condensation

[dennisu]

as i prepare for another weekly tm venture, it seems to be the time of year that condensation becomes a problem in my tm, as well i am sure as in others. while at north and south padre island in january and february we experienced bad condensation and last weekend in kansas condensation again descended upon the inside of the tm.

i use one or two honda eu2000i's when needed so power is not a problem. i am wondering if anyone has utilized any of the electrical dehumidifiers that are on the market such as happy's air dryr in camping world. supposedly they do not draw that much current and if anyone has had any experience with them solving, or reducing the amount of condensation buildup i would greatly appreciate your input. i used two of the chemical type tubs and they do capture some moisture but i think it would take a lot of them to solve this problem.

dennis

[Bill]

Dennis -

The Happy's Air Dryer is not going to do you any good. This is a terribly deceptive ad for a terribly deceptive product. Camping World has a number of products like this, and it disturbs me every time I check their catalog. I buy much less from Camping World than I could - they have a giant store near me - because I HATE being ripped off by stuff like this.
The Happy's Air Dryer does NOT remove any water from the air. It is nothing but a small heater. You could accomplish the same thing with your furnace or your small electric heater - or a pair of 60-watt light bulbs.

WHY CONDENSATION HAPPENS - FEEL FREE TO SKIP THIS
Condensation happens because warm air can hold more water than cool air can hold.

As an example, suppose you have a roomful of warm air, maybe 75 degrees. At that temperature, the roomful of air can hold a certain amount of water (in the form of water vapor), but no more. For the sake of example, let's say that a roomful of warm air is able to hold 1 quart of water. This is the MAXIMUM it can hold - it can actually have less, of course.
So now let's say that at some given moment, your roomful of air doesn't actually have a quart of water in it - it has only half a quart of water. This means that the relative humidity in the room is 50%, and you feel fairly dry. Feels pretty good, doesn't it?
But now, let the temperature in the room drop a bit - say, 10 degrees. You haven't added any more water to the air - there is still half a quart. But at this cooler temperature, the air can't hold as much water. Let's say that at 65 degrees, the same roomful of air can hold only half a quart of water. Since the air still holds the original half quart, the relative humidity is now 100%, and it feels really clammy.
Now, drop the temperature a little bit more, maybe to 60 degrees. Uh oh! You still have the original half quart (16 ounces) of water in the air, but at 60 degrees, the air can no longer hold 16 ounces - it can only hold 12 ounces. What happens? The other 4 ounces of water condenses into liquid water - condensation! It should now be apparent why condensation happens on cold surfaces.

CONCLUSION:
So, getting back to the original thought, how does one prevent condensation? And especially, how do you prevent condensation when the amount of water is constantly increasing because people are breathing, cooking, etc?

One way - warm up the air, so it can hold more water. That is what the Happy's Air Dryer does. It is a cheap heater. But you can keep warming the air for only just so long. When the temp passes 80, or 90, or wherever your threshold of comfort is, you'll get tired of this solution.

The real way? Get rid of some of the airborne water, so it doesn't condense even when the temperature drops. Two ways to do this.

1. Let the wet air out of the TM, and bring in dry air to replace it. In other words, crack a vent. If the new air you bring in is cool and dry, you may have to heat it with your furnace, but you'll eliminate condensation. Of course if you are in Florida in the summer, and are bringing in air that is already 95 degrees and 100 percent humidity, you are not going to gain on the situation.

2. Run a dehumidifier. It will suck the water out of the air. The chemical tubs are true dehumidifiers - they actually suck water out of the air. But as you note, you need a lot of them. Electric dehumidifiers are kind of heavy and use a lot of electricity. (A dehumidifier is basically an air conditioner in disguise.) You can buy a dehumidifier at any store like WalMart for a $150 or so. Or you can buy one from Camping World (DryAir Dehumidifier) for $350 or so.

I vote for cracking a vent.

There is no magic solution. As the saying goes, if you find one that is "too good to be true", then it is.

HTH

Bill

[ColoradoCop]

I agree with Bill on simply cracking the vent or opening a window or two just a little. Seems like even making coffee will fog up the windows if the conditions are right (or wrong, depending on your view of the problem ;))

Guess that the problem stems from proper sealing of the TM :-\.

ColoradoCop 8)

[dennisu]

hal and colorado cop

appreciate your response, especially you hal. this past weekend i did in fact crack a vent during the night and daytime and while the first night we did have some condensation the rest of the nights were dry after keeping the windows cracked and the vent. your explanation was well done and again appreciated.

thanks

dennis

[arknoah]

I agree with CC in that the units are pretty good at keeping air out (except the seal near our rear bed -- brrr!). We've often had condensation, and while not fun, it is somewhat reassuring to know that we're keeping lots of the right temperature in the trailer.

[Happytrails]

On my way home from work today, a car pulled out in front of me from their driveway. While following them a little ways, I noticed a lot of water coming outta the tailpipe, and once again wondered why/ where is this water coming from?!? (Something I've always been kinda curious about). Then I remembered Bill's post on condensation, and it all made sense! Lol, another one of life's little mysteries answered finally...... (Also answered what "Dewpoint" means). Thanks Bill!!!!


Happytrails..........

[efelker]

Happy:

Either that, or it's one of those new fuel cell cars running on water -- then I guess that would make it a fuel leak.

Ed

[TKB]

I was looking at electric dehumidifiers that would be small enough for our new 3023. I did a search on MSN home page putting in "dehumidifier" and one of the results was for a dehumidifier on amazon that was 12.5 inches high by 6.5 wide by 6.5 deep it was $59.99 so I bought it. It came in the mail last week and I plugged it in my bedroom and it seemed to work pretty good. This may not be the best solution but at least it wont take up as much room in the TM as a regular dehumidifier.

[Bill]

Is this the Windchaser? I'll be interested in the results in the TM.

Bill

[Carol]

Hi!

The problem is most noticeable on the windows, the thinner wall areas (at perimeter of the bed), above the wheel wells and on the velcro flaps - anywhere where the insulation is lacking (we found an obvious spot on one wall where the insulation must have a small area missing). Has anyone done anything to increase the insulation in these areas?

It would be great if TrailManor could put thermopane windows in these units and put a better insulation in the thin wall and velcro areas and put some insulation above the wheel wells. This would also help with heat gain in hot weather and make the air conditioner run less.

When camping with low temperatures (low 20's at night and highs in the 30's), we had considerable condensation even though we were running 2 small electric heaters and an oscillating fan to move the air around. The walls, ceiling and floor did not have condensation, which attests to the fact that there is adequate insulation in those locations. We had to wipe the windows, bed perimeter and velcro areas down every morning using a number of towels. We also had to move the bedding from the walls to dry out during the day. We did put a rolled up sleeping bag at the far end of the bed to help with warmth - that got wet as well where it touched the outside shell area on our 2720SL.

Carol

[dennisu]

since i made the original posting on condensation, i feel obligated to reply. since the original posting, i have returned to the texas gulf coast just after christmas and spent nearly two months at the national seashore and south padre island. last year condensation was a mess to say the least with all the moisture off of the ocean. i would advise everyone to real bill's post above which helped me immensely.

we also have camped numerous days in low teen weather with hookups and once without just using the generator with two electric heaters (pelonis type disc heaters). we use a product called damp rid which is a chemical that draws out the mositure in the air. the best kind that i have found is contained in a bag that once it becomes saturated with moisture, you just heat it up in the microwave to remove the moisture and re-use it. we hang one off the hanging cabinet in the kitchen and one off the bathroom wall in the rear bed area. i also have the cannister type that i have sitting out on the ledge in the living room and also one on the floor in the bathroom. they draw in the water and then all you have to do is empty the container. the bag type is the best as far as i am concerned. they really helped us. but and i say BUT the best solution is provided by bill in that you need to supply more venting accompanied by more heat as needed. this really made a difference. we still got some condensation on the windows but have not had any wet bedding since we started venting a lot more.

thanks bill for you advice. hope this helps others with the same annoying problem.

dennis

[TKB]

Yes Bill it is the wind chaser. We are not going camping until July this year, but when we get back I will post to let everyone know how it works.

[TKB]

We went on our first trip with the TM last week to Yogi bear's campground in ashland NH it was a very nice campground with lots of stuff for the kids to do. Anyway while we were there it was pretty humid and the wife and I thought the wind chaser worked great. I had to empty it about every other day. Even when using the Ac all day we never got any condensation on the inside of the TM. Another thing it worked great for was the day before we left after everyone was done showering I put it in the bathroom for the day and it realy helped to dry out the shower curtain. We just used the campground showers on the day we left.

[TandemKids]

Hello all,

We experienced condensation problems until we bought a small cabinet top Hammacher Schlemmer dehumidifier. It cost $90 and has worked very well for us. It is small and uses a thermo-electric peltier module instead of a compressor, so it is very quiet. The morning after we started using it, we dumped about a cup of water out of the reservoir, and have not had any more condensation problems since.

We ordered it on-line.

Happy Camping,

Michael

[G-V_Driver]

Try covering the windows in the sleeping area (or at least one of them just to test the theory) with Saran wrap. Overlap the window and affix the wrap to the wall, and be sure to pull it tight enough to create a small dead-air space between the glass and the wrap. That might be enough to stop the sweat. If it works, figure out a permanent way to create the same physics with something more permanent.

[OneMoBear]

In preparation for our month on the Oregon coast, I've been searching "dehumidifier" and dug up this old thread. I know there are newer ones but this one made reference to one I am considering:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001JK9DU8/ref=asc_df_B001JK9DU81391882?smid=A1N3RJPXDO3WOT&tag=nextagusmp0356069-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395129&creativeASIN=B001JK9DU8

Does anyone recommend either this one or one of the Eva-drys that Amazon lists on that page as "Customers Who Bought Related Items Also Bought" or any other one that is somewhat less than $300? :p

Malinda

[ShrimpBurrito]

I have not used any, but I was thinking about getting one at some point and doing some cursory research. If you do get one, I'd be interested in hearing your experience.

Dave

[OneMoBear]

I have not used any, but I was thinking about getting one at some point and doing some cursory research. If you do get one, I'd be interested in hearing your experience.

Dave

I'm sure we'll get something. We were only there for two weeks last fall and there was mold in both the front and back windows. I'll let you know!

Malinda

[scrubjaysnest]

Proper venting and/or running the AC or heat strip should take care of the problem. That's what we do here in FL. Run the AC during the warm months and vent the camper during the winter months to prevent sweating when running the heat.

[OneMoBear]

Proper venting and/or running the AC or heat strip should take care of the problem. That's what we do here in FL. Run the AC during the warm months and vent the camper during the winter months to prevent sweating when running the heat.

We'll certainly take that out for a spin but with the two of us, two 70 pound dogs and a 16 pound cat on the Oregon coast, in October . . . we're gonna need all the help we can get :p

Malinda