at our place. Makes it easy to see what sort of friends our kids have. At age 16 this was a good parenting trick. At age 22 I'm just nosey.

I appreciate the problem...it's nearly impossible to separate 20 something guys from their music and just about as impossible to have the music at a low volume level (e.g. one that doesn't suck a steady 20 amps out of a battery :rolleyes: ). I was once like that myself so I really do empathize.

Sounds to me like you need some means of automatic daily battery recharge. Solar is pretty darn good for this since it works all by itself whenever there's sunshine. Even a single 100 to 120 watt panel would give you around 7 amps in full sunshine and it would do it all day long. If you're mostly parked in open areas (like parking lots) for these bike races...where the steady use of the stereo will be highest...you'll also likely have a lot of sunshine, at least in Cali. Solar isn't cheap, but if you can keep the panels in full sun, it's a great way to keep batteries charged up when you have high and unavoidable levels of daily battery drain.

P.S. Having solar power will also most likely raise your "coolness" factor amongst your son's friends.

PopBeavers

04-24-2005, 04:44 PM

I accidentally learned the optimum sequence for disconnecting the TM from the TV yesterday.

1. Unplug electrical connector
2. Disconnect hitch from TV with wheel on tongue.
3. Disconnect safety chains.
4. Disconnect breakaway cable.

The sequence of 3 and 4 is not critical. The sequence of steps 1, 2 and 3 *ARE* critical.

I had one wheel up on a ramp a few inches and forgot to chock the TM wheels. As the hitch released the TM rolled backwards until:
A. The TM brakes locked.
B. The safety chains were stretched tight.

This being in front of my house on a nearly level street it wouldn't have rolled very far. If I had disconnected the brake cable and safety cables first then this could have been a disaster. This is why I recommend leaving at least the safety cables attached until after the hitch is released.

I had actually considered leaving the wheel off the tongue and just setting a wooden block under the post. Good thing I didn’t do that. The post wouldn’t have rolled very well without the wheel.

The reason that I recommend disconnecting the electrical connector is because I know that many people use the Prodigy controller. According to the Prodigy manual you should unplug the TM from the TV when *TESTING* the breakaway brake switch. According to the manual this will permanently destroy the Prodigy controller. I still had the electrical cable connected. If I had the Prodigy I might have toasted it. However, I bought the Odyssey, anticipating that some day my kids would accidentally manage to do what I did yesterday and fry the Prodigy. Perhaps my choice of the Odyssey just saved me a hundred bucks.

I have never heard of anyone actually damaging the Prodigy controller by doing what I did. I'm just going by what the book says. I can testify that the Odyssey controller appears to be working fine.

So, you might wonder, how did this happen.

Midway through my procedure of disconnecting the TM I stopped to gossip with a neighbor. I resume where I had left off, but skipped one step, chocking the TM wheels. I wasn’t working from a checklist, just going from memory.

Lesson learned. I'll never make that one again.

At least no harm or damage occurred and I can laugh at myself. My wife and kids are probably thinking it has something to do with my heritage, Polish Oakie. Or as my brother would say, a Pollie-Oakie.

PopBeavers

09-23-2005, 08:30 PM