Elkmont owners - can you answer some questions?

[hartsafyre]

:new_newbi Hi all. I've decided on the Elkmont 24, sofa bed, and all that space! I've upgraded from the 2720SL (I WAS going to get) for this model as I plan on being a full-timer for years. I saw one yesterday in NC, and spent quite a bit of time in it, carefully looking at the space and amenities. It's gorgeous, and loads of space and storage.

I hope you don't get tired of the 9-10 questions I have. Your answers will be carefully considered before I order it (a 2012 model). Here goes:

1. At campgrounds with full hook-ups, can the sewer hose be connected directly so as to get rid of the ‘black water’ directly, and not have to dump it at a dump station? The same question for the gray water. This is all new to me, as I’ve only tent camped. (some one said: I'm not sure why you would have to switch out the recirc toilet if you have full hookups?)
2. Which do you prefer: recirculating toilet, or the flush toilet? And why?
3. Has anyone done a front window mod IF it’s not available from the factory? Who had it done for you if not factory. Did it seal correctly? What about a shield for it while towing?
4. My TV is a 2011 Toyota Tacoma, 4x4, v6, 6500 lb max towing capacity, factory installed towing package.
5. How do I find out what the max tongue weight I can put on it?
6. Won’t a WDH and stabilizer/sway control bars add weight to the tongue?
7. Does the Reece Dual Cam take care of BOTH, WDH & sway control? I’m confused as all get out. :confused:
8. Another mod question. The ELKMONT 24, with sofa bed. The dinette bench seat (the long part that faces the door): It has only about 1/3 of the length as storage under the seat, on the right side. It would be easier to access if drawers were installed so as not to lift the cushion and board. Has anyone done this mod? My concern is matching the fabric, and if not that, matching the wood of the cabinets. Wonder if the factory would sell 2 or 3 yards of the fabric to the customer to cover the face of the drawer.
9. Those of you who have solar panels. Are they permanently attached, and does the TM have to be in full sun all the time? If not, what’s your set up if not permanent roof installed?

Thank you in advance.

Maria

PS - I spent a weekend with the Appalachian Trailblazers (2 summers ago?) They kindly, and proudly, showed off their TM's, and were not shy or hesitant to share their knowledge on the how-to's, or to answer all my questions. Thank you guys! The TM has been the only TT that has consistently been at the top of my list. I toyed briefly with the idea of an Aliner, and a Chalet, and though nice and roomy for their size, nothing beats the TM. That's why I'm at this point. Ready to buy! :)

[BOB_STRONG]

Maria,

I was looking at the other posts, and I ran across another post by you regarding some Elkmont questions. If I were you, I would opt for a 2012 model rather than the old Elkmont at the NC dealer. By now, I would say that TrailManor has worked out any of the bugs associated with a new unit. Plus you do not have a trade in, and you are in the drivers seat for prices. The economy isn't great, and dealers are eager to sell. Just lok at wwwRVtrader.com site and put in TrailManor, and you will find some really great prices on Elmonts all over the USA. I am sure you can get a great price on ordering a new 2012. There are 2011 model Elkmonts loaded going for $23 to 24,000.00.

Yes, you can empty the holding tanks directly at your camp site if you have sewer hookup. The holding tanks will last quite a while before you have to empty them. Also, just look on the tow rating section of the TrailManor site for your specs for your Tacoma truck.

I don't know if you realize that they are making a side dinette in the Elkmont 24. It's just like the one in the Elkmont 26 and also in the Elkmont 24 bunkhouse model. If I were ordering a 24 model, I would opt for the side dinette. It makes into a bed real easily,and you can leave your sofa bed as is. If you decide, you can make up the sofa into a bed.

We ordered material directly from the factory to have slip covers made for the side dinette & couch. The price was very reasonable. Keith arranged this for me.

If I were you, I would call the factory, and ask to talk to Keith Hulsey. Tell them that Bob Strong told you to call since you want to buy an Elkmont, but had some concerns and questions. He will be very helpful. We have known Keith since 1992 when he used to go to the RV shows. He will not give you any sales B.S. He was the guy that got all of the changes done for us when we ordered the Elkmont 26. I must have talked to him 4 different times with questions before we ordered. He might be in a meeting or busy, but he will get back to you. If not, just try calling again since he is a busy guy.

[hartsafyre]

:) Bob,

Thank you! This is great. I like the idea of emptying the holding tanks directly at the site, but another question reference that: can the holding tanks be bypassed, I mean can the waste go straight through the tank so there is no need to store, then 'empty' them?

Does your unit have a flush toilet or the recirculating one? Why did you choose one over the other? I don't like the idea of the chemicals, so I'm leaning toward the flush style, but the jury is still out on that.

I'll be checking the RV site and see what's out there. And I certainly will be calling Keith. I'm feeling a whole lot better right about now thanks to you.

Again, thank you.

Maria

[Bigbit]

Maria,

I know you asked Bob, but here are my comments.

1) my Elkmont is set up like most RV's with a flush toilet feeding into a "black" holding tank, and all other sink and shower drains dumping into a separate "grey water" tank. There is no "by-pass" - in both cases, the waste must pass through the tank.

Theoretically, you can leave the grey tank valve open all the time, but this is not advisable. It is definitely NOT advisable to leave the black tank valve open all the time. If you leave the valve open all the time on the black tank, the liquids will drain off and the solids will collect at the bottom of the tank and dry. Over time, this will form the gross but aptly named "poop pyramid" which continues to grow until the tank completely clogs.

The reason you want to keep both valves closed until the black tank is almost full is as follows. By filling the black tank up before opening, when you do open the valve, the high tank level will create enough pressure / flow to suck all the solids out. Then, once the black tank is empty, you switch the hose to the grey tank and empty it; this allows the sewer hose to be flushed of the black matter.

When I looked at my Elkmont, the only ones at the dealership had the flushing toilet. Based on what I've read here, I don't think I'd want a recirculating toilet.

[hartsafyre]

Bigbit,

Thank you for your reply. Bob was the first one to reply to my multiple questions :) and I'm hoping that other Elkmont owners will follow you both with their experiences and knowledge of my soon-to-be Elkmont 24 <woohooooo>.

Thank you so much for this most excellent information on the 'why' of when and how on the black and gray water tanks. I'm keeping a file on all the responses I get for quick access down the road.

I'm also going to try to find any and all Elkmont references here, and absorb it all <g>.

Thank you :)

Maria

[ng2951]

If you are going to dry camp a lot, the recirculating toilet is a plus...

[hartsafyre]

Thank you ng2951. I'm hoping not to have to do any dry camping, and if I should happen to find myself in having no hook-ups, then I'll have to use the camps facilities.

I love this place. You all are a great bunch. I might have to chat you up on your Cowboy Action Shooting club. I enjoy shooting, and maybe I can find some time to get into it :)

Maria

[Bigbit]

hartsafyre,

When you say sofa bed, do you mean that the main bed is a sofa bed, or are you talking about the dining table with the wrap around couch that converts into a second bed.

We have the permanent RV queen bed with the lifters to access the storage underneath. Some have elected for the sofa bed instead, for the extra room it provides. While that does sound attractive, remember that this option, while providing more living space when set up as a sofa, significantly reduces your storage space and commits you to an air mattress and bed put-up / take-down every day. If you're full-timing, this will probably become an issue for you.

I'm sure that some have the sofa bed and will extol its virtues. Just something to think about. If you get it wrong, it's not easy to change.

[hartsafyre]

Bigbit,

Yes. I like the wrap around dinette, and the sofabed layout. Since it's only me, with the cushions removed on the dinette is sufficient bed width/length for me, leaving the sofa as is. I like the extra space it provides for my painting hobby. I may have to get additional padding/cushions for sleeping comfort, but I can live with that. That is very doable since it looks like I will be able to get matching material to cover additional cushions.

Thanks for your insight. I will not dismiss it, and will give what you say some thought, and look at it from all angles.

Thanks.

Maria

[hartsafyre]

Bob, Bigbit, ng...

Folks, I just heard some crushing news from an outfit that does a lot of installs etc (Trick Trucks) about. I went in to see what they had in the way of WDH/stabilizer controls. They told me that EVEN with the wdh/stablizer that I would be all over the road because the truck is NOT long enough, OR WIDE enough! There was a customer said he was a truck driver and always saw trucks being pushed/pulled all over the road by even the slightest of wind. (That took the wind out of my sails).

I specifically bought my 2011 Toyota Tacoma, with the factory installed tow package, and towing capacity of 6500 pounds because it could tow any of the TM's.

I see that one of you has a Pre-Runner, and someone else has an Enclave, and both tow a 24' Elkmont. My Tacoma's specs put it at about the same length, width, wheelbase.

I believe that you all say it's a breeze to tow with my size vehicle (which you have). Tell me these guys are TOTALLY, and COMPLETELY INSANE!

Maria *struggling to keep my cool here ::sigh::*

[cochise]

Bob, Bigbit, ng...

Folks, I just heard some crushing news from an outfit that does a lot of installs etc (Trick Trucks) about. I went in to see what they had in the way of WDH/stabilizer controls. They told me that EVEN with the wdh/stablizer that I would be all over the road because the truck is NOT long enough, OR WIDE enough! There was a customer said he was a truck driver and always saw trucks being pushed/pulled all over the road by even the slightest of wind. (That took the wind out of my sails).

I specifically bought my 2011 Toyota Tacoma, with the factory installed tow package, and towing capacity of 6500 pounds because it could tow any of the TM's.

I see that one of you has a Pre-Runner, and someone else has an Enclave, and both tow a 24' Elkmont. My Tacoma's specs put it at about the same length, width, wheelbase.

I believe that you all say it's a breeze to tow with my size vehicle (which you have). Tell me these guys are TOTALLY, and COMPLETELY INSANE!

Maria *struggling to keep my cool here ::sigh::*

Ok Maria…
So you have probably also heard that the holocaust never happened and that we were never on the moon. Do you really believe that? Of course not.

I used to tow my Elkmont 24 with a 2003 Chevy Silverado, with at 6 cyl engine and the tow package. NEVER had a problem. My Silverado was much like your Tacoma. The way the Elkmont 24 is constructed with the axle to the far rear gives it a LOT of stability. Does that mean that you will never have problems with sway in windy weather? NO. But than again a smart RV/travel trailer owner will not venture out on the road when there is a possibility of inclement weather.

I think that you will be just fine. Remember that you will often meet a “very smart” guy that will tell a horror story about towing or something else for that matter.

So if I were you I would just go camping with your new Elkmont 24. Good luck to you.

[Barb&Tim]

I agree with cochise on this, you should not have stability problems with your setup!

I expect those "experts" have never towed a Trailmanor :)

Tim

[hartsafyre]

<woohooooooo> Thank you B&T, and Cochise (Cochise, I responded to you from my email alert, just to see if/how it was going to show up here, so far it hasn't).

I truly appreciate your comments, they helped to de-stress my distress. I'll be buying a wdh/stabilizer control unit just to make me feel comfortable about towing since I've never towed a thing before. It will be a challenge, and I'm ready for that :)

Thank you.

[Bigbit]

My Enclave has about the same wheelbase as your Tacoma (maybe a little wider) and I have had no major issues with sway. I do use a WDH and sway bars. My Buick also has a 4500lb tow limit, and it pulls the Elkmont fine as long as I follow some self imposed rules, which I have posted previously on this forum. You will know you're towing the Elkmont, but I never feel out of control.

One comment I will make is that speed is important. The faster you go, the more load you put on your engine, tranny, and brakes. I religiously keep my highway speeds to 60 or less and let the rest of the world pass me by!

Your Tacoma should be fine.

[cochise]

My Enclave has about the same wheelbase as your Tacoma (maybe a little wider) and I have had no major issues with sway. I do use a WDH and sway bars. My Buick also has a 4500lb tow limit, and it pulls the Elkmont fine as long as I follow some self imposed rules, which I have posted previously on this forum. You will know you're towing the Elkmont, but I never feel out of control.

One comment I will make is that speed is important. The faster you go, the more load you put on your engine, tranny, and brakes. I religiously keep my highway speeds to 60 or less and let the rest of the world pass me by!

Your Tacoma should be fine.

I fully second this rule. Being in Arizona I travel quite a bit in California, and there the speed limit is 55 mph for trailers. So I keep my general speed at 55 to 60 mph, and that is just fine. And I stay home or at the camp ground if the weather is excessively windy.

On another note to ease your mind: When I purchased my Elkmont, we were told that the trailer weighed under 2500 lb. Not true but in any event we went to Texas and towed the Elkmont all the way back to Arizona, about 1000 miles with a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe. Now that was a task, but we did it. Today I tow a different brand with a 2007 Ford F 150 XLT V8 Triton with a full tow package. Had TM gotten Mr. Eichhoff at the wheel a little earlier I would still have been towing my Elkmont 24. He is the best thing that has happened to TM in years.

[brulaz]

We've put many miles in our 2009 Tacoma 4x4 Double Cab with the 6500# tow package and our Elkmont 24. It has served us well.

The max tongue weight should be listed on your hitch. Ours says 650#.

I do not use any sway control because the Tacoma has enough wheelbase, and the Elkmont 24 puts around 620# on the hitch. This is quite high, over 15% of our loaded trailer weight. If you look at the trailer, you'll see that the wheels are set pretty far back. That's why the high tongue weight.

This high a tongue weight helps get rid of any potential sway. But it created another one for us. We also wanted to carry 2 kayaks, bicycles and other junk in the truck. So we added a cap and all this stuff only to discover that with the trailer hitched up, we exceeded the Tacoma's GVWR by 350-600#. And a WDH is absolutely necessary as otherwise the rear GAWR would be badly exceed as well.

IOW, while the Tacoma with tow package is spec'ed to haul a 6500# trailer, it has *only* a half-ton (1151#) payload. Once you subtract 620# tongue weight, there's only 531# left for you, passengers, and any gear.

The Tacoma tows the trailer weight well, but it is only a V6 gasser with relatively low torque at highway speeds and rpms. As a result, on the flats or slightly rolling highways, you will get shifting from 5th to 4th or to an intermediate unlocked Torque Converter state. All this is normal. The engine and transmission handle it well. But over long trips, depending upon the terrain, you may find this frequent shifting a bit tiring.


We recently decided to upgrade to full-size pickup primarily because of the GVWR problem.

[cochise]

We've put many miles in our 2009 Tacoma 4x4 Double Cab with the 6500# tow package and our Elkmont 24. It has served us well.


The Tacoma tows the trailer weight well, but it is only a V6 gasser with relatively low torque at highway speeds and rpms. As a result, on the flats or slightly rolling highways, you will get shifting from 5th to 4th or to an intermediate unlocked Torque Converter state. All this is normal. The engine and transmission handle it well. But over long trips, depending upon the terrain, you may find this frequent shifting a bit tiring.


We recently decided to upgrade to full-size pickup primarily because of the GVWR problem.

I don't know about the Tacoma, but my old Silverado had the "tow button" at the end of the shift lever. When that was activated the shift points changed and the overdrive was locked out. So I did not have a lot of unnecessary shifting. And I do believe the wheel base is the same as the Tacoma (118”). When I bought my Lance trailer we were too close to the tow limit, which is why I got the Ford F 150 with the V8, tow package and a tow limit of 9500 lb. It has the same transmission tow button on the end of the lever. It works really well for us, except the Lance is a piece of crap. The Elkmont had a 5” thick floor this one has 2”. And there are lots more, I miss the simplicity of the Elkmont but not the problems I had with it.

[brulaz]

I don't know about the Tacoma, but my old Silverado had the "tow button" at the end of the shift lever. When that was activated the shift points changed and the overdrive was locked out. So I did not have a lot of unnecessary shifting.

The Tacoma doesn't have a Tow/Haul mode but you can manually force it 4th gear. We did this when the shifting became too irritating. But 4th at highway speeds is quite a bit noisier than 5th, so it's a trade-off.

If all we were doing was occasional trips, not too long, we would have kept the Tacoma, and lived with the over weight and bit of noise. It really is a great truck otherwise. But last year we towed 15,000 miles and plan on towing to Florida every winter with all our gear, so ... it's for sale. Or maybe one of the kids will take it over (I hate to see it leave the family; funny how you get attached to these things).

[Bigbit]

My Enclave has the tow mode button too to change the shift points, and we don't experience any hunting.

[Vic Mendoza]

brulaz -

The Trailmanor brochure states that the Elkmont 24 has a base hitch weight of 297lbs. How do you get to 620# - what am i missing?

Elkmont 24 - Approximate Base Dry Weight 2498 lbs.
Base Hitch Weight 297 lbs.
Approx. Dry Weight w/Value Package 3000 lbs.


Thanks

[brulaz]

The Trailmanor brochure states that the Elkmont 24 has a base hitch weight of 297lbs. How do you get to 620# - what am i missing?

Elkmont 24 - Approximate Base Dry Weight 2498 lbs.
Base Hitch Weight 297 lbs.
Approx. Dry Weight w/Value Package 3000 lbs.


Base weights are with zero options and no other loads.
The approx dry weight with value package of 3000# is closer to reality.
Our typical loaded weight is closer to 3800#. So we must have added about 800# of stuff to the trailer.

Anyway, let's say the tongue weight with value package is more like 350#.

Our hitch weight includes two full 40# propane tanks right up on the tongue. So that's 430# total.
(EDIT: Or is that a total of 40# propane, I forget. Adjust accordingly)

Also there's lot's of storage space under the bed and in the front closets that goes equally to the tongue as to the trailer axle. I would say we put 300# in there easily, so half of that is another 150# on the tongue or 580# total on the tongue.

And then there's the remaining 400# of food, tools, books, computers and stuff that gets distributed further back in the trailer, of which 40# must end up on the tongue, making 620# total on the tongue.

All this is pretty rough, but it's not hard to do. Of the 800# we've added to the trailer, roughly 280# has ended up on the tongue.

And by the way, 3800# - 620# is 3180#, well below the Trailer's GAWR, so we've never had problems there. Just problems with the Tacoma's weight ratings.

[brulaz]

Oh, and more specifically. I've measured all my TV and trailer weights 3 different times at 3 different CAT scales, and have got close 620# tongue weight each time.

[Vic Mendoza]

brulaz -

This is discouraging! I was counting on the lighter tongue weight. So if I understand correctly, I would have but two choices. Buy a full size truck or use a weight distributing hitch??

Thanks again for taking the time to clarify.

[brulaz]

This is discouraging! I was counting on the lighter tongue weight. So if I understand correctly, I would have but two choices. Buy a full size truck or use a weight distributing hitch??

With something like the Tacoma (1100# payload) I definitely needed a weight distribution hitch. Any time you put 620# behind the rear axle of a vehicle you're going to be taking weight off of the front axle. It may not be so significant with the heavier F150 (2000# payload), but I'm still using a WDH.

Even if you could get your tongue weight down to 350#, a WDH would probably be a good idea with the Tacoma. It's really only the real BIG heavy duty trucks that can get away with not having one IMHO.

And maybe you can manage your trailer weight, tongue weight and TV payload better than we can. We carry lots of stuff!

And also we travel a lot, so I don't want to go over any of the weight specs. If I was just going a few hundred miles a few weekends a year, I would be less concerned.

It really is a function of the Elkmont 24's design. That axle is pushed way back putting lots of the weight on the tongue. I doubt that the dual axle Elkmont 26 or the shorter Elkmont 22 have the same high % of GVW on the tongue.

[cochise]

When I first got our Elkont 24, I took it to the scales. It has a GVWR of 4230 lb, and on the scale it weighed in at 3640 without any of our stuff in it. The tongue weight was measured to be 640 lb. Texas RV that sold us the Elkmont were smart enough to “recommend” a WDH, and that was first mounted on the Hyundai Santa Fe which had a tow limit of 3500 lb and tongue weight of 350 lb, but they knew that but chose not to say anything about it to us. We did not know the truth about the Elkmont at that time. After the trip to the scales we got the Silverado 6 cyl with the tow package and the tow/haul. We used it with the WDH and it worked great, but than we did not bring a lot of stuff that others do. I did have a 70 lb generator on the truck, but right behind the cab and other than that only a tool box, a grill and some pieces of wood for the stabilizers.

But yes it is very deceiving when the weight is said to be less than 2500 lb (2498 in the very color full brochures and an aprx. Weight on the tongue of 320 lb). But we all know that numbers are SO easy to manipulate.

[hartsafyre]

Thank you all for taking time to respond. There is so much to absorb and sort out. If you have more to share, and want to, I'm reading every word and doing my studying.

Oooooooo, I just thought of something! I'll have to store it, and can't at my house, and it won't fit in a regular garage. Storage will be outdoors, not even under roof ::sigh:: - what do you folks (that have to store outside) do? What type of cover? What about protecting the tires from UVA/UVB rays. Do the 'special' covers advertised really work?

(I love this place! :)

Maria
2011 Toyota Tacoma, factory tow package

[brulaz]

Ours stays outside. Just like our cars. But then I rarely wash the thing also, so maybe that puts it in perspective. OK, I'll be honest, I've never washed it.

Also our trailer has never been stored where it gets snowed on. I think I would cover it then to keep snow from building up on the roof.

My guess is that the tires will have to replaced in 5-6 years irrespective of whether they are covered.

[Bigbit]

I can't store mine in my driveway due to a city ordinance. Thus it is stored at the local RV storage for $64 per month. The other issue with this is that there is no power receptacle in the storage facility, so if left parked for any period of time, the battery will drain due to small parasitic loads like the CO detector and radio face plate. I solved this by installing a kill switch on the battery so that there is no power drain at all.

When I am going to camp, I stop by the storage yard the night before, switch on the battery, fire up the fridge on propane, and she's nice and cold by the next afternoon when we're ready to go!