Curious - why doesn't TM sell more units?

[SCBillandJane]

I think Trailmanors are unique in the industry. HILO trailers are out of business, so there is no competition and yet the factory is in trouble. What limits the Trailmanor appeal? I thought it would be interesting to ask what you would do differently if you bought the company and were starting from a blank piece of paper. I am sure quality control would have to improve, but I am only asking about design improvements that you think would improve the appeal of a Trailmanor. I guess I am having trouble understanding why something that we have had so much fun using isn't selling well.

[rumbleweed]

I don't think there are many deal maker/breaker improvements to the current model as it has evolved over sometime. The only change that may have a positive impact on sales is the addition of a flush toilet/holding tank OPTION for those who have issues with the recirc toilet. I have no issue, but if you search the forum, you will see that some do. I think the biggest hurdle for TM is the economy. Initially it boosted sales because it was fuel efficient and did not require a larger TV for a small price premium. The long recession brought with it unbelievable price reductions in standard Rec trailers to the point that they are now considerably less expensive that a similar size TM making them more of a niche product. One option to survival might be to have dealers stock the very base model and accessorize as needed from standard RV accessories. This was a special order option, but you almost never saw one on a dealers lot.

[Dave99gst]

New Unit Price is what i think the problem is.. I think most people compare a TM to a popup. Weather we do or not isn't the issue, knowing how big of a difference it is AFTER ownership don't help the initial sale of what appears to be an expensive popup.

[Joseph]

What limits the Trailmanor appeal?

Lack of advertising that teaches the benefits of owning a TM.

Cost.

The having to put up and take down factor.

No black water tank.


For me and mine the benefits outweigh the above. But for others......

[P and B]

Most of my improvements would likely make the TM more expensive except for maybe one which is to cast the shells as single pieces- maybe like boat hulls.

Just from maintaining mine, it appears as if they are painstakingly put together with laminations and caulked joints all over the place. I think some things like this to get some of the labor costs down and to cut down on our maintenance would be a good idea. Everything seems to rust or peel ;-) From and engineers perspective, I think it's designed pretty well.

How to help TM come back from the brink? Well, the one change I've noticed lately is that they have strayed somewhat from their niche of the hard sided folding trailer and have, perhaps, branched out into too many different models. This is likely impacted their Cost of Goods and their quality to boot. I'd recommend going back to the folding trailer biz and I do like the addition of the very small units to compete with the teardrop trailer market but having said that, I don't see too many of the smaller trailers on the road so I don't know really what the demand is for them.

I know that when I made my decision to buy the TM, there were a few factors that I considered: 1. being able to tow it without buying a huge truck;2. Large enough that we wouldn't feel cramped; 3. Being able to store it at the house (that's another story). After that, there was the price but it wasn't the main concern since I bought it new and knew I'd take a beating on depreciation.

[clown9644]

The TM is a niche product for sure. The one item that hurts (?) the sales is the recirculating commode which by the way is a necessity as the folks who test and certify (sort of a UL for campers whose name escapes my poor old brain) insists on it. They will not allow TM to install a black tank system, nor any other pop-up manufacturer. You want to save on gas, you are stuck with a Thetford, which really is not that bad a thing.

My only complaints so far:

1. Too many caulk joints to fail
2. The velcro seams and coverings are barely OK. Has to be a better means of closing off these 3 inch openings other than the noodles we all use.
3. Automated lifting systems, especially for the front. Seems that for a couple of hundred extra dollars a cable lifting system could be designed.

Dave

[Camperwantabe]

I have been reading a lot of input for the TM on this forum. I am in the decision making mode on whether to buy new or used. I am impressed with the look and tow ease of the TM. I would be towing with a 2004 Honda Pilot, with transmission cooler and a Prodigy brake. My question being are they worth the cost and are they hard to keep up compared to a regular trailer? I really appreciate the input from so many. I don't want to invest in a big gas guzler to pull a trailer. Help me see the best way to go....:).

[Brittany Dogs]

I keep thinking my 2011 purchase of a 2720SD was the perfect choice for us. After 28 nights camping in it the first season, I STILL say that. I had quality issues that I took care of myself since the dealer is three hours away. Dumb stuff too! But the quality issues took less time to "fix" than my new Coleman Grandview SP that I purchased in 1998. Bottom line is, you can buy a $500,000 Class A and you'll still have a punch list after the first two outings needing fixing. These things are not made with the Quality mindset of companies that make medical equipment or satellites. If a company makes a satellite, the unit has to work, end of story. No excuses. Testing and quality checks take 20% of the time (months) before it is ever delivered. You can't get away with "wow, we never did check that power supply out". Just see what the cost is to pull it back out of the upper atmosphere and fix it.

Regarding the toilet; well mine works and we do both 1 & 2 in it and the smell is only a problem when it is hot outside and we are on day #3. In my opinion, the Coleman had the perfect toilet in it and it was a Thetford "cassette" toilet. I keep thinking that setup would have worked well in the TM's too however one would have to remove the cassette before putting the shells down, dump it and clean it for next time, then when next time happens, just pop it back in once the shells are back up on the campsite. The cassette toilet is preloaded with 15 liters of fresh water and the fresh holding cassette has only .5 liters in it (the way I did it). The 15 liters is used for flushing into the cassette and thus, the weight is only transferred into the holding tank.

The idea of a lift system would take way more than a few hundred bucks to engineer and would add recurring cost, weight and be a component subject to failure. I can do without it but it is a nice wish.

Yes my Coleman had a 1 piece ABS roof that was great until Coleman had a huge failure rate on them after a few years and the roof started to look like a banana. Units that had the lifetime warranty, like mine, had to have a new $2200 roof replaced on them and that new roof had several seams on it. The ABS one-piece roof was never made again that I know of. Having a one piece shell is a great idea but to mold that with ABS plastic and have it size stable over many years would not happen. Although a one piece "cap" with side seams that won't get bothered by rain if the seams start failing is not a bad idea.

The economy is killing lots of industries and RV manufacturers are going belly up by the month. Careful who you vote for in 2012. Coleman folding trailers is no more as of last January. The nicer quality of the Coleman’s was at a price newbie's didn't want to pay and the dealers could not convince them that the money was well spent, which it was.

I continue to feel bad about all the workers at TM since I bet they were all like family since the workforce size is small. I am not sure if management and ownership is the root cause but for me, that's the first place I'd look. Newer processes like value-stream engineering and lean manufacturing are not just buzz words. Some of these things actually work and work well. Mistake #1 is to think it can't fit well in their industry. Where I live there is a car-wash chain and another company, a fast-food taco chain that uses lean manufacturing and it works. People just don’t realize the process is taking place.

My new TM, despite a few problems, has some of the best RTV beads I have ever seen and the decals were nicely done and applied. Things like the wallpaper, floor covering and curtains are beautiful and all in all, generally nice stuff. Yes there are things that could have been better but I stick to what I say about all of these units made by anybody.

I just hope (and pray) that TM recovers and does not do the same things wrong all over again. Like politics, you cannot expect the same people that got us in this mess, to be the SAME people who fix it. Thank you sir, may I have another? Doctor, it hurts when I poke myself in the eye!

[ng2951]

Cost is probably the biggie.

You can get a huge trailer for what a TM costs. The only way to get a price break is to buy used.

I think most of the things people would not like they don't discover until after they have owned it a while.

[gerry1950]

Purchased a new 2010 2720SD and have had nothing but trouble. Been to the factory twice and still problems. This past weekend I traded in for a JAYCO 2012 Skylark 21FKV. Has the same weight and tows like the TrailManor. These Skylark models can be towed by almost any SUV or Crossover.
With options, I paid nearly $30,000 for the 2720SD and the Skylark was
$21,860 with electric awning, central stereo/dvd and better equipment.
One dealer said he would give me $8,400 on trade which I laughed at.
The best I could get was $14,000. In less than two years my investment lost more than 50%. TrailManor has priced itself out of the market. The quality and service is poor at best.

Let me be clear. I like the concept of the trailer, easy towing and fuel economy but the product is lacking in quality. My last service at the factory was a dismal failure. The factory installed another manufacturer's outer rubber seal to all the windows which I did not authorize or was not aware of until I brought the trailer home. Now I cannot close the windows without prying the seals because the replacement has a different profile and collapses in. I had to fight with trailmanor to send me the correct seal material. They acted as if they were doing me a favor after their mistake.
The factory said they would pay for the replacement labor but now this in question. How can you service a trailer and not check your work? This was the straw that broke the camel's back with this product! Frustrated and fed up!

[T and C]

Purchased a new 2010 2720SD and have had nothing but trouble. Been to the factory twice and still problems. This past weekend I traded in for a JAYCO 2012 Skylark 21FKV. Has the same weight and tows like the TrailManor. These Skylark models can be towed by almost any SUV or Crossover.
With options, I paid nearly $30,000 for the 2720SD and the Skylark was
$21,860 with electric awning, central stereo/dvd and better equipment.
One dealer said he would give me $8,400 on trade which I laughed at.
The best I could get was $14,000. In less than two years my investment lost more than 50%. TrailManor has priced itself out of the market. The quality and service is poor at best.

Let me be clear. I like the concept of the trailer, easy towing and fuel economy but the product is lacking in quality. My last service at the factory was a dismal failure. The factory installed another manufacturer's outer rubber seal to all the windows which I did not authorize or was not aware of until I brought the trailer home. Now I cannot close the windows without prying the seals because the replacement has a different profile and collapses in. I had to fight with trailmanor to send me the correct seal material. They acted as if they were doing me a favor after their mistake.
The factory said they would pay for the replacement labor but now this in question. How can you service a trailer and not check your work? This was the straw that broke the camel's back with this product! Frustrated and fed up!

I am writing this from the Trailblazer's rally at Pismo Beach, CA. A bunch of trailers showed up, 24 I think. Thereabouts anyway. I talked with a lot of folks about their trailers, and absolutely no one said they disliked their TM! Some had had quality issues, but no one wanted to get rid of their trailer because of this. Many bought new, and some had what would qualify as "old" TM's. One 2518 was here. We all had one thing in common. We really like our TM's.

In my case I bought a 2008 model in 2010. It was a used unit, not older but still unsold new. We have had a few minor maintentence problems. but nothing serious. Everything works. We really like, and really enjoy our TM.:)

Tom

[ng2951]

...I paid nearly $30,000 for the 2720SD and the Skylark was
$21,860 ...One dealer said he would give me $8,400 on trade which I laughed at. The best I could get was $14,000. In less than two years my investment lost more than 50%...In two years or less you would see the same depreciation on your Skylark. This is pretty typical depreciation and one of the big reasons I like to buy used....The quality and service is poor at best...Quality-wise in IMHO TM is pretty good. Too bad it is not the best, but it is far better than much of its competition.

My guess is if you spend the time to look around Skylark you will find some quality issues too...maybe more. TMs come with gas/electric HW tanks, 3-way refer, recirculating toilet (I know, its a gift and a curse but does it save water!).

I would add that I looked at 20 year old units that were still in good shape. Not may other TTs would be able to make that claim.

This is coming from someone who use to have TM too!

Despite what most people seem to say, I agree that TM's service could be better...frankly much better. However, if you need a part they will get it out the door with blazing speed and frequently without a credit card. The price on parts is cut rate. Many other manufacturers are much harder to get equivalent service.

Still factory work and service could be better. While they know what they are doing I think they cut corners on safety (I would say I was appalled), workmanship is OK when it should be excellent.

The slack I am cutting on them is I don't know how much management has created this. If you work for a company that is always in a cutting mode, morale can be very low. Instead of a worker making sure corners mate and parts are properly and expertly secured, if it looks like it will work maybe good enough.

If you look at the grounds of TM you know the morale has got to be low. I drove to place after hours just to be sure I could find it and judging from how overgrown the landscaping was, I thought it was abandoned.

Those were my impressions when I visited the facilities back in June when I got my TM serviced...