Winter Camping in a 3023 for the season

[dnemecek]

Has anyone slept in their Trailmanor 3023 during a winter? I live in Colorado Springs and am considering using my trailer for the winter. Looking for suggestions or if this is even possible. I believe we got like 13 inches of total snow last season. Thanks

[rvcycleguy]

Spent 15 days in Sedona last winter. TM was warm. Furnace and oil/ electric space heater made it toasty. Also, we had an electric blanket that we placed under the sheet in the rear bed. Due to the overhang, the rear bed platform gets cold, so we slept on a warm blanket. High temp for both weeks did not reach 50 degrees and nighttime temps were as low as 20.

Also spent several days in Santa Fe on the way home where snow was on the ground the entire time. Did not use the freshwater line outside to the park water source due to freezing temps. TM are actually very well insulated units.

[countrygirl]

There are some threads on here about it not being good for snow to build up on a TM. You can stay warm in a TM when it is very cold though. We had snow last year while we were bow hunting in Missouri but it melted fairly quickly. We have camped in weather that is in the teens and stayed warm. You do need to fill your fresh water and disconnect and drain the hose unless you have one of the heated hoses. I guess your fresh water tank is inside one of the bench seats. You may need to leave it open for heat to get to it. Ours is under the sink and we just leave the door to the cabinet open.

[rumbleweed]

Make sure you have some pool noodles. Also you will find that considerable moisture penetrates the mattress and condenses on the top of the bed tray making the bottom of the mattress damp. Not a big deal, but you will need to remove the mattress when you get home to dry out.

[PopBeavers]

I would be most concerned about water freezing.

outdoor hookup line
fresh tank
water heater
toilet
grey tank
all lines

4 season RVs have electric heaters for some of these.

I believe that below some temperature propane will no longer be usable, but no damage will be done.

[JamKat+Fam]

Regarding keeping warm in bed... we have used an electric mattress pad before and it was GREAT. We used it on top of a foam egg topper on an air mattress while tent camping in mid 40s (at night) and it was just fine so I imagine it would be toasty in especially cold weather. {The only reason we stopped using it was DH shorted out the wires on his side somehow. MY side was fine.}

[rumbleweed]

When it gets cold enough for propane to no longer be usable, I suggest you pack up and go home as you will not be very usable either. Propane stops evaporating at -45F

[countrygirl]

There are photos on here and sort of a blog of a fellow camping in I think Colorado in the winter I will for you.

[moaboy]

Somebody camped in Moab during the winter and detailed their trip on here. With precautions they did fine.

[countrygirl]

I have been searching but can't find the thread I am looking for. I did find this thread and it is a good one about not a lot of leaving snow on the the roof for extended amount of time:

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8625

The thread I am looking for is where a guy camps I think in Co. about 2 years ago...he tows his 2619 with a Jeep Wrangler (longer version then mine) He had a sort of contest to guess the length of the icicle coming off his window awning.

[T and C]

Here is a link to Mr. Geek's thread about his 17 days of winter camping.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11167

The thread has a lot of pages and it did not start snowing for several days. I think the picture of the 7 foot icicle hanging off his TM is on page 8.

Tom

[countrygirl]

Thanks T and C...I just found the thread too...it is in Utah and the thread is 14 pages long. I love this thread and I am still jealous he could tow his TM with his Jeep Wrangler. The thread is an interesting read.


FYI: I did see another thread that cautioned don't get snow/ice off with a metal shovel...bad scarring to TM.

[T and C]

I have spent most of my life in SoCal, so my snow experience is limited to visits to the mountains and two winters in Michigan back in the 60's.

I have a question about using those heated water hoses you see advertised in RV magazines. Wouldn't the pipe that comes out of the ground where you attach the hose freeze even if the hose did not? :confused:

The DW and I have been talking about spending two weeks in an RV park in either Big Bear, CA or Flagstaff, AZ this winter just to see how we would like living where winter is the real thing. Hence, my interest in this question.

Sunshine Tom

[Barb&Tim]

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11167

[B_and_D]

There's this post too:

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559 (http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559&highlight=mammoth)

[PopBeavers]

The DW and I have been talking about spending two weeks in an RV park in either Big Bear, CA or Flagstaff, AZ this winter just to see how we would like living where winter is the real thing. Hence, my interest in this question.
Sunshine Tom

I have been to Big Bear in the Winter (house rental).

I have been to Norden (Donner pass) in the Winter (house rental).

Never confuse two places like this, even though they are in the same state.

In Norden I had to shovel around the car twice a day. I piled the snow on top of the snow next to the car. Eventually I had to move my pile over so I could start a new pile. I can only toss snow about 8 to 10 feet high. For a 3 day storm that is not high enough.

Just as a guess, Norden can get more snow in a weekend than Big Bear will get in a season.

The newer homes in Norden are 6 inch exterior studs instead of the normal 2x4. This is to allow for additional insulation. Code requirements.

But both are nice places.

[kokilo]

We travel in the winter in our TM up and down the west coast. At the first sign of snow or ice in the forecast we pull in to a park with water, power and sewer and wait for roads to become completely bare before proceeding. We have been stuck for up to a week in the snow waiting to move on. Of course there is winter and there is winter. You cannot compare winter camping on the West coast in Oregon and Washington with Minnesota or Northern New York.

The big issue is keeping the snow and ice off the roof. We have a push broom that we use every few hours to keep it from building up.

Heat is not a problem, we use 2 1500 watt heaters and have a spare propane tank which we deploy to avoid having to move the dinette slide (2720SD) to get at the horizontal tanks. In addition we have made covers for the windows, vents and door out of a roll of reflective insulation with an air gap core that we bought at Home Depot. These covers slide under the curtains against the glass and make a tremendous difference in heating. The vent covers are held in place with velcro.

If it's below freezing at night we fill our water tank once a day and keep the cabinet doors open to avoid a freeze. We have not had temperatures so low that we could not dump black and grey water or had the grey water tank freeze. If we did have to deal with it, building a skirt out of insulation around the tank and plumbing and hanging a 100 watt bulb incandescent bulb for heat in the space would probably do the trick.

Our best idea was to use two single thermorest camping mattresses under the TM Queen size mattress in the rear. This is very warm and is so comfortable that we use them in all seasons now.


Peter and Martha

[OneMoBear]

I have spent most of my life in SoCal, so my snow experience is limited to visits to the mountains and two winters in Michigan back in the 60's.

I have a question about using those heated water hoses you see advertised in RV magazines. Wouldn't the pipe that comes out of the ground where you attach the hose freeze even if the hose did not? :confused:

The DW and I have been talking about spending two weeks in an RV park in either Big Bear, CA or Flagstaff, AZ this winter just to see how we would like living where winter is the real thing. Hence, my interest in this question.

Sunshine Tom

Now here is a subject I can talk about! I grew up in Escondido but have lived in snow country for the past way too many years to mention, including Wyoming, Flagstaff and now Colorado. We lived in Flagstaff for 22 years and the only thing that could have convinced us to leave was our precious grandchildren. I couldn't recommend Flagstaff more highly.

However, you will not like it in a TM in the winter. You would most likely end up at the KOA which is ok but it is steep (as in an adventure just to get to the restrooms/laundry walking on ice), water and dumping will be an unending job, on and on. We have done it. It's not fun. It makes Sedona sound really good, Phoenix even better. If you have a house where you can walk around, throw another log on the fire, not even think about running water and sewer, it is VERY different.

I think a cabin or even a hotel room would give you a much better sense of how it feels to LIVE there, rather than to camp there.

Malinda

P.S. We have been warm as toast in our TM in single digits multiple times, but everything else is not exactly something to look forward to.

[tgpmd1]

We have only camped a few times in the cold, but mid November in the low 30's was the coldest. We used air conditioning foam (gray from hardware store) under all the flaps. For the large flap up near the front, we used leftover pink foam cut out of two large pieces to insulate that area. It's hard and we cut to fit in the space. We a 1500W twin ceramic heaters we use for heat in the main area. I also have two 200W small space heaters we use for the bedroom areas. When taking a shower, the 200W is nice to heat up the bathroom. Remember that there will be quite a bit of condensation each day to deal with. Mostly in the windows. We haven't been braved a trip longer than 3 days in cold weather. We did not have hook ups, so didn't need to worry about a hose line freezing. Good luck!

[T and C]

Now here is a subject I can talk about! I grew up in Escondido but have lived in snow country for the past way too many years to mention, including Wyoming, Flagstaff and now Colorado. We lived in Flagstaff for 22 years and the only thing that could have convinced us to leave was our precious grandchildren. I couldn't recommend Flagstaff more highly.

However, you will not like it in a TM in the winter. You would most likely end up at the KOA which is ok but it is steep (as in an adventure just to get to the restrooms/laundry walking on ice), water and dumping will be an unending job, on and on. We have done it. It's not fun. It makes Sedona sound really good, Phoenix even better. If you have a house where you can walk around, throw another log on the fire, not even think about running water and sewer, it is VERY different.

I think a cabin or even a hotel room would give you a much better sense of how it feels to LIVE there, rather than to camp there.

Malinda

P.S. We have been warm as toast in our TM in single digits multiple times, but everything else is not exactly something to look forward to.

Thanks for the above, and PopBeavers' post too. I'm convinced. The TM will stay at home for this one.

Tom

[LoveToCamp]

Thought I would share my recent "dry" cold weekend experience.

Went pheasant hunting in eastern Colorado this weekend. Only had a dry-camping spot, which was fine with me. Filled the 40-gallon fresh-water tank in my 2416, to 30 gallons. Figured more water would take longer to freeze.

Friday night only got down to about 30°, so we didn't expect any problems (and had none). Stayed plenty warm, with the heater coming on for about 10 minutes out of 25 minutes.

Saturday got up to 55°, but started dropping quickly about 2 p.m. Got back to camp about 7:30, and it was 25°.

Woke up Sunday morning, and it was 9°. Still had hot and cold water, and no problems. Did not try to use the water to "flush" the toilet, as we are all guys, and trees worked fine. Keeping the bathroom/shower closed gave us more counter space for our stuff.

Got back to camp about 1 p.m., and it was 25°. Still had running water. Opened all the drains to drain the water system, and all drained fine. The only issue we had was opening the gray-water tank. It had ice at the drain, and it took quite a bit of working to get it open.

Next time, I will put hot water down the drain, then drain the gray-water tank more frequently, to make sure it does not build up too much.

I love this unit for short winter trips! Stayed plenty warm, didn't use a tank of propane (made french toast and pancakes for breakfasts, heated water for coffee), and the battery held plenty of charge (I assume, as there is no monitor in a 2417). Will not hesitate to take it out again in the winter.

If I was going to do longer outings, the gray water may be a challenge, as well as keeping the battery charged. I would get a generator, and put a light bulb under the gray tank, and box the area in to keep the heat there. Generator would also recharge the battery, so I could stay "dry" for quite a while, if I wanted to.

[surfbiggoofy]

Make sure you have some pool noodles. Also you will find that considerable moisture penetrates the mattress and condenses on the top of the bed tray making the bottom of the mattress damp. Not a big deal, but you will need to remove the mattress when you get home to dry out.

We just purchased a 2013 Trailmanor 2027 SD and in the process of updating it to current technology. As far as cold weather camping we were in Moab when it hit 9 degrees F two weeks ago today just before dawn. We had a Little Buddy Propane heater inside to support the forced air furnace pointed at the aft bedroom. We had electrical hookups so we weren't concerned about the furnace running the batteries dry.

I had taken the step to get some pool noodles and pipe insulation (also fantastic for making sure the hanging cabinets and wardrobe don't get beat up on rough dirt roads) around the bed and my wife found a decent draft behind the wardrobe and we stuffed pipe insulation it it and it was fine. Thanks to the folks that suggested using pool noodles around the bed area. I had also put down Reflectix insulation under the bed. The condensation between the bed and the Reflectix is a problem as we noticed mold under on our mattress cover. We washed it and it seems fine. We are planning on using a pair of twin 12v mattress heaters to deal with that problem and wanted to know if others have had a similar issue and what they did to correct the issue.

We also had really good luck with Reflectix cut to fit the windows. Going the full "Cousin Eddy" saved us a ton of propane such that the forced air furnace actually shut off at 15 degrees F in the middle of the night because it was that warm inside.

Our next issue was the previous owner had put peel and stick gray foam door insulation to prevent door drafts and at anything below 15 degrees F we had to defrost the door with the portable propane heater before it would open and we have a little dog that needs to have a bit of personal time early in the morning. Any suggestions there would be appreciated, probably more by the little dog as we fire up the Coleman coffee maker and climb right back into bed as it goes to work.

We did have a water protocol for each night. Our camp host would turn off the water each night and wait for the temps to climb to 35 degrees F before turning the water back on. We left the plumbing drains open and all of the faucets open inside. Please let me know if this in y'all's experience is excessive.

We don't have a heated supply hose (yet) so we would disconnect the supply hose, filter and regulator stow that inside after topping off the water tanks and making sure the hot water tank was full. We would open the plumbing drain valves and open the under sink cabinet door and the bathroom door. We did have the gray water drain open and a had a sloped drain hose to the sewer connection and never had a problem with the gray water operation. Overnight we used water jugs. In the morning when the temps would climb above freezing, I'd run outside and close the low plumbing drain valves and fire up the demand pumps and we were good to go for the day. When the camp host turned back on the supply water, I'd hook up the supply hose and refill the tanks.

I do have plans to put some underbody insulation and pipe heating this season.

Cheers, Brian

[Blueduck3285]

We are going to go this Friday to St. Vrain and see how our new to us TM does. This is our first camper and first trip.

[Shane826]

If this is your first trip in your first ever camper I would highly recommend you wait for nicer weather. Winter campering presents a whole new series of challenges that aren’t always easy even for experienced camperers.

[Bill]

We are going to go this Friday to St. Vrain and see how our new to us TM does. This is our first camper and first trip.
St Vrain is a beautiful campground. We stay there whenever we can get reservations, which isn't often. However, the land around it is dead flat for miles, and the wind coming down off the front range can be ferocious. My limited experience is that cold itself can be handled, but cold with even a moderate wind can be a major problem. At least check the weather forecast before you go. If you can, face the nose of the TM into the wind. And do not let yourself run out of propane, or gas for your car.

Bill

[Bill]

One other suggestion. Pool noodles and pipe insulation are great for many air-leak areas, such as around the beds. But they are kind of rigid for other areas, such as around the bottom of the entry door. For this area in particular, something more limp and deformable, is needed. A canvas tube filled with coarse sand or fine gravel, or even a couple big socks similarly filled, can a better solution.

Bill

[Blueduck3285]

St Vrain is a beautiful campground. We stay there whenever we can get reservations, which isn't often. However, the land around it is dead flat for miles, and the wind coming down off the front range can be ferocious. My limited experience is that cold itself can be handled, but cold with even a moderate wind can be a major problem. At least check the weather forecast before you go. If you can, face the nose of the TM into the wind. And do not let yourself run out of propane, or gas for your car.

Bill

We are skipping this weekend as it just appears to get worse as the days get closer. We are going to try closer to the end of the month.

I thought I had read someone talking about water and their mattress, is that only a concern on the cold months or all year?

[Bill]

Speaking only for myself, I have not experienced significant condensation in the bed at any temperature that is even remotely comfortable - say above 50*. It seems to me that it would be almost inevitable at temps below 40* or so. Condensation occurs when the inside air is humid - it contains a lot of water vapor. Water vapor is generated by people breathing, of course, and can be made worse by showering and cooking. One of the worst sources is standalone propane heaters, since water is a natural byproduct of propane combustion. Whenever you run one of these, you need to crack a vent to let some of the humid air out, or it will rain inside. Seems counter-intuitive, I know. By the way, the TM propane furnace is vented outside, so it does not generate water vapor inside the trailer.

Bill

[Shane826]

We camped in the 1000 Islands in late October last fall. I didn’t think it was a great idea but my wife really wanted to go so we compromised and went camping. Weather was miserable. Dropped into the mid-40°s at night. I was amazed how much condensation was on the bottom of the mattress in the morning. I’m half expecting to have to replace it due to mildew when we get the camper out in the Spring. Either way I’ve talked to a few places about a mattress cover with a vinyl bottom.

[Kidkraz]

My nephew floated this idea to me awhile back. I have zero idea how good or bad it is, just tossing the idea out there.


https://www.mattressinsider.com/mattress-condensation-prevention.html

[Kmikesell]

Two things'....
One: If moister is an issue (Not so much here in UT) you can do what sailors have done (A VERY moist environment) Use a vinal lattice under the bunk. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-4-ft-x-8-ft-Black-Garden-Vinyl-Lattice-73004497/205575644

Two: DW and I have "camped" in 12 degee temp, with a small electric heater. No prob.

[Pseive36]

Hello. New owner of a 2000 3023. I have used a desktop heater(6×10), in the recent cold snap we had in Denver area. Went from negative 4 to about 50 degrees internal temp, however it took the day. I ordered a new space heater and will try again. But I'm impressed so far. It's set up in my driveway, and it holds most of the weather out as long as I'm prepared. Can't be late to jump though.