PDA

View Full Version : New to Forum


APerkins
11-17-2004, 04:40 PM
Hi All,

Howdy All. Quick intro. Wife and I are considering a new 2005 3023 to pull behind our 2000 Toyota Tundra Limited 4x4 4.3L V8. We live in the pacific northwest and want to seem more of the US of A, especially the western states.

We have tons of camping gear, but have no experience with RV'ing or travel trailers. Most of the camping I've done is mountaineering, and some car camping. Fortunately, we'll be able to travel quite a bit. So we'll go out for a little while and come home, with each trip becoming progressively longer.

From all the great info on this forum, here is the info I've gathered so far:
Truck will require:
Brake Controller
Class III WD hitch rated @ 1000 lbs
Transmission Oil Cooler


Three questions:
Is a 3023 large enough for us (Wife, me, 80 lb Chessie) to go out for 2 weeks, a month, or more than a month?
Is there anything I should consider for the TM? More battery power, larger fresh water tank? Longer black or grey water dumping hose?
Any additional purchases for the truck? Better, wider mirrors perhaps?



Thanks,

Windbreaker
11-17-2004, 05:51 PM
Good questions all but a little more information is needed. In the past you boondocked it big time, will this continue? Or, are you making this move because you are getting older and prefer a little less active camping trip, like say - full hook-up camping in a trailer park?

A set of mirrors is a must, most states require that you be able to see to at least 200 feet behind your trailer.

If you doing the west your doing long steep climbs. I suggest a heavy duty radiator, and oil cooler as well. A jack for the trailer is a must. And I would suggest that you check out the list offered here and on other RV sites.

Have you check the weight rateing of your truck? Your 4.3 L motor will most likely be ok for most of your travels but when you buy a new truck you might consider a 5.0 L or larger for those higher elevations and long steep grades.

APerkins
11-17-2004, 08:16 PM
Some boondocking, but mostly wife and I will be RV'ing. If I go out climbing, kayaking, or mountain biking, the some boondocking might be in order.

The trailer jack is now on my list.

Not sure I want to do anything as far as radiator or oil cooler just yet. Will keep in mind, since I think that is pretty good advice.

APerkins
11-17-2004, 08:22 PM
Oh, and it's a 4.7L not a 4.3. Not like it makes THAT much of a difference. Towing capacity of a tundra is 7000, and my goal is to stay under half of that if at all possible. I don't want to strain my truck.

The simple fact that I could get one or more electrical appliances in my camping adventure, is awesome. I'm used to packing it in, packing it out. Wife won't go anymore unless she can have good coffee and a shower. Who can blame her, huh?

Thanks for your help BTW.

RockyMtnRay
11-18-2004, 08:59 AM
Oh, and it's a 4.7L not a 4.3. Not like it makes THAT much of a difference. Towing capacity of a tundra is 7000, and my goal is to stay under half of that if at all possible. I don't want to strain my truck.


You will find the Tundra does very well as a tow vehicle for any TrailManor, particularly for towing near sea level. Your decision to stay around half of the factory's incredibly optimistic tow rating is quite wise. Reason: the factory tow rating is determined by subtracting the weight of a bare bones, no options, no gas, no cargo, no passengers truck from the Gross Combined Weight Rating (11,800 lbs). If you subtract the weight of typically optioned, loaded for camping 4X4 Tundra with passengers, gas, and cargo, the real tow rating is more like 6000 lbs. Similarly, TrailManor lists the empty, no options weight of their trailers. Add in typical options and a load of food, supplies, water, etc. and a 3023 will weigh more like 4500 to 4800 lbs. So your real world margin between GCWR limits and rig weight is actually only about 1200 to 1500 lbs...still plenty but not nearly as big as the so called ratings would have led you to believe.

I have an '03 Tundra Access Cab SR5 4X4 and bought it specifically to be the tow vehicle for my '02 27202SL TM. Stock, it did fairly well at my very high altitudes (from 6000 to 12000 feet above sea level)...revved up in 2nd gear I could readily stay with traffic even on 7% grades. However, I have done a few mods for even more power and less transmission shifting; specifically JBA exhaust headers, a Gibson muffler, and now a regearing to 4.30 gears...and it now will outperform just about any other truck (even a Dodge Hemi :) ) when I go into the mountains with my TM in tow. :D

Since it appears you do not have the factory towing package on yours, yes there are a few things you will need (but a heavy duty radiator is NOT needed (or even available)...the stock factory radiator provides plenty of engine cooling...and the engine also has a good engine oil cooler). Specifically:

An auxilliary transmission cooler. This is a mandatory item to insure good towing life with the '00 Tundra transmission. Get a "stacked plate" design; the best are the Tru Cool Brand (http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=MDITP&Category_Code=Coolers). Do not buy the OEM Toyota one...it's too small and not particularly effective. My Tundra (with factory towing package) came equipped with the OEM cooler; I'm replacing it before the next towing season with a Tru Cool cooler (probably one with a fan).
1000 lb Class III/IV hitch receiver. The OEM towing package hitch is good though pricey; any of the quality aftermarket hitches will work well. The factory hitch is sometimes available on eBay for a very good price.
Weight Distributing Hitch (WDH) with at least 750 lb or 1000 lb spring bars. The Tundra rear suspension was designed more for comfort than for heavy duty weight carrying. The hitch weight of a 3023 TM (around 550 to 600 lbs) will induce a great deal of rear sag/front lift if you do not use a WDH. A sway control device is not needed and not advised...if you use a WDH to insure the truck is level with the trailer attached, the Tundra has more than enough wheelbase and steering control to prevent sway from a naturally sway resistant trailer like a TrailManor.
Brake Controller and wiring for the brake controller and 12 V supply line to the trailer. Even though your truck did not have the factory towing package, it may very well have the taillight converter (turns 3 bulb system (brake and turn separate) into a 2 bulb system (brake and turn together) and all you will need is a connector to plug into it. If you become a paid member of the TundraSolutions Club (http://www.tundrasolutions.com), you can have access to wiring diagrams and a detailed "how to" in the club "Garage" section for installing a brake controller on your truck.
Towing mirrors. The Tundra is not truly a full size truck...it's about 5 inches narrower than Ford 150s, Dodge Rams, etc. You will therefore need supplemental towing mirrors...by far the best are those made by McKesh (http://www.nosway.com/mckeshmirrors.html). Although rather pricey, McKesh mirrors have no vibration whatsoever and they work very well on the Tundra doors. Aftermarket replacement mirrors that electrically extend are not available for Tundras...this is a fairly low volume truck (~100K units per year) and not often used for heavy duty towing so the Aftermarket manufacturers have not produced many Tundra offerings.


When towing a sizable trailer like a TM with a Tundra it's extremely important to always do so with Overdrive turned OFF. The front planetary gearset (used when the transmission is in Overdrive) is a known weak area of the '00 - '02 Tundras.

Another item that greatly improves a Tundra's towing capability is to mount Light Truck (LT) series tires instead of Passenger (P) series tires. LT series tires have much stiffer sidewalls than P series tires...this greatly reduces the side-side sway of the rear of the truck when towing. If you are near time for tire replacement, I can heartily recommend using Michelin LTX M/S tires in the 265/75R16 size...these tires have excellent grip, excellent road manners when towing and extremely long life (at least 75 thousand miles).

BTW, I am the Towing Moderator at TundraSolutions as well as one of the moderators of both the Engine/DriveTrain and Handling/Suspension/Brakes forums on that website. There is a great deal of information available about improving your Tundra's performance and lifetime. Feel free to ask me any questions about using a Tundra as a tow vehicle.

As for modifying the trailer for boondock camping, I'm probably "Mr Boondocker" around here...90% of my camping is in no-hookups campgrounds. Accordingly I have equipped my TM with solar panels as well as dual 6V Golf cart batteries. Will be happy to answer any specific questions about how to optimize things for boondock camping.

Bill
11-18-2004, 09:12 AM
I think you'll be pleased with the combo. Your Tundra has the same engine size and tow rating as my Explorer - the one difference being that I have the factory tow package which includes a 5-speed automatic and a 3.73 rear end. As others have said, a truck of this size is sufficient for travelling in the mountainous west, but doesn't have a whole lot of margin. Be prepared to take your time and to be passed by other vehicles at high altitudes - high Sierras, and the Colorado Rockies. The altitude is the killer, more than the grade.

I, too, keep my TM to less than half of the tow rating. By the way, this is harder to do than it would seem. The mfr's stated weight of a travel trailer (ANY travel trailer) does NOT reflect what the trailer will weigh once you have added all the factory options plus all your stuff, including food, water, propane, clothes, tools, etc. When you are ready for the road, you will probably be well over 3500 pounds. You might consider having the rig weighed, just to be sure.

As for comfort on an extended trip, my wife and I spent 30 days touring chunks of the west in our 2720SL with a small dog and a big cat. It was pretty good, but at the end of 30 days we were glad to get home. A 3023 should be better.

Bill

CC_Turtle
11-18-2004, 03:19 PM
Hi,

I just upgraded my tacoma to a tundra and what a difference! you will be happy with the tundra's towing abilities.

Teresa

APerkins
11-18-2004, 09:07 PM
[QUOTE=RockyMtnRay]...and it now will outperform just about any other truck (even a Dodge Hemi :) ) when I go into the mountains with my TM in tow. :D/[QUOTE]

Not anything much better than a rice burner eatin' up American Iron. :)

RockyMtnRay
11-19-2004, 09:41 AM
Not anything much better than a rice burner eatin' up American Iron.

Hee hee...yes indeed. Three occasions come to mind...

1. Eastbound on I70 on the 8 mile, steady 7% grade climb up to the Eisenhower tunnels under the Continental Divide. Starting elevation on this grade is 8700 feet, ending elevation at the tunnel entrance is 11,150 feet. At the beginning of the grade a Hemi powered Ram roars past me at about 80 mph with a single axle utility trailer in tow. I'm doing the speed limit...60 mph. 5 miles up the grade at about 10,000 feet, Mr. Hemi Ram is down to 45 mph. The Tundra with TM in tow is still happily climbing at 60 mph. I wave "buh-bye" as I blast past him. His reaction: :eek2:

2. Eastbound again on I70, this time coming up the notorious Floyd Hill east of Idaho Springs. 2 mile long, 6 to 7 percent grade with a sharp 50 mph curve at the bottom so it's hard to get any momentum going into the grade. Thankfully it's 3 lanes going up cause I'm over in the left lane within half a mile with the speed steadily rising to about 65 mph by the top. Halfway up I overtake a brand new Ford 150 pulling an itty-bitty little Coleman popup and barely doing 40 mph. The driver of the Ford is so amazed that a Toyota pulling a much bigger trailer is overtaking him so fast that he literally hangs his head out the window with his mouth wide open! :new_shock I just gave him a ear to ear grin and stuck my nose in the air.

3. Westbound I70, this time a couple of miles below the east entrance to the Eisenhower Tunnels at about 10,100 feet. Speed limit is 65, the grade is between 5 and 6 percent, and I'm running heavy with a full load of food and water in the TM...plus a lot of cargo on the truck including a kayak and my bicycle. Nonetheless, I'm still easily holding 65 to 70 mph, most of the time in 3rd gear. Overtake a Chevy Suburban...loaded but without any trailer in tow...that's clearly struggling to maintain 60 mph. The Suburban's driver's expression was priceless as he watches my rice burner...with sizeable trailer in tow...leave him in the dust. :D

As you may be gathering, Bill's comment above about being prepared to be passed by other vehicles at high altitudes just doesn't apply to the Tundra. In fact, you should be prepared to be the one doing the passing. :new_evil: Stock, that required simply being willing to let that wonderful 32 valve engine rev around 4600 RPM in 2nd gear (which I'm sure you realize it loves to do). After I installed the headers and free-er flowing muffler, I could more often than not stay in 3rd gear at around 3000 RPM on these high altitude grades. This week my Tundra's differentials are being regeared (from the stock 3.91 ratio to 4.30). That will do two things...a direct 10% gain in torque at the wheels and move the engine's peak torque RPM right into my preferred towing speeds (65 to 70 mph) which will provide yet another 10 to 15 percent gain in usable torque at the wheels. I'm expecting to now be able to stay in 3rd (direct drive) and easily achieve the speed limit on all but the toughest, highest climbs.

tomnet
11-28-2004, 04:33 PM
Well, that was actually pretty exciting - what guy doesn't like the
prospect of blowing off the competition at 12,000 feet. Must have
been a thrill for the Spitfire and Mustang pilots facing their ME-109
enemies at 30,000+ ft in models with their reduction gearing, props,
boost, etc. all dialed in - for bigger stakes though. Excuse the digress
but what about super or turbo boost as then one may be able to
run at lower RPM where the stock Tundra exhaust manifold, muffler
would suffice. Just a thought.
Tom

Just starting to look at TM's for my 2003 Tundra (Stepside) and thinking
about skiing.

RockyMtnRay
11-28-2004, 10:38 PM
Well, that was actually pretty exciting - what guy doesn't like the
prospect of blowing off the competition at 12,000 feet. Must have
been a thrill for the Spitfire and Mustang pilots facing their ME-109
enemies at 30,000+ ft in models with their reduction gearing, props,
boost, etc. all dialed in - for bigger stakes though. Excuse the digress
but what about super or turbo boost as then one may be able to
run at lower RPM where the stock Tundra exhaust manifold, muffler
would suffice. Just a thought.
Tom

Just starting to look at TM's for my 2003 Tundra (Stepside) and thinking
about skiing.
Yay..another Tundra owner!

Glad you enjoyed my tales of conquest when towing a TM at flying altitudes. :D

Now, as for turbocharging or supercharging the Tundra engine. It's possible but you've to be extermely careful about doing it when the goal is increased towing power. The problem is towing demands boost durations measured in minutes (or hours) whereas a short blast of acceleration has boost time that's less than 10 to 15 seconds.

Firstly, totally and absolutely forget the TRD (Eaton) supercharger that used to be available through Toyota dealers and was warranted by Toyota if dealer installed. For one thing, TRD no longer sells these...probably because semi-confirmed rumor has it that Toyota was eating a heckuva lot of warranty claims for engines where the pistons and/or connecting rods had made an explosive exit through the side of the block. :eek: For another, this unit had no real intercooling...it used extra fuel injectors in the supercharger housing to spray fuel into the plenum in a not very successful attempt to reduce inlet air temperatures. Most of the time this worked for very short periods (under 10 seconds) to keep the engine from experiencing catastrophic detonation (the cause of those grenading pistons and C-rods) but not always.

There are two aftermarket forced air units available for Tundras...one is a strange turbocharger made by Squires Turbo System (STS) (http://www.ststurbo.com/tundra_4_7l_kits) and the other is a centrifugal supercharger from Speed of Sound (SOS) (http://www.sosperf.com/SOS%20Superchargers.htm). Both run around $4000 (plus installation...around another $500 to $1000), both will likely totally kill your engine and drivetrain warranty, and neither has much in the way of solid documented user experience at TundraSolutions (http://www.Tundrasolutions.com).

The STS turbo is very weird because it is waaaay downstream (actually under the truck) where the exhaust gasses have cooled enough to lose a lot (most) of their heat energy. Worse, its air intake is also under the truck where it will suck up all kinds of water and muck through the not-so-great K&N filter. I personally would not touch this system with a 10 foot pole.

The SOS Supercharger looks promising to me...it's properly intercooled and seems to have the right components. But AFAIK, no one has yet to install one and provide a detailed report back to the rest of us at TundraSolutions. But if I were to choose a supercharger and had no worries about being needing to pay for an engine and/or tranny replacement out of my pocket (about $8000 and $3000 respectively), this would be the one I'd go with. Potentially very good performance gains but also with potentially very high risk of engine/transmission damage.

In the meantime, the proven (and very low risk) mods that I have done...headers, low restriction muffler, and changing to 4.30 gears...have given me about the same usable torque increases (~25%) as I would have gotten from the very high risk forced induction solutions. Furthermore, I've gotten those gains for about $2000 less than any of the forced induction solutions would have cost if installation is figured in.

And there is still one more fairly low risk performance enhancement (a Unichip piggyback ECU) that I could install. The Unichip (http://www.unichip.us/) gets its performance gains (roughly 7 to 10%) by running the engine on much more aggressive timing maps and a much leaner (12:1 Fuel/Air instead of 10.5:1 F/A) fuel mix when the engine is in open-loop conditions (i.e. no feedback from the O2 sensors). Essentially the Unichip is getting these gains by cutting into the big safety margin that Toyota programmed into the stock ECU. One TundraSolutions member who does serious towing with a Tundra recently installed a Unichip...if he has no problems in this coming summer's towing season I may also put a Unichip in my Tundra. However, I'm also going to have to assess whether or not I really need to spend yet another $900 or so...it may be that the exhaust mods and regearing have already given me enough oomph for a great towing experience at flying altitudes. :D But then, I really hate to leave more power just laying on the table. :new_evil:

tomnet
11-30-2004, 01:09 AM
First, it seems a shame to truncate your very entertaining post, so
leaving it below for reference, let me say it's obvious that forced air
has occurred to you, too. Look, I'm not interested in blasting away
for hours at a time. I don't even want to run over 60 mph - I'd just like
to recreate 14.7 lbs. per inch and let those 32 valves do their thing -
is that asking too much of a well balanced motor? Why would pistons
want to fly while running under the rev limiter? There is one, no? I'm
not trying to re-create hell on earth inside those 8 chambers, just
the normal, well radiated burn pattern registered with the Calif.
AQMD (smog police) at sea level here in Calif. (or is it done in
Indiana?). Well, maybe a wee bit more, to keep up with those 49-state
TV's.

But I hear you - at the price, without Toyota standing behind it's probably better to get a killer sound system and forget the 6 and 7 liter rigs thunder by. Unless.

Question. Does Toyota raise the axle ratio with the towing package?
Question. Is there a discussion of generators on this board (I'm lazy).
Question. Does de-badging, "tonneauing" the TV increase tow capacity?
Question. What did Toyota do to boost hp to 282 vs. 240 last year?
Question. Why do we stick with these little Swiss Army knives?
Question. Why not just forget this nonsense get a big-liter Ford?
I know - same reason you don't take a Ski-Do to the summit!

One or two answers is all I will deserve!

Thanks for all the in-flight entertainment, Ray.

Tom

Yay..another Tundra owner!

Glad you enjoyed my tales of conquest when towing a TM at flying altitudes. :D

Now, as for turbocharging or supercharging the Tundra engine. It's possible but you've to be extermely careful about doing it when the goal is increased towing power. The problem is towing demands boost durations measured in minutes (or hours) whereas a short blast of acceleration has boost time that's less than 10 to 15 seconds.

Firstly, totally and absolutely forget the TRD (Eaton) supercharger that used to be available through Toyota dealers and was warranted by Toyota if dealer installed. For one thing, TRD no longer sells these...probably because semi-confirmed rumor has it that Toyota was eating a heckuva lot of warranty claims for engines where the pistons and/or connecting rods had made an explosive exit through the side of the block. :eek: For another, this unit had no real intercooling...it used extra fuel injectors in the supercharger housing to spray fuel into the plenum in a not very successful attempt to reduce inlet air temperatures. Most of the time this worked for very short periods (under 10 seconds) to keep the engine from experiencing catastrophic detonation (the cause of those grenading pistons and C-rods) but not always.

There are two aftermarket forced air units available for Tundras...one is a strange turbocharger made by Squires Turbo System (STS) (http://www.ststurbo.com/tundra_4_7l_kits) and the other is a centrifugal supercharger rom Speed of Sound (SOS) (http://www.sosperf.com/SOS%20Superchargers.htm). Both run around $4000 (plus installation...around another $500 to $1000), both will likely totally kill your engine and drivetrain warranty, and neither has much in the way of solid documented user experience at TundraSolutions (http://www.Tundrasolutions.com).

The STS turbo is very weird because it is waaaay downstream (actually under the truck) where the exhaust gasses have cooled enough to lose a lot (most) of their heat energy. Worse, its air intake is also under the truck where it will suck up all kinds of water and muck through the not-so-great K&N filter. I personally would not touch this system with a 10 foot pole.

The SOS Supercharger looks promising to me...it's properly intercooled and seems to have the right components. But AFAIK, no one has yet to install one and provide a detailed report back to the rest of us at TundraSolutions. But if I were to choose a supercharger and had no worries about being needing to pay for an engine and/or tranny replacement out of my pocket (about $8000 and $3000 respectively), this would be the one I'd go with. Potentially very good performance gains but also with potentially very high risk of engine/transmission damage.

In the meantime, the proven (and very low risk) mods that I have done...headers, low restriction muffler, and changing to 4.30 gears...have given me about the same usable torque increases (~25%) as I would have gotten from the very high risk forced induction solutions. Furthermore, I've gotten those gains for about $2000 less than any of the forced induction solutions would have cost if installation is figured in.

And there is still one more fairly low risk performance enhancement (a Unichip piggyback ECU) that I could install. The Unichip (http://www.unichip.us/) gets its performance gains (roughly 7 to 10%) by running the engine on much more aggressive timing maps and a much leaner (12:1 Fuel/Air instead of 10.5:1 F/A) fuel mix when the engine is in open-loop conditions (i.e. no feedback from the O2 sensors). Essentially the Unichip is getting these gains by cutting into the big safety margin that Toyota programmed into the stock ECU. One TundraSolutions member who does serious towing with a Tundra recently installed a Unichip...if he has no problems in this coming summer's towing season I may also put a Unichip in my Tundra. However, I'm also going to have to assess whether or not I really need to spend yet another $900 or so...it may be that the exhaust mods and regearing have already given me enough oomph for a great towing experience at flying altitudes. :D But then, I really hate to leave more power just laying on the table. :new_evil:

RockyMtnRay
11-30-2004, 10:01 AM
First, it seems a shame to truncate your very entertaining post, so
leaving it below for reference, let me say it's obvious that forced air
has occurred to you, too. Look, I'm not interested in blasting away
for hours at a time. I don't even want to run over 60 mph - I'd just like
to recreate 14.7 lbs. per inch and let those 32 valves do their thing -
is that asking too much of a well balanced motor? Why would pistons
want to fly while running under the rev limiter? There is one, no? I'm
not trying to re-create hell on earth inside those 8 chambers, just
the normal, well radiated burn pattern registered with the Calif.
AQMD (smog police) at sea level here in Calif. (or is it done in
Indiana?). Well, maybe a wee bit more, to keep up with those 49-state
TV's.


Yes, the iForce engine does have a rev limiter. The likely reason those pistons and rods made an exit through the side of the motor was catastrophic detonation (a really, really bad case of "knock"). The cause of that was most likely an extremely lean fuel mixture caused by excessively hot intake air. As mentioned above, the huge weakness of the TRD blower is that it does not have an intercooler...hence intake air can under certain conditions exceed 250 degrees. Furthermore, there are a number of disparaging comments on TundraSolutions about the quality of TRD's programming of the supplemental ("piggyback") ECU they provide with the supercharger. For one thing, this ECU is programmed to provide extra (cooling) fuel into the blower plenum via the 9th (all years) and 10th ('03s and later) injectors based only on inputs from the throttle position sensor...it does not monitor actual boost level or intake air temp after the blower as it should for determining the amount of extra fuel to inject. Several guys have called it a "piggycrap" ECU and quite frankly I think they're pretty close to the mark. Methinks that TRD stuff in general is grossly overrated and hugely overpriced.

But I hear you - at the price, without Toyota standing behind it's probably better to get a killer sound system and forget the 6 and 7 liter rigs thunder by. Unless.

Question. Does Toyota raise the axle ratio with the towing package?

Unfortunately no. :( Based on my preliminary (non-towing) experiences after regearing my truck from the stock 3.91 ratio to a 4.30 gearset, Toyota definitely should have made 4.30 gears part of the towing package. The performance difference is large (it lets the engine run at peak torque at towing speeds); yet the effect on gas mileage seems miniscule (perhaps .5 mpg).

Question. Is there a discussion of generators on this board (I'm lazy).

Yes. Use the search feature. However, not many folks have reported buying generators. One person had a genset mounted on his TM's hitch...good results but exceedingly high hitch weight. For portable generators, the consensus is to get one of the ultra quiet Honda models (EU series).

However, you really only need a generator if you must run the AC while camping. For lighting and other 12 volt power usage, solar panels are a far better solution. Several of us (Caver, Rotor_Wash, Bill, myself) have installed panels and are extremely happy with the results.

Question. Does de-badging, "tonneauing" the TV increase tow capacity?

Debadging...no (though it does reduce waxing time :) ). I'm leaving my Tundra fully badged so there's no question in the minds of other truck brand owners that they were passed like they were standing still by a Toyota! :D

Tonneauing actually decreases tow capacity because it adds substantial weight to the truck (200 to 400 lbs depending on brand and model). With the paltry 11,800 GCWR a Tundra is pretty limited on tow capacity to begin with and every ounce you add to the weight of the truck is an ounce less towing capacity. A tonneau might slightly improve towing gas mileage though.

Question. What did Toyota do to boost hp to 282 vs. 240 last year?

They re-engineered the head (and ECU) to have variable valve timing. That (in conjunction with a higher redline RPM) allowed an increase in top end horsepower. However, peak torque...a far, far more important number for towing than peak horsepower...increased by only 5 ft-lbs.

Question. Why do we stick with these little Swiss Army knives?
Question. Why not just forget this nonsense get a big-liter Ford?
I know - same reason you don't take a Ski-Do to the summit!

Welllll...in my case at the time I got my Tundra there were only two trucks that would fit in my kinda smallish garage...the Tundra and the Dodge Dakota. After test driving both, it was obvious the Tundra was far more refined and worth the extra $3 grand. Plus Toyota's reliability record is far better than any of the domestics. I was also able to buy my Tundra for almost $4000 under Invoice (not MSRP but Invoice...about $9000 below sticker). With that kind of upfront savings, I didn't mind at all spending $3000 or so on "tweaks" that have raised the performance to a level that meets my rather demanding needs.

One or two answers is all I will deserve!

Thanks for all the in-flight entertainment, Ray.

Tom
Glad to provide some joy! :D

APerkins
01-09-2005, 09:25 PM
Hi,

I just upgraded my tacoma to a tundra and what a difference! you will be happy with the tundra's towing abilities.

Teresa

Teresa,

Which model of TM do you pull?

ALAN

CC_Turtle
01-10-2005, 08:18 AM
Hi Alan,

we pull a 2720SL

Teresa