Colossal Mistake

[Factor]

I built a quanset hut to store my 24 foot Princecraft Sportfisher Pontoon and 3023 TM. Unfortunately, we had a foot of heavy snow and the building collapsed. I will re-build it stronger and better. Unknown extent of damage. 3023 survived as the side of the hut only touched the air conditioner. Not sure if any damage. The pontoon was higher and has damage, extent will be known in spring. I will have to partially dismantle the hut to get the vehicles out. In the meantime I jacked up the centre and put several 4 X 4 posts to hold it. Also removed the snow from the top of the hut. I am posting this for others to learn from my colossal mistake. Fortunately both vehicles are insured.
John

2003 Montana AWD
2004 3023

[Factor]

Note the air conditioner unit. It is tipped a bit, but, maybe no damage. Nest time, I will submit smaller pictures.
John

[Larry_Loo]

John, was this a commercial model of a quonset hut that you purchased and then erected?

I'm sorry that you suffered a loss. It may, however, be some consolation to you that the snow didn't collapse the roof of your home - with your family inside of it. Trailers and boats are replaceable but people aren't.

Our winters in this part of Central California are snowless. One April, about 3 years ago though, we had a deluge of pea sized hailstones in a short period of time. The 5 to 6 inch layer of hailstones accumulating on one of our aluminum patio roofs collapsed it. It was fortunate that no one was under the roof at that time, and, our insurance paid for most of a new roof.

[B_and_D]

I never would have imagined that a quonset hut would collapse from snow. Our neighbors have an old one, and it looks like it would sustain just about any kind of rain, wind, snow, etc. It's a good thing that you have insurance. Looks like your TM is mostly OK, but sorry to hear about your boat (and the quonset hut!).

[Factor]

Actually I erected it myself. It was a granary from Manitoba that was taken apart and resold. I put it on a 4' treated lumber pony wall. Obviously it didn't have enough support. It was 11'6" high at the centre. The unit was 30' long and 19'6" wide. The top consisted of several 10' long X 2 1/2' pieces. It took 650 bolts and nuts to put it together. My 8' pontoon and camper fit nicely with room to walk between them. I was going to finish it off in the spring. I guess I'm still going to finish it off in the spring.
John
2003 Montana AWD
2004 3023

[armistjb]

John:

Sorry to read about your misfortune, especially considering the work you put into it, and with those great recreational vehicles inside.

Hopefully 2005 will better.

John

[Factor]

I spent the last three days removing the pontoon and camper from the collapsed quonset hut. Even though the air conditioning unit was tipped about 1/2", once I raised it off the camper, it went back to its position. Doesn't seems to be any damage to the camper. Have to wait and see. Unfortunately the Pontoon Boat, which was much high than the camper because it was on the bunk trailer, didn't fare so well. Lots of damage, in excess of $5,000.00. It will be taken for repairs early in March so as to have it back for the season.
John, Atikokan, Ontario

2004 3023 TM
2003 Montana AWD

[Bill]

John -

Good news on the TM, at least.

As I recall, the air conditioner unit sits on some sort of kinda-flexible sealing material inside the mounting frame. If you get a chance, you might want to lift the A/C a couple inches - just enough so you can peek inside the frame and see if the seal has properly rebounded where it was squashed down for so long. Or alternatively just run a garden hose on it to approximate a heavy rain - and make sure it doesn't leak. If there should be a problem, you'd rather discover it in your yard than in a campsite miles from home.

Bill

[Factor]

Removed the Pontoon and TM - Doesn't seem to be any damage to TM, but, Pontoon Boat took the brunt, $11,400 damage. Insurance $1,000 deductible.
John
Atikokan, Ontario (the Canoeing Capital of Canada)
2003 Montana AWD
2004 3023 TM

[Windbreaker]

Try this, the $1K is deductable from the structure but I'm sure you have the contents of the structure insured also up to some limit. Now add on what was offered under the policy on the boat. Bet you make out ok.

[Factor]

No, the $1,000 is for the Pontoon Boat. The Quonset was not covered, due to a clause that includes snow load.
John
2003 Montana AWD
2004 TM 3023

[Giftpony]

This is probably obvious to the engineers among us, but I'm guessing that the 4 foot treated wall was the culprit. It may have walked out a bit at the snow load and that changes the load dynamics on the metal from a true 1/2 circle load carry to more of an oval...thus leading to the center loads increasing and the collapse.
Cinderblock, or something that would stop translating those loads sideways and begin putting them downward into the floor may make the difference, if you chose to rebuild the same.
This may also be a thought for the rest of us that are looking at ways to fulltime protect our TMs. Thanks for being willing to share your pain....here's to good times camping!
Rd

[Factor]

You are right, in hindssight there were many things I could have done to avoid this. The outward pressure on the 4' pony wall caused it to collapse outward. Fortunately for the TM, it was the wall beside the Pontoon, thus the Pontoon suffered the damage, not the TM. It tore the braces off the pony wall, tremendous pressure. If I rebuild it, I'll make sure it is absiolutely solid.
Maybe I build a garage instead, who knows. Not this year though.
John
2003 Montana AWD
2004 TM 3023

[Factor]

The saga continues. I brought my TM home yesterday and got out my step ladder to have a better look at the air conditioner. Imagine my surprise, when I saw a hole about 1 1/2 in diameter on the top of the air conditioner cover. One of the quonset hut bolts came down through the top. Also, noted the caulking was broken along the left side of the bottom moulding that attaches to the TM. I re-caulked this area and covered the hole temporarily to keep out the rain. The air conditioner seems to work fine, so now I have to decide whether to replace the cover. Actually you can't see it unless you get a step ladder as I did.

The Pontoon was different as I indicated - $11,400.00 damage which the insurance company with cover, minus the $1,000.00 deductible. Should have that back in later May just in time for walleye season.

I hope I have not been boring everybody with this.

John, Atikokan, Ontario (the Canoeing Capital of Canada)
2003 Montana AWD
2004 TM 3023

[Factor]

We have had the TM set up in the yard for the past few days. On closer inspection, the TM must have groaned when the quonset hut fell on it. As mentioned, I thought the Pontoon saved the TM, but, there is some damage. I already mentioned the air conditioner, however, it rained today and there is a leak from the air vent closest to the air conditioner The other vent cover is cracked a bit also. The top of the rear rear shell has a two+ foot mark with three indentations. This mark and indentations line up perfectly with the inside molding on the left side of the air conditioner. It appears that the jolt to the AC pressed down that shell on the inside (rear)one.
Also, when I opened the doors to the area below the sink, I noticed some black debris. The styrofoam around the hot water tank is cracked (a line down the front where the styrofam split causing a hairline crack).
All of this doesn't seem major, but, to fix would probably necessitate a trip to the factory. I think the $500 deductible might be a good investment.
John, Atikokan, Ontario (the Canoeing Capital of Canada)
2004 TM 3023
2003 Montana AWD

[Factor]

The verdict is in! The 3023 is a write off. Damage to the roofs, which incidently has no effect on the operation of the camper, plus other items has exceeded the purchase price. I have full replacement insurance, so the insurance company will pay me out. It's unfortunate, as the camper still looks new. You can't see the damage unless you get a step stool and look at the roofs. The damage is a groove in the back roof caused by the impact of the molding around the air conditioner. The front has a concave channel running from the air conditioner to the each of the vents. As I say, it does not compromise the operation of the camper, but, for trade in or re-sell it does.

We are not sure if we will replace it with a TM, may look at the hi-Lo.
We still have the camper, until the insurance company contacts us. We spent all last week camping.

John
2004 3023 TM
2003 Montana AWD

[Windbreaker]

Many times they will allow you to buy it back for $500 or so. Try that!

[BOB_STRONG]

John,

You said you were going to look at the Hi-lo trailers. They too are a nice unit, but look at the tongue weight & overall weight of the unit. The Hi-los come in the Towlite or Classic models. The Classic models are more expensice than the Towlite since they are fancier.

We looked at them back in 1994 before buying the 3326King, but the heavy weight & the tongue weight discouraged us. Just a thought.

[Factor]

it's official now, the 3023 is a write off. The insurance company will now either replace the 3023 or put the amount we paid for it towards another purchase. They are now trying to sell it to make up the difference, about $10,000 Canadian. Actually it would be a good buy - the roof damage doesn't impact on its use. An air conditioner cover, front and rear awnings and a few other minor items would put it to excellent use. To look at it, one would not know the damage. It on the roof. Not punctures, but a crease on the front and rear shell.

[Factor]

We will be leaving the forum as we purchased a 2505C Hi-Lo to replace our 3023TM. I must say that this is an excellent forum. I learned a lot from it.
John

[B_and_D]

Happy trails to you and your new HiLo! I hope you like it and have a lot of great camping trips in it.

Dee

[Factor]

I just wanted to say that even though we purchaed a Hi-Lo, I still check this site as it has a lot of useful info.
John

[2bcs1jrt]

Out of curiosity, how do they compare?

[Factor]

Ok, here's the comparison between TM 3023 and Hi-Lo 2505C

Width TM 91" Hi-Lo 100"
The Hi-Lo has a tip out sofa. The width comparison makes the Hi-Lo super roomy. We felt cramped in the TM.

Beds
The TM can comfortably sleep more. Our 3023 had a queen and a double bed and the sofa pulled out to a small bed.
Our Hi-Lo's dinette converts to a double bed, there is a bunk bed that comes down and the sofa pulls out to a small bed. We would rather have the bigger Hi-Lo, but is heavier.

Weight
Out Hi-Lo is at least a 1000 lbs. heavier, so I have to purchase a vehicle that can tow more. Our Montana AWD doesn't have the towing capacity. Weight is a big advantage for the TM.

Bathroom
Our Hi-lo has a big bathroom at the rear of the Hi-Lo, much more that the TM

Kitchen Counter
A full 8' in the Hi-Lo

Storage
We liked the rear storage in the TM, it could hold two lawn chairs. No storage like this in our Hi-Lo

Tongue
The Hi-Lo tongue is powered.

Ease of set up
Just push a button and the Hi-Lo is raised quickly. The Sofa is also powered out.

Quality
Both are excellent

Air Conditioner
In the Hi-Lo the air must be plugged in and out, no on/off switch. apparantly because of the raising and lowering, it can't be wired permanently.

Refrigerator
Bigger in the Hi-Lo, the top also gives additional space.

Tires
15" in both, but tandem in the Hi-Lo

Towing
I towed the TM without an equalizer hitch, alsolutely need one towing the Hi-Lo.. Both tow easy. Need good wide mirrors for the Hi-Lo, it's 100" wide.

Stabilizing Jacks
Both about the same. The Hi-Lo's wrench was better.
In the pinch, the TM's jacks could lift the TM off the ground, this isn't recommended for the Hi-Lo.

Price
We paid the same for each TT, both were purchased in Wisconsin. These TT are more expensive that regular campers of the same size.

Anyway, we are happier with the Hi-Lo. The TM is an excellent TT, it just depends on the use and what you are happy with.

Windows
The TM's windows were too high to see out comfortably. My wife brought a stool so she could see out. This was a big complaint.

Forum
Both have good forums for questions.

John
2505C Hi-Lo formerly 3023 TM

[2bcs1jrt]

Thanks for the feedback. Doesn't sound like one out shines the other by much. It sounds like you have to build your bed each night like we did in our tent trailer. I definately don't miss those days of "it's a bed/ it's a dinette". But a push button raise and lower sounds great!
Cheri

[hhoenig]

John,
Interesting comparison. I was searching for a forum for Hi-Lo, no luck. How can I get to it? Other than size how does the bathroom compare to the TM?
Good luck with the new trailer.
Henry

[Factor]

It's http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/hilotrailers/

You might have to join the Yahoo Group to access the site.

John