Ems-hw30c

[Craigrrr]

I was trying to purchase this EMS-HW30C from Progressive Industries since they had an after Christmas Sale that ended Jan1st. the only thing was their website would not allow the price they were offering it at which was $183.20 with free shipping.

So I wrote a couple of emails and today they called me back and will honor that price still. So I will give them a ATTA-BOY for doing that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddUamK3wnow

[Bill]

Craig -

This looks like a nice piece of gear for your trailer. As long as you are using the campground power post (or a socket in your own house) for shore power, it will provide a lot of protection. But you should be aware that there is a lot of discussion and confusion about what to do if you are using a generator as your trailer's source of power. The issue has to do with bonding the power source neutral to the power source ground. Most RV generators don't make this bond, probably because the NEC (National Electrical Code) says not to. Most generator manufacturers recommend leaving the bond off.

At the bottom line, if you make the bond, you are in violation of the code. But if the bond is not present, the Power Dynamics device won't connect power to your trailer. But I'm not sure what the answer is, but the expert in RV electrical systems, Mike Sokol, discusses it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3ZKDN-8Go&feature=youtu.be
He advocates making the bond. Though I normally accept Mike's recommendations without reservation, this one makes me a bit queasy. Your PD device demands that it must be there, but everyone who deals with electrical power in any form considers the NEC to be the Bible, and not to be tampered with under any conditions.

You might query PD, who is, by the way, a highly respected manufacturer of electrical stuff for RVs. I'd like to hear their comments.

Most of our TMO discussion is found in posts #3, 4, and 5 here
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7161

Bill

[BrucePerens]

Let's look at the inside of that surge protector:http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12758&stc=1&d=1452032890
The blue things on the left are the major components which protect you against surges. They are MOV varistors. They each cost about 50 cents. One important thing to know about them is that they are a sacrificial component. If you actually do get surges, they will eventually burn out. They burn out in the open state and the rest of the circuitry can't necessarily warn you because there's nothing that can be detected by the rest of the device. So you can't necessarily trust this device after a lightning storm, whatever the manufacturer tells you. It's best to physically inspect the MOVs once in a while. If they are discolored, that's a sign that they need replacement.

The spool-like device on the lower right might be a current sensor but I don't see the second set of wires that should come out of one. Are you supposed to run the hot wire through the middle? Then it's a current sensor. I was hoping it was a protective choke, but it is too small to be an effective one.

The rest of the parts are mainly a computer and a relay, concerned with protecting you from lifted ground or hot to ground (a wiring error), off-frequency (would only happen with a generator), and undervoltage (brown out which stalls your motor and then burns it out). When these are detected the relay will cut off the AC power. It looks like a 1980's design. All of those big through-hole parts and a socketed CPU with a software version label. It was programmed in a ROM burner! These days it would be all surface-mount, and there would be a JTAG port for programming the CPU in-circuit.

The main thing that is being protected in the Trailmanor is the air conditioner. And a good microprocessor slow-start circuit might do the same. The converter is a transformer load and not terribly sensitive. Everything else runs on DC or is a resistive load and not terribly sensitive.

If you _really_ want protection, the devices from Brickwall are the only ones on the market that can be trusted. They are high-frequency chokes rather than MOVs. No sacrificial components. Pulses won't get through.

For my ham station, I use an isolation transformer from a hospital room. It might never actually have to do anything.

[BrucePerens]

If the bond is not present, the Power Dynamics device won't connect power to your trailer.

Ugh. If you bond that, a GFI on the output of the generator would be a reasonable precaution. It would act to break an actual current path to ground rather than neutral. But if the power manager tests that path with too low an impedance, it would trigger the GFI.

[Craigrrr]

Thanks Bill,

So according to Mike Sokol video, when using an inverter type genny, to have a plug that basically just ties the neutral and ground together and terminates there inside his plug. I will be using a lot of power post at camp sites and other shore power, My Honda Eu2000i will only be used on occasion , So I think I would just make a plug that ties the neutral and ground together or ground the genny to the trailer frame just for when I use the generator, which will be limited. His plug sells for 19 bucks kinda high price in my opinion.

I have had some electronics fry in our class A unit from a faulty campground electric post in Maine, the campground was called Megunticook in Rockport ME. I dont know if they are still in business or not. That was 15 yrs ago. So I will feel comfortable using this HW30C

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/#!generator-plug/c1mwy

[Padgett]

Just a loint of paw but "off-frequency (would only happen with a generator)" means a generator alone and not a generator/inverter like a Honda EU2000i. In my testing last year the frequency of all the generator/inverters was very stable except momentarily at the point of overload.

[BrucePerens]

The 2014 National Electrical Code now requires both Arc Fault and Ground Fault protection on kitchen and laundry circuits in homes. I have the Boondocker converter waiting to be installed. I think it takes Homeline breakers, and that I can get the combined AFCI and GFCI in there. Other converters also take standard home breakers and might be retrofitted to AFCI and GFCI. That might be a good safety addition for people who have to tie ground and neutral at the generator. Or everyone in general.

Yes, modern inverters, including the ones in inverter generators, are crystal controlled. Here's a nice reference design from TI (http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa602/slaa602.pdf). I did not think until reading that: they make the sine wave with PWM, not linear components. Much more efficient that way. There's also an interesting design from EG Micro called EGS002, this is really driving prices down.

[Craigrrr]

found this to be good info: http://www.loveyourrv.com/update-to-progressive-industries-ems-hw30c-surge-protector-review/

[Padgett]

Am seeing a rise in the lightweight 2.5kw class of generators/inverters. Even with the momentary drop in voltage when a big load starts (13.5kbtu AC), the frequency and waveform stay very stable. In fact the worst waveform I see is from the Honda and that is the market leader. (Westpro WH2000iXLT shown).

[Craigrrr]

They did sell it to me for the advertised sale price of 183.20 free shipping, no tax. So That is a plus for the company in my book btw. and Lifetime Warranty .

Well, I have the EMS-HW30C installed in the Manor.. I had a low voltage the other day and got an error code E4 then voltage came back up and all is good. I installed the box in the rear access area on an aluminum plate to help dissipate heat if any is produced inside the box. and then mounted the led display inside by the outlet by the converter.

[Craigrrr]

Thanks Bill,

So according to Mike Sokol video, when using an inverter type genny, to have a plug that basically just ties the neutral and ground together and terminates there inside his plug. I will be using a lot of power post at camp sites and other shore power, My Honda Eu2000i will only be used on occasion , So I think I would just make a plug that ties the neutral and ground together or ground the genny to the trailer frame just for when I use the generator, which will be limited. His plug sells for 19 bucks kinda high price in my opinion.

I have had some electronics fry in our class A unit from a faulty campground electric post in Maine, the campground was called Megunticook in Rockport ME. I dont know if they are still in business or not. That was 15 yrs ago. So I will feel comfortable using this HW30C

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/#!generator-plug/c1mwy


I made my own plug $3.50 HD. Generator runs the TM now with the EMS-HW30C connected. This Plug ties the neutral and ground wires together for my Honda Inverter Genny