Refilling 1lb LP cylinders.....

[Happytrails]

I bought a thingy to refill my 1lb cylinders off of the 20lb tanks and going by the directions, (Keeping them chilled in the freezer and filling for *exactly* one minute), the refilled cylinder only lasted about 30 mins in my buddy heater as opposed to 4.5 hours from a new one. Am I doing something wrong? Should I go longer than one minute? When refilling, it seemed like most of the gas went in for a few seconds only, then the rest of the time I didn't hear anything really. The 20lb tank was full btw.......anyone with any thoughts?


Happytrails.........

[tipper]

You may have air in the canister.
The green propane canister is not designed to be refilled.

[BOB_STRONG]

Bill:

I buy Coleman 16 oz propane bottles for my lanterns and coleman propane cooking stove. On the label it says" NEVER refill this cylinder. Then, it has a warning that says"Federal law forbids transportation if refilled. Penalty up to $25,000.00 fine and 5 years imprisonment. (49 U.S.C.1809). You might want to check out the fine print on your bottles that you buy. I would hate to see a fellow Trailmanor owner end up in jail. Maybe I am too cautious!!  Anxiously waiting to see what you find on your bottles ??? ???

BOB STRONG

[Paul_Heuvelhorst]

You can't do it that way. Once the pressures in each cylinder equalize you won't get flow. You need to pump it.

The small adapter being sold fills the 1lb or 2lb. tanks with gaseous LPG only, unless you can invert the large tank. The OPD valve will probably prevent any flow of LP. Then you'd need the scales to prevent overfilling and blowing the overpressure safety valve. The final analysis is; It's not worth the effort and risk. Spend the $1.67 at Wal*Mart and buy a new 1# or 2# cylinder.

This information is a compilation of a similar question asked and answered on iRV2.com bulletin board

[KB7OUR]

As I understand it, refilling the 1lb propane containers jeopardizes the seal integrity, giving you a potential 1lb bomb if you have a spark. They are so inexpensive these days I can't imagine they are even worth refilling. I just bought a 5lb OPD unit that is nice and portable. Plan to set it outside the TM and run a 5' hose up thru the flap to a portable Heater Buddy. Unfortunately, the 5lb tanks are as much or more than the 20lb ones.

Wade

[Happytrails]

The 1lb cylinders I use do have that warning on them, but I'm not planning on transporting them anyway. I have a 12' hose that will connect to the 20lb bottle, but for some reason, I think that setup leaks as I always smell propane. (Mainly at the tank) I get NO smell off the 1lb bottles. I was thinking of just for using in the house down in my basement for my heater buddy. Camping, the bottle would be outside (20lb) so it wouldn't be an issue. I've tried teflon tape and everything, I think it's the connecter that goes into the 20lb bottle. Since my thermostat is upstairs, it gets cold down in the basement where we mainly stay unless we roast the whole upstairs.......


Happytrails.......

[tipper]

should be filed under famous last words

[DancinCampers]

Hi all,

I have been re-filling my small cylinders for about 15 years with out any problems.  I use them for my propane torch attachment & in the wintertime I use a small catalytic heater in my den.

I have only had one bottle leak after filling.  The bottles use a schrader valve, similar to the ones in tires.  I just screwed on my torch attachment, which has an additional cork gasket.  When the bottle was used up I threw it away.

I cool the bottles in the freezer before filling, & the large bottle I use must be upside down when filling, so that you are transferring liquid & not gas.

I'm pretty sure that if you left the large bottle upside down overnight, then the small bottle would fill almost completely, since the liquid will seek the lowest point, like water does.  But I would not recommend this since you would then be filling the smaller bottle above the 80 percent level.

After filling I always check for leaks with soapy water, & don't store them in direct sunlight or hot places.

I haven't had to re-fill any lately, so don't know if the newer bottles with OPD will work, but since they have a float inside, my intuition is that with the bottle inverterd the float would rise, & allow refilling until it fell to a level which would close the valve.

My thoughts only.

Dan

[DancinCampers]

I've tried teflon tape and everything, I think it's the connecter that goes into the 20lb bottle.
Happytrails.......
Hi Happy,

Does your connector have an O-ring or is it just a brass flare fitting?

If it doesn't have an O-ring, what I have done in the past is use teflon tape on the flare portion of the fitting.  These are supposed to provide a tight seal, but over time can become dinged & leak.

Mix a small amout of water & liquid dishwashing soap, apply liberally & look for bubbles.

Dan

[HoMiPa]

I was about to start a new thread on this, but did a search first, and found this thread.

Although I completely understand the idea that filling the 1lb bottles could be potentially dangerous, I have a question of those that make the comment about how cheap they are - just toss and buy new ones. Can you just toss them? In my town, we aren't allowed. Well, we are allowed, but it requires a $10 fee for each and every 1lb bottle you turn in at the town dump. $10 PER BOTTLE. So that cheap bottle of propane, isn't quite so cheap anymore.

I was looking at this article.... http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-completely-refill-a-1lb-disposable-propan/

Any thoughts?

[ShrimpBurrito]

For me, one of the core problems with refilling disposable 1-lb propane tanks is that they are built to be disposable. Especially the fill and air valves. One time I was using such a tank (never refilled), and when I removed the appliance, the fill valve did not close and so propane leaked out. I could not get it to stop, so I just put it in an open area and let all of the gas leak out. Lovely.

Fortunately, though, I was outside, and I noticed it. Imagine if it were in your car, and you didn't notice it. Unpleasant, indeed. I just think that the more one uses those valves, whether it be to continually connect/disconnect the bottles or to refill them, the components of the valve will weaken and eventually fail. I know there will be countless numbers of people that can say they've been refilling the tanks like this for years and have never had a problem. I believe them. But the risk of failure, in my mind, is just not worth the risk.

I don't use 1-lb disposable containers anymore, except for the occasion I use a torch. For camping, I use a 5-lb refillable cylinder for my portable grill and stove. It holds about a gallon, and so it costs me about $3 to fill it, and that's probably the price (at least) of one 1-lb disposable.

No more landfill waste, no dangerous refilling, no disposable valves, and I'm saving money to boot!

Dave

[Shane826]

Pics of the 5lb bottle? Does it hook right to the grill or do you need a hose? Where did you get it?

Edit: Nevermind. Just looked on Amazon. They ain’t cheap, nor do they look all too convenient. I still want to figure out a way to plumb a quick disconnect into my TM’s propane system.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I have this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Worthington-281149-1-Gallon-Cylinder-Prevention/dp/B000SKX63U

I mounted it on the tongue of the TM. See:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=57285&postcount=21

It goes wherever the TM goes. I never think about it. Yes, it's $50, but you'll make that up quickly by not buying disposables. I had thought about teeing into the TM's propane system, but:

a) the low pressure of the TM system and the high pressure requirement of most grills/stoves needs to be addressed. Doable, but requires some effort.

b) most importantly, I didn't want to cook within a few feet of the TM. I wanted to be over by the picnic table and/or firepit, where everyone else is also hanging out. Since we camp in primitive areas, that might be 30-50 feet from the TM.

Dave

[HoMiPa]

I have this one:


I mounted it on the tongue of the TM. See:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=57285&postcount=21

Well that's just adorable! LOL




a) the low pressure of the TM system and the high pressure requirement of most grills/stoves needs to be addressed. Doable, but requires some effort.

So is it the tank fittings that determine the pressure of the propane dispersal? I didn't realize there was a difference in what systems require, although I suppose if I had any reason to ever ponder it, I would have eventually come to the conclusion that there would be differences.

I believe that might be a solution for me, actually. It certainly seems much easier than refilling the #1 bottles. However, unlike the #20 bottles, which I can just turn in at a station and swap out with a new bottle, purchasing the #5 bottle means eventually it will have to be re-certified. How much does that usually cost?

[commodor47]

Holly,

The propane tanks on our unit (SL) are horizontal and cannot be conveniently swapped out.

I've had both my OEM propane tanks re-certified within the past two years at our local propane company store (in my case AmeriGas). You don't need to be a customer to have your tank certified. Each time it cost $25 including filling the tank. The certification is good for 5 years. They basically do a visual check for rusted fixture connections with the tank body and the base support ring. The test also includes a pressure test, looking for a defective valve assembly. I periodically remove any rust, prime and paint the tanks before bringing them in for certification or as needed. I am not sure how much they would charge to re-certify a 5 pound tank.

Dick

[ShrimpBurrito]

How much does that usually cost?

Good question. I've had for 9 years, and I either don't remember ever having to do the recert yet, or it was so cheap (or free) that I found it unremarkable.

For the larger tanks, my experience with recerts has been similar to Dick's. Either included in the price of a refill (usually the case), or maybe a $10 charge.

According to this Amerigas website:
https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-blog/2017/march/how-to-recertify-your-propane-tank

...initial certifications are good for 12 years from the date of manufacture, and then must be renewed every 5 years thereafter.

It would be the slightest thing from my mind if I were considering doing this. Worst case scenario is you discard and replace the tank for $50.....so, a recert should be significantly cheaper than that, whenever it is required.

Dave

[HoMiPa]

You don't need to be a customer to have your tank certified. Each time it cost $25 including filling the tank.

Thanks for that info. I may be incorrect, but I'm guessing at least half of that $25 is for the propane refill. Perhaps $15 would be a reasonable cost for a #5 tank, and if only required every 5 years, would be worth it instead of using all those 'disposable' #1 bottles.

[tentcamper]

I think it is every 10 years you need to do a re-cert. My 20 lb tanks I exchanged when it was time to re-cert. Got some 2017 tanks in exchange and then went back to refilling the tanks at $12 per 4.5 gl/ 20 lbs after the 15 lb ran out.

I thought about the 1.2 gl/5 lb tank, but the re-cert has been my concern. I got a y connector for my 20 lb tank on the TM and a 20 ft hose with a 1 lb adaptor. But a few years back. I realized I only use about 4 - 1 lb tanks a year. I get them 2 for $6, so I stopped using the y connector and hose.

[HoMiPa]

But a few years back I realized I only use about 4 - 1 lb tanks a year. I get them 2 for $6, so I stopped using the y connector and hose.

The cost of the #1 isn't the problem - it's the $10 charge to dispose of them. I think the #5 tank is the perfect answer - and probably way easier to cart around, even full, than the #20 tanks. They are awkward as all get out to carry, and seem way heavier than #20. I'd rather carry the #50 of dog food up to the house from the garage 10 times a day, than carry the darn #20 propane tank once in a season. LOL

[tentcamper]

Had never hear of the disposal fee for the 1 lb bottles. Maybe we are getting rid of them the wrong way??? If I need to pay a disposal fee,I will go back to the 20 lb tank on the tongue of the camper with a y connector and 20 foot hose.

[Larryjb]

We don't have a disposal fee either, but I'm pretty sure we pay in our taxes.

[tentcamper]

Yep we pay for a lot of things in our taxes that we don't even know where it goes.

[HoMiPa]

There was never a disposal fee when I lived in VA, but then it was a city, with trash pick up. The garbage trucks took everything to a large facility, where the trash was transferred onto a large conveyor belt, where people literally broke open trash bags, sorted through stuff, and took all the 'hazardous' stuff out - such as 1lb propane bottles. I remember the time they found a baby....

Anyway, in my small town here in NH, we take our trash to our town dump, where we put trash bags into a large compactor, and big, bulky items into a large dumpster (anything you put in the large dumpster you have to pay for), and metal trash is put into a area off to the side, and lawn/tree refuse is put in a large pile and burned occasionally.... you get the drift. We are very aware of every piece of garbage we take to the dump and where it has to go, based on what it is. The 1lb bottles can not go in the compactor, for fear of explosion upon compression, they have to be set aside, and collected, and then they are taken to a separate facility to be disposed of properly when our town facility has a good quantity of them. Same with paint cans, not just spray cans, but any sort of paint, stain, polyurethane, etc. Paint cans we aren't charged for, but we can't bring them to our town dump. We have to keep them ourselves, and take them to a nearby town's facility, on paint collection day - literally just one day per year. Miss it and you are holding onto that stuff for another year. We pay to dispose of anything potentially hazardous - any sort of electronics (tv, computer, monitor) - anywhere from $10/each item to $20/each item.

[Brittany Dogs]

I used to refill the one pounders but experienced about a 40% fall out rate where the valve would either leak after the refill or leak the first time I reused them. That was way too high for being safe, so I gave up. I did buy two five pound refillable tanks, perhaps two years apart. I remember paying $45 each and gosh, today they are twice that. Refilling is cheap but now both tanks need to be recertified and I don’t care to do that due to the short period the price buys you after the recertification. I have since added a quick disconnect valve and port to my high pressure side of my horizontal tanks and attach a 25 foot hose to it. The whole thing was purchased from a RV dealer and I installed it myself. The hose is usually long enough to run to the picnic table to run an outside grill.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I remember paying $45 each and gosh, today they are twice that. Refilling is cheap but now both tanks need to be recertified and I don’t care to do that due to the short period the price buys you after the recertification.

Odd. The one I bought that I linked to earlier is ~$46 at Amazon, free shipping:
https://www.amazon.com/Worthington-281149-1-Gallon-Cylinder-Prevention/dp/B000SKX63U

How much does it cost to recertify? Sounds like it should hover around $15, sometimes free (as it has been for me occasionally). And spread over the ~10 or so year certification period, that seems pretty cheap to me.

Dave

[Brittany Dogs]

i have seen new 5 pound tanks for $85 but with shopping around, one can probably do better. Recert tanks are only good for five years, usually need to be left at the propane dealer for at least a day, meaning two trips to the place, and I seem to remember them quoting $35 to do it which includes a fill up (big whoop). For my horizontal tanks, that is worth it but I felt that it is not for the five pound types. At least for me it doesn’t since I came up with an alternative method for a gas hook up if I need it.