ST Tire Manufacturers: Any Difference?

[Philip]

Hello Again Folks,

I am just about ready to buy new 15" tires for my 2008, 2720 TM (upgrade from 14" tires). I have purchased the required lift kit from the factory to make this upgrade. All this work is being done, as many others have done, to hopefully reduce the chance of blowouts.

Before I purchase the tires I had a couple questions about the tire selection. I am sure this has been discussed in times past but I would appreciate the forums knowledge repated if possible. Here goes:

1. I have focused on looking at 225/75 - 15" ST tires from Goodyear and Maxxis. As far as I can find out the Goodyear & Maxxis tires come in 6 & 8 ply designs which determine the load carrying capacity. I plan to go with the higher load carrying 8 ply design. Both manufacturers have the same max. capacity(2540 lbs.) at max. pressure(65 PSI). Additionaly the Maxxis has a 10 ply design with a max. capacity of 2830 lbs. at a max pressure of 80 PSI. The cost of the 10 ply Maxxis is only $10 more($105) than the 8 ply. At last(LOL) my question is: Is there any disadvantage to having a higher capacity(10 ply) tire even though you don't really need that capacity? I am of the opinion that a higher margine of excess capacity would result in a lower duty cycle which would reduce the chances of a failure. Opinions are cheap and someone may know of facts that may tell me otherwise. I estimate my TM to be about 3600 lbs fully loaded.

2. I have only looked closely at Goodyear & Maxxis ST tire brands. Does anyone know if one brand of tire is of better overall quality than another? I have seen others on this forum talk about other brands - Kumho, Carlise, Cooper, etc. Is one brand better than another?

I plan to do everything I can think of to reduce my chance of tire failures including steel valve stems.

As always any help from forum members is appreciated.

Take care,

Phil Friess

TV - 2005 Toyota 4Runner with factory tow package
TM - 2008; 2720
Prodigy brake controller
EZ WDH.

[Scott O]

Are you sure your '08 2720 needs a lift kit? Ours came with the lift and the 15" wheels fit just fine. I understand the lift came standard sometime during the '06 model year.

[scrubjaysnest]

Phil,
My gut would be go with the 10 ply but why don't you pm wmtire as that his business.

[Wavery]

The problem with tire selection is that tire manufacturers seem to go in cycles. It seems that the tire manufacturer that was popular a few years ago falls into the unpopular set due to bad reviews.

I'm sure that there are many poorly built tires out there but I am of the opinion that a lot of people jump on the band-wagon at the same time, then 5 to 6-years later those tires all start failing at once due to age. People start bad-mouthing the manufacturer all at once, then some other manufacturer gets all that business.

I recently bought Maxxis tires for my '04 TM but there is no way that I would recommend them to anyone as being "the best choice". I simply won't know for another 4-5 years whether they are a good choice. By that time, the Maxxis tires may have fallen from grace and some other manufacturer will be there to pick up that business. I'll be the 1st one to admit that I chose the Maxxis because everyone else seemed to be buying them :rolleyes: I also couldn't find a lot of bad reviews on them (just a few)..

The Marathons that I took off of my '98 TM were 8-years-old. My first instinct was to buy another set of Marathons because those lasted so long without issue. I found out that Marathons had fallen from grace and a lot of people were trashing them. :new_Eyecr

[Philip]

Are you sure your '08 2720 needs a lift kit? Ours came with the lift and the 15" wheels fit just fine. I understand the lift came standard sometime during the '06 model year.

Scott,

I did talk with the TM factory and they said I would need the lift.

The TM is presently in my sons garage a fair drive from me. I will check it out when I get the chance to see if it looks as if it has the lift.

What does the lift spacer look like on your TM? Just a steel plate? About how thick is the spacer?

Take care,

Phil

[ShrimpBurrito]

Phil -

You can see a picture of my lift kit from the factory in post #2 of this thread:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8732

But given your 2008 model TM, you may not have that but still have a lifted frame due to the spindle arms on the axle having a different angle. If you read through that thread you can read some folks' ground-to-frame measurements. Of course, that doesn't mean you still can't add the lift kit. It just means if you do, it might be higher than an older TM with the lift kit due to the different axle.

Dave

[gocntry]

Are you sure your '08 2720 needs a lift kit? Ours came with the lift and the 15" wheels fit just fine. I understand the lift came standard sometime during the '06 model year.

15" Tires Fit My 2008 2720 Also (had 14" from the factory). Mine Had The 2" Lift Built Into The Axle Itself, Didn't Need The Blocks.

[Bill]

Philip -

We have discussed a different answer to the "Do I need a lift kit?" question.

Take a look at post number 8 here
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7306

or post #7 here
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10326

Bill

[pauloh]

Like Philip, I've also been looking (online only in my case) this winter for a new set of tires (incl. spare) for my TM. I am leaning toward Maxxis (M8008 Trailer Tire) based on reading here and elsewhere. I finally found the "specs" chart at maxxis.com at this specific link (I copied their chart below the link, hope it reads OK, if not, try the link):
http://www.maxxis.com/Industrial/Trailer/M8008-ST-Radial.aspx

Part, Size, Ply, Diameter, Width, Max Load, Max PSI, Tread Depth Side Wall type
TL15712000 225/75R15 6 28.3 8.90 2,150 50 9/32 BSW
TL15710000 225/75R15 8 28.3 8.90 2,540 65 9/32 BSW
TL15711000 225/75R15 8 28.3 8.90 2,540 65 9/32 OWL
TL15713000 225/75R15 10 28.3 8.90 2,830 80 9/32 BSW

(Google says: BSW means "black sidewall" OWL means "outline white lettering". I did not know that.)

Notice they don't have a "D" or "E" rating anywhere on this chart, but this retail site does:
http://www.gripston.com/tires/TL15713000
It says the Maxxis "D" tire handles 2450 lbs. ($119. each) while the "E" tire handles up to 2830 lbs ($136. each) and the part numbers for their D & E tires correspond to the Maxxis chart for #2 and #4 in the chart. (These are higher prices than what Philip was quoted, but the price includes shipping...wonder where Philip got his prices?)

These prices are lower than what is shown at discounttire.com for Maxxis tires, "D" and "E" rated, at $134. and $157. respectively. However I've never heard of Gripston and I do know of Discount Tire (might even be able to pick up the tires at one of their stores in Denver sometime, 6 hours from here). DT asks site visitors to let them know of lower prices at other vendors, maybe they'll match if I email or call them this week.

I'm tentatively planning to buy online, have them shipped to my rural location, check those date codes, and have a local shop put them on the rims with those steel valve stems.

So...whatya think? 8-ply "D" or those 10-ply "E"? Is there any problem with 80lbs. of air in the TM 15-inch rims? E is probably going to give a little rougher ride at 80lbs, did I read somewhere that some folks run them at lower pressure? Maybe D will do since in my paranoia I'll probably inspect them every 10 miles...once I finally get on the road (for the first time) with my TM this spring!

[Bill]

I'm tentatively planning to buy online, have them shipped to my rural location, check those date codes, and have a local shop put them on the rims with those steel valve stems.And balance them!

Bill

[Harry Womack]

I run the Maxxis 10 ply tires at 70 psi. They do not look low like the load range D tires did.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Is there any problem with 80lbs. of air in the TM 15-inch rims? E is probably going to give a little rougher ride at 80lbs, did I read somewhere that some folks run them at lower pressure?

Yes, there is a problem. Running with 80 psi will shake everything in your TM loose -- screws, brackets, toilet seat, etc. Been there, done that, won't do it again. While they are rated for a max pressure of 80 psi, I run load range E tires and keep them at ~65 psi. So far, that has worked well, so I am going to keep doing that. I also plan on changing my tires at 3 years, regardless of wear.

Dave

[TravlinOn]

Just a comment on the value of posts in which different manufacturers are hailed or hung, I did a lot of online checking around before buying my new tires and it seems that what is really important is not so much who made the tire as it is how was the tire treated in use by the buyer. No tires last long if:
1. Driven over potholes and/or sharp debris in the road.
2. Driven under-inflated.
3. Not balanced.
4. Left without movement for months on end (outside or inside storage doesn't change this).
5. Driven in desert conditions of heat.
6. Driven with the TM overweight for tire specifications.
7. Stored on pavement directly and/or in Sun without cover.
8. Store sold tire that was out of date already.

Other factors, of course, apply, but this is probably enough to indicate that any poster who says a particular manufacturer is bad, or good, should be required to swear that they followed all good habits in the treatment of the tire. Just my thoughts and I am not saying that there really aren't some bad tires being manufactured. :)

[TMMiniVan]

Thanks all - I'm joining in this thread as we just bought our lift kid for our 2004 2720 and are about to install 15" wheels. The service place says our current tires are in fine condition but we are tired of the 2-3 hours it requires to move it up/down the driveway (see my earlier thread) and are upgrading to help with that plus help prevent blowouts. The lift kit was surprisingly cheap but now we need to buy the tires and wheels and to get it all installed. We are looking forward to our first trip in a few weeks :) The TM is new to us so we are excited :)

-Amy

[pauloh]

And I just want to thank all who have thoughtfully replied about tire selection and best practices in using them on the TM. I'll order the "E" Maxxis, and report back here as I gain experience with them. Now on to the other TM projects so we can hit the road once all this snow melts!

[Philip]

Like Philip, I've also been looking (online only in my case) this winter for a new set of tires (incl. spare) for my TM. I am leaning toward Maxxis (M8008 Trailer Tire) based on reading here and elsewhere. I finally found the "specs" chart at maxxis.com at this specific link (I copied their chart below the link, hope it reads OK, if not, try the link):
http://www.maxxis.com/Industrial/Trailer/M8008-ST-Radial.aspx

Part, Size, Ply, Diameter, Width, Max Load, Max PSI, Tread Depth Side Wall type
TL15712000 225/75R15 6 28.3 8.90 2,150 50 9/32 BSW
TL15710000 225/75R15 8 28.3 8.90 2,540 65 9/32 BSW
TL15711000 225/75R15 8 28.3 8.90 2,540 65 9/32 OWL
TL15713000 225/75R15 10 28.3 8.90 2,830 80 9/32 BSW

(Google says: BSW means "black sidewall" OWL means "outline white lettering". I did not know that.)

Notice they don't have a "D" or "E" rating anywhere on this chart, but this retail site does:
http://www.gripston.com/tires/TL15713000
It says the Maxxis "D" tire handles 2450 lbs. ($119. each) while the "E" tire handles up to 2830 lbs ($136. each) and the part numbers for their D & E tires correspond to the Maxxis chart for #2 and #4 in the chart. (These are higher prices than what Philip was quoted, but the price includes shipping...wonder where Philip got his prices?)

These prices are lower than what is shown at discounttire.com for Maxxis tires, "D" and "E" rated, at $134. and $157. respectively. However I've never heard of Gripston and I do know of Discount Tire (might even be able to pick up the tires at one of their stores in Denver sometime, 6 hours from here). DT asks site visitors to let them know of lower prices at other vendors, maybe they'll match if I email or call them this week.

I'm tentatively planning to buy online, have them shipped to my rural location, check those date codes, and have a local shop put them on the rims with those steel valve stems.

So...whatya think? 8-ply "D" or those 10-ply "E"? Is there any problem with 80lbs. of air in the TM 15-inch rims? E is probably going to give a little rougher ride at 80lbs, did I read somewhere that some folks run them at lower pressure? Maybe D will do since in my paranoia I'll probably inspect them every 10 miles...once I finally get on the road (for the first time) with my TM this spring!

Paul,

The price I got for Maxxis is from a local supplier. I was not able to find a better price online. Also, the more I thought about it, I felt that even if I did order online and the tires shipped were old it may be a problem shipping them back. I can check the age at the local shop before I buy them.

With the help of forum members information I have also been investigating whether to go with a "D" or "E" load range. I did talk with a local Goodyear dealer(for what it is worth) as to his recommendations. He was quite adamant that if you go with a higher load rating you do realize a further reduction in failure possibility. He was also adamant that you should run the tires at very close to max pressure, no matter what load range you chose, since this is best for the tire durability. He conceded that you could reduce the pressure by perhaps 10PSI below the max pressure if you still remain well above your load requirements. He said this is not the best thing to do but if you want a bit softer ride you could do this. I was concerned about the hard ride at 80PSI with an "E" load rating. I also went onto the Carlisle Tire website and they also say that you should also always run the tire at the max pressure.

So, where am I now. I am leaning toward getting a "D"load rated tire and running it at virtually max. pressure. Actually, if you look at the load rating of a "E" rated tire at 70PSI it is only 80 lbs more than a "D" rated tire at its max. pressure of 65PSI. Since my TM is approx. 3500 - 3600lb loaded, I feel comfortable with the 2450 load capacity of a "D" rated tire. 80 PSI for a "E" rated tire just seems like a rock hard ride!

I am still not sure of the brand as yet. Perhaps any of the major brands will be fine at this margin of safety.

Take care and happy trails,

Phil

[Philip]

Phil -

You can see a picture of my lift kit from the factory in post #2 of this thread:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8732

But given your 2008 model TM, you may not have that but still have a lifted frame due to the spindle arms on the axle having a different angle. If you read through that thread you can read some folks' ground-to-frame measurements. Of course, that doesn't mean you still can't add the lift kit. It just means if you do, it might be higher than an older TM with the lift kit due to the different axle.

Dave

Dave,

Thank you for leading me to your picture of the lift kit installed. I know my TM does not have anything that looks like that.

I will have to check to see if my 2008 2720 TM has the higher lift suspension that Bill and others have talked about. Will check wheel well clearance as Bill suggested.

Thanks to you and all the forum members for the help.

Take care,

Phil

[pauloh]

An update to earlier posts here, which may assist someone pondering new tires: I'm in a rural area far from the big tire stores, so chose to order my tires online at discounttiredirect.com (the online version of Discount Tire, a national chain). They seemed to have the best prices with free shipping. I ordered the Maxxis 225/75 - 15" ST "E" range tire ($121. each, I ordered 3 to include my spare). Got a call next morning from a nice service manager (who said he was in Phoenix) explaining they did not have that tire in stock, trying to get me to order "D" rated they had in stock, but offering to call (either Maxxis or his supplier, I'm not sure which) to see how long it would take to get the "E". This I hope he did, before he emailed me the next day that they weren't currently available and that there was no information about when they would be again; did I want to backorder "E" tires or get the "D" tires now. I had been waffling on whether to order the "D" or "E" range anyway (see previous discussions), so I just ordered the "D" instead (these were also cheaper at $108. each, delivered by UPS). Anxious to get them on the TM and move on...

FYI, the tires are not boxed/bagged or anything, just 1 loose tire and the other 2 tied together with plastic straps, shipping labels stuck on them. (UPS man baffled why I only ordered 3 tires for my NTM 2005 Toyota 4Runner. I pointed to TM.) The tires look good, each one has a date code of 5109, which I decipher to mean they were made in the 51st week (late December) of 2009, so about 15 months old. I had asked the service mgr. about the issue of "old tires"--he stated that Discount Tire has so much sales turnover on tires, they never ship anything older than 18 months from manufacture, and to return the tires if I was unhappy for any reason. I'm OK with tires of this age, they sure look "fresh" for over a year old.

So now I'll take off my old TM tires/rims, go down to the local service station and get them changed to the new tires adding the steel valve stems, put on the ebay tire pressure monitors I just bought (Secutire wireless tire pressure monitors, 4 for about $25.), http://tinyurl.com/4dvwnw5 , get the tires balanced, put them on the TM, and go for a test drive (once that last snow drift between the TM and the road melts down). Hope I don't drive over a nail in the first mile.

[Wavery]

Paul,


I was concerned about the hard ride at 80PSI with an "E" load rating. I also went onto the Carlisle Tire website and they also say that you should also always run the tire at the max pressure.

So, where am I now. I am leaning toward getting a "D"load rated tire and running it at virtually max. pressure. Actually, if you look at the load rating of a "E" rated tire at 70PSI it is only 80 lbs more than a "D" rated tire at its max. pressure of 65PSI. Since my TM is approx. 3500 - 3600lb loaded, I feel comfortable with the 2450 load capacity of a "D" rated tire. 80 PSI for a "E" rated tire just seems like a rock hard ride!



Phil
Phil,


I went through the same process that you did. I figured that I was upgrading from tires that were rated @ 1875# each (which is what comes from the factory). I figured that going with a 35% increase in capacity was a sufficient margin to make me feel comfortable with the tires under any conditions that I will ever use them in.

The Maxxis that I purchased from "Just Tires" had a date code of 2810. They ordered them from a local warehouse that had plenty of the "D" or "E" tires in stock (at that time).

According to the Maxxis manufacturer, I could run my tires @ 50PSI. I run them @ 60PSI and I feel comfortable there. After-all, I was running 50PSI on the lower rated tires that I took off and that pressure supported the trailer just fine. I would think that 60-65PSI in "E" rated tires would be more than enough too but to each his own.

My thinking is that if the tire pressure is too high for the load, one may experience uneven tire wear in the center of the tire tread.

[Philip]

Phil,

Wayne,

I am thinking much like you. I will get and "D" rated tire and probably run it at 60-65 PSI. Plan to keep an eye on center tread wear

I just haven't quite decided to get Maxxis or Goodyear brand. I guess there is probably no difference.

Planning a trip to the northern parks and Canada this summer for ~3 months.

Happy trails,

Phil

2008 2720 TM - soon with 15" wheels!
2005 Toyota 4Runner, V8 TV

I went through the same process that you did. I figured that I was upgrading from tires that were rated @ 1875# each (which is what comes from the factory). I figured that going with a 35% increase in capacity was a sufficient margin to make me feel comfortable with the tires under any conditions that I will ever use them in.

The Maxxis that I purchased from "Just Tires" had a date code of 2810. They ordered them from a local warehouse that had plenty of the "D" or "E" tires in stock (at that time).

According to the Maxxis manufacturer, I could run my tires @ 50PSI. I run them @ 60PSI and I feel comfortable there. After-all, I was running 50PSI on the lower rated tires that I took off and that pressure supported the trailer just fine. I would think that 60-65PSI in "E" rated tires would be more than enough too but to each his own.

My thinking is that if the tire pressure is too high for the load, one may experience uneven tire wear in the center of the tire tread.

[tgpmd1]

Phil,


I went through the same process that you did. I figured that I was upgrading from tires that were rated @ 1875# each (which is what comes from the factory). I figured that going with a 35% increase in capacity was a sufficient margin to make me feel comfortable with the tires under any conditions that I will ever use them in.

The Maxxis that I purchased from "Just Tires" had a date code of 2810. They ordered them from a local warehouse that had plenty of the "D" or "E" tires in stock (at that time).

According to the Maxxis manufacturer, I could run my tires @ 50PSI. I run them @ 60PSI and I feel comfortable there. After-all, I was running 50PSI on the lower rated tires that I took off and that pressure supported the trailer just fine. I would think that 60-65PSI in "E" rated tires would be more than enough too but to each his own.

My thinking is that if the tire pressure is too high for the load, one may experience uneven tire wear in the center of the tire tread.

I called my Just Tires place and he said I should go with a Carlisle premounted on 15 wheels. They have a D load. He said that they run $204 each, $16.95 each balancing and $3.50 each for rubber stems and he does not recommend metal stems since they tend to leak. He said if I bought metal valve stems, he would do it, but doesn't like to do that. Does that seem a fair price? He does not have in stock and I would have to preorder. I asked about other makes like Maxxis, but he said the Carlisle is what he could get. I looked online for wheels, but the shipping each almost the price of the wheel. I called around, but having a hard time finding around here or I'm not asking the right questions. I have a call into Tires Plus, but the person at the counter said they would have to research into this. Anyone have a site they would like to share that they ordered their tires and wheels from lately?

I'm bummed since my RV repair place recommended NOT going to a 15' tire. They said I would be asking for trouble with the small space in the wheel well and they would not install the lift kit or order the rims or tires. They seems to do a fine job with my TV and inspecting the TM for state inspection (required out here).

Any advice?

[tgpmd1]

O.K., the Tires Plus guy called back and said do you want bias or radial tires. I googled, but thought I'd ask what works best on a TM. Does it matter?

Thanks!

[wmtire]

Tgpmd1, do you have another tire place that you trust, so you can get a second opinion............which I really believe will do you good.

[tgpmd1]

No, I've never bought wheels before and Costco does all of our tires. Here around D.C., it's hard to trust anyone...

I just rec'd a quote from Discount Tire Direct for 3-15" wheels, mounted with 3-225/75 15 ST D Carlisle tires (radial), including high pressure stems (steel) and balancing. Price includes delivery. Why won't anyone quote any other brand of tire? Anyone have experience with Carlisle tires?

[Bill]

Tgpmd1, do you have another tire place that you trust, so you can get a second opinion............which I really believe will do you good.
Bobby -

What a very polite way to say what I was going to say, though in much rougher terms! You are always the gentleman.

Bill

[scrubjaysnest]

No, I've never bought wheels before and Costco does all of our tires. Here around D.C., it's hard to trust anyone...

I just rec'd a quote from Discount Tire Direct for 3-15" wheels, mounted with 3-225/75 15 ST D Carlisle tires (radial), including high pressure stems (steel) and balancing. Price includes delivery. Why won't anyone quote any other brand of tire? Anyone have experience with Carlisle tires?
We have used the Carlisle trailer tires over the years with no problems, other than a suspected axle problem on our pop up we took to Alaska last year.
I would check around like wmtire suggested though.

[ELM-JLM]

I recently bought 4 used 15" wheels from a friend for $25.00 each! Through another friend from back in my working days at Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. I was able to purchase new Maxxis 225/75r15 LR D tires for $80.00 each (wholesale cost + 10%)! I bought 4, as we plan some long distance trips! The Carlisle tire in the same size and load range would have been $ 70.00 each! I know retail is up there but over $200.00 per T&W is a bit rediculous, IMHO! Or are you buying Alloy Wheels?

Come to West Central Florida and I can get you all the tires you need at Wholesale! No Joke!!!!:p

[ELM-JLM]

Don't let anyone talk you out of upgrading to 15"! They handle great and the fit is perfect!

[tgpmd1]

Don't let anyone talk you out of upgrading to 15"! They handle great and the fit is perfect!

Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I think the guys at the truck/RV shop don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe because I'm not a guy, that makes them the 'expert'. I'm fixed on adding the lift kit to my TM.

Asked the DH if he had any idea on where to buy tires as someone suggested and the one experience he had a few years ago with getting a nail hole plugged was not good. He left the nail in to show where the leak was at. $25 and a few hours to fix a tire that he took off and brought it soured his trust in tire shops. Also, you won't believe the price of gas out here. We always find cheaper gas the farther we travel from D.C. We love getting away from the city where everything is a bit more laid back than at home.

[OneMoBear]

So, just wanted to thank all of you for one more journey down the money trail. :p This thread got us thinking that maybe we should be worrying about the original tires on our 2006 more than buying a dehumidifier as we prepare for our trip to Oregon. We have an appointment at The Car Show on Wednesday for the lift kit. Our model is spot welded and we just want to make sure it is done right. It would so embarrassing to be driving down the road just towing the chassis. 15" wheels and tires to follow . . .

Malinda

[wmtire]

Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I think the guys at the truck/RV shop don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe because I'm not a guy, that makes them the 'expert'. I'm fixed on adding the lift kit to my TM.

Asked the DH if he had any idea on where to buy tires as someone suggested and the one experience he had a few years ago with getting a nail hole plugged was not good. He left the nail in to show where the leak was at. $25 and a few hours to fix a tire that he took off and brought it soured his trust in tire shops. Also, you won't believe the price of gas out here. We always find cheaper gas the farther we travel from D.C. We love getting away from the city where everything is a bit more laid back than at home.

Another possible avenue, is to order the tires on the wheels, already mounted and balanced. They would show up at your door complete, and all you have to do is bolt them on. Discount Tire Direct offers this, as well as the Maxxis and Goodyear tires. Personally, I have never been a Carlisle trailer tire fan.

You can check their weblink out below, but I would call their number to see about the wheels. If you do purchase from them, explain that you want metal clamp-in style stems ( TR-416 is the stem number) installed in the wheels. (pic below)

http://www.myerstiresupply.com/shop/images/large/21583-tr416-clamp-in-tubeless-metal-tire-valve_large.jpg

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/home.do

[pauloh]

If you do purchase from them, explain that you want metal clamp-in style stems ( TR-416 is the stem number) installed in the wheels.

Is there any reason you recommend that particular metal valve stem? Just wondering. I'm having my new tires mounted soon (on the original TM 15-inch rims) and was going to have the local garage doing it use steel valve stems (they said they have them but I know know what brand/length right now). I googled the TR-416 and see them offered at several vendors, along with many other types. If these work best I'll order them and hand over to the tire shop with my tires and rims. I plan to install tire pressure monitors on the stems (SecuTire) also...am assuming I wouldn't want real long stems with the TPM out on the end.

[wmtire]

was going to have the local garage doing it use steel valve stems (they said they have them but I know know what brand/length right now). I googled the TR-416 and see them offered at several vendors, along with many other types. If these work best I'll order them and hand over to the tire shop with my tires and rims. I plan to install tire pressure monitors on the stems (SecuTire) also...am assuming I wouldn't want real long stems with the TPM out on the end.


It's all in the terminology used. You really have to watch different places, as they don't actually use the correct term (or understand you, when you use the correct term).

That's just a standard industry stem number and is irregardless of brand name. Most likely the ones you were going to get from your garage would be the TR-416 anyway.......if they were going to use a clamp-in type stem (which is the kind that are bolted in with a nut)

Some shops may refer to a metal stem, as a snap-in (not the correct clamp-in stem) high pressure stem, pic below. These are industry stamped as TR600HP

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00nBTEtPIaVKkz/High-Pressure-Tubeless-Snap-in-Type-Tire-Valve-TR-600HP-.jpg

They also may refer to what we call enkei stems as a metal stem.

That is the reason I hate to just say metal stems, here in the forums. It can lead to confusion, as it already does with the professionals. You technically want a metal 'clamp-in' stem (TR-416 is the most common for our purpose). They also make shorter and longer versions of this type of clamp in valve stem which will have a different TR number. You can also use the shorter TR-416B since you are using attached tire pressure sensors, and be just as good.

You tell them that you want a TR-416, and it is hard for them to say they misunderstood what you wanted. Anyone in the tire business should be able to look that one up, even if they aren't properly knowledgeable about it.

Here is a chart showing just some of the clamp-in type valve stems. Note the industry TR numbers, which identify the type.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00eBkQtOyIrqbM/Tire-Valves-TR416-TR501CR-TR33E-TR416B-.jpg

P.S. If you just want some useless information to take up space in your brain, the rubber snap-in valve stem that comes standard on our trailmanors is a TR-413 (if you want to look it up). LOL

[OneMoBear]

An update to earlier posts here, which may assist someone pondering new tires: I'm in a rural area far from the big tire stores, so chose to order my tires online at discounttiredirect.com (the online version of Discount Tire, a national chain). They seemed to have the best prices with free shipping. I ordered the Maxxis 225/75 - 15" ST "E" range tire ($121. each, I ordered 3 to include my spare). Got a call next morning from a nice service manager (who said he was in Phoenix) explaining they did not have that tire in stock, trying to get me to order "D" rated they had in stock, but offering to call (either Maxxis or his supplier, I'm not sure which) to see how long it would take to get the "E". This I hope he did, before he emailed me the next day that they weren't currently available and that there was no information about when they would be again; did I want to backorder "E" tires or get the "D" tires now. I had been waffling on whether to order the "D" or "E" range anyway (see previous discussions), so I just ordered the "D" instead (these were also cheaper at $108. each, delivered by UPS). Anxious to get them on the TM and move on...

FYI, the tires are not boxed/bagged or anything, just 1 loose tire and the other 2 tied together with plastic straps, shipping labels stuck on them. (UPS man baffled why I only ordered 3 tires for my NTM 2005 Toyota 4Runner. I pointed to TM.) The tires look good, each one has a date code of 5109, which I decipher to mean they were made in the 51st week (late December) of 2009, so about 15 months old. I had asked the service mgr. about the issue of "old tires"--he stated that Discount Tire has so much sales turnover on tires, they never ship anything older than 18 months from manufacture, and to return the tires if I was unhappy for any reason. I'm OK with tires of this age, they sure look "fresh" for over a year old.

So now I'll take off my old TM tires/rims, go down to the local service station and get them changed to the new tires adding the steel valve stems, put on the ebay tire pressure monitors I just bought (Secutire wireless tire pressure monitors, 4 for about $25.), http://tinyurl.com/4dvwnw5 , get the tires balanced, put them on the TM, and go for a test drive (once that last snow drift between the TM and the road melts down). Hope I don't drive over a nail in the first mile.

So, I've been checking online and we stopped by a Discount Tire store today while we were out running errands to ask about the Maxiis tires. They don't stock them but said they could get them.

We asked about the old age issue. Sure enough, they called (I'm pretty sure) the same supplier in Phoenix. He told us that they have 6 of those tires left, that they only get one shipment a year from Maxiis and that they don't know how old the tires are until they get them. He didn't exactly say that no doubt the tires they have now are older. On line $108, in store $134. He recommended Carlisles . . .

Malinda

[moaboy]

WMTIRE, what is a good "ball park " price for a metal 'clamp-in' stem TR-416?
Thanks.

[wmtire]

Dealer cost is usually around a $1.50- $2ish, depending on how many you buy.

[Barb&Tim]

WMTIRE, what is a good "ball park " price for a metal 'clamp-in' stem TR-416?
Thanks.

3.19 @ our NAPA for their NTH 90-416 (But I notice NAPA prices vary by location)

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=tire+valve|bolt%20in&Ntk=Keyword|Keyword&N=0

Caution--Bought these at NAPA and found that some of the stems were not all the same even though they were all in the same blister package with the same part #. The difference was the length of the threads used to tighten them on the wheel. The short threaded ones would not allow me to get the nut onto the threads. Returned the short threaded ones to NAPA and swapped them out.

Tim

[pauloh]

3.99 @ NAPA for their NTH 90416

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Results.aspx?Ntt=tire+valve|bolt%20in&Ntk=Keyword|Keyword&N=0


I've ordered these (ebay photo) from ebay, $8.99 for 4 stems incl. shipping, am awaiting arrival this week. They appear to be the same as I saw at other vendors for a bit more (they get you on the shipping cost), though I didn't check NAPA. I thought these looked short, which might be a little better for mounting tire pressure monitors on them.

[wmtire]

I've ordered these (ebay photo) from ebay, $8.99 for 4 stems incl. shipping, am awaiting arrival this week. They appear to be the same as I saw at other vendors for a bit more (they get you on the shipping cost), though I didn't check NAPA. I thought these looked short, which might be a little better for mounting tire pressure monitors on them.

That's a pretty good deal.

We had the following happen to another member, which is why I am going to explain it again. In your pic, you will notice that there are two rubber grommets on each stem. They include the two grommets, depending on which size valve stem hole you have in your wheel. The grommet at the bottom of the stem is the one that will fit standard trailmanor wheels, and actually most wheels in general. It is for a .453 valve hole.

The rubber grommet at the top of the stem is for a size .625 valve hole. Most likely, your wheel valve stem hole is not this size, so you just THROW it away. You will NOT use both grommets. You would just use one, and if you had to use the .625 one, you would slide the .453 off and replace it with the .625 one. You DO NOT use one on the inside and one on the outside (which another one of our members had happen to him at a tire store, as they incorrectly installed these stems in his wheels).

I am telling you this, so you can watch and make sure the tire guy does it right, as he may not have experience with a clamp-in stem. Take the top rubber grommet off, unscrew the nut, and remove the chrome washer. Set these aside.

1.You will slide the correct rubber grommet on the metal stem, all the way down to the base, with the thin side facing up to the top of the stem. You most likely will not have to change anything, as the .453 grommet is already in the correct place, according to your pic

2. Now, you will insert the stem from inside the wheel, making sure the thin part of the grommet seats in the valve hole. This is important, cause if the thin part doesn't actually fit up in the hole correct, it will not seal right. I usually just spin the stem with my fingers, while inserting it, to make sure it fits in the hole correct.

3. Now, while holding pressure on the stem, to keep the grommet seated...put the chrome washer on the stem from the outside of the rim...then the nut itself. Tighten it all down (making sure the rubber grommet stays seated in the valve hole).

You don't want to overtighten the nut, as you can actually cut the rubber grommet with the bottom of the metal stem. You also don't want to undertighten it either. I usually do it by feel. You will not just keep tightening it till it stops.

[pauloh]

That's a pretty good deal.

We had the following happen to another member, which is why I am going to explain it again. In your pic, you will notice that there are two rubber grommets on each stem. They include the two grommets, depending on which size valve stem hole you have in your wheel. The grommet at the bottom of the stem is the one that will fit standard trailmanor wheels, and actually most wheels in general. It is for a .453 valve hole.

The rubber grommet at the top of the stem is for a size .625 valve hole. Most likely, your wheel valve stem hole is not this size, so you just THROW it away. You will NOT use both grommets. You would just use one, and if you had to use the .625 one, you would slide the .453 off and replace it with the .625 one. You DO NOT use one on the inside and one on the outside (which another one of our members had happen to him at a tire store, as they incorrectly installed these stems in his wheels).

I am telling you this, so you can watch and make sure the tire guy does it right, as he may not have experience with a clamp-in stem.

I am going to print your complete post above and give it to my tire guy. It's a small local shop, I think they're competent but may not have dealt with this too often.

My TM is once again semi-buried in new snow today so it may be a week or two until I get back to the tire project. Thanks in advance for helping me avoid a possible situation...I had no idea there were two sizes of grommets on there. I do have the standard 15" TM wheels, so maybe I'll just remove that larger grommet before heading to the tire shop.

[Philip]

Hello Again Folks,

I thought I would let the forum know that my 2008 2720TM will require a lift kit in order to increase wheel size to 15" from the 14" wheels supplied. After recently purchasing 15" wheels(including steel clamp on valve stems - TR 416 as recommended by Bobby) with new 8 ply rated Goodyear ST225-75-15 (D load rated) tires, I checked the wheel well clearances and suspension system on my TM. With the 14" wheels I have slightly less than the 3" wheel well clearance recommended by Dexter. I also made measurments of the Dexter Torflex suspension system mounting bracket to find exactly which Torflex system I have. If you go on the Dexter website you can find Torflex Application Information which shows the mounting bracket dimensions for various capacity systems and the high and low profile versions of the bracket for each system. My suspension system is the one rated at 2300 - 3500 LBS. capacity. I have the Low Profile bracket which is probably why I need the lift kit.

I mention all this since it appears from the forum discussions that some members 2008 2720 TM's have been shipped with High Profile brackets which may not require a lift kit. Just be aware that some 2008 2720 TM's do require a lift kit to go to 15" wheels.

I am also surprised(and a bit disappointed) that the suspension supplied with my TM is only rated for a max. load of 3500 LBS. I would think that most owners are running close to or slightly above this limit. I can only hope that as with most engineered systems there is a fairly large safety factor built into this suspension system. The next capacity up from the one I have is rated at 3600 - 6000LBS. Trailmanor was caught on the margin of the two capacity ranges and chose the lower one.

Again, I appreciate all the comments from forum members.

Happy trails,

Phil Friess

[OneMoBear]

So, The Car Show recommends either the Marathons (hard to buy after our experience today but we'll admit they were too old) or Towmasters.

Thoughts? We can't seem to find new Maxiis tires (without paying a king's ransom from the manufacturer) which seems nuts since we are right on the edge of the Denver Metropolitan area.

Malinda

[Bill]

I've mentioned it before, but I'll do it again. We moved to 15" Load Range D Marathons in the spring of 2007 (thanks, Bobby!), and we have been thrilled with them. Even on our twice-a-year heavily-loaded cross-country trips, they run cool to the touch - cooler than the tires on our Explorer tow vehicle. Much cooler than the old 14" Marathons, which were never hot but always quite warm. We now have about 20,000 miles on those tires, with no problems whatever. Tread still looks good, too, though they are getting a bit long in the tooth.

We have clamp-in metal valve stems, as suggested by wmtire, and we balanced them when they were installed.

I was among the people who were VERY displeased with the 14" Marathons, and had a number of failures. But now you can count me among the folks who love the bigger Marathons. I'm convinced that a major part of the problem was in the load margin, though I understand that Goodyear has also moved their manufacturing plants out of China.

Never used Towmasters or Maxxis, so I can't offer anything there. But when I replace the current tires, I will buy 15" Marathons again.

Bill

[ShrimpBurrito]

But when I replace the current tires, I will buy 15" Marathons again.

Bill - Out of curiosity, when do you plan on replacing them? They currently have 4 years of service, and are probably ~5 years old.

Dave

[Bill]

Good question. I was going to try to make it back to Maine in May before changing them out. But we went on a desert camping trip with some friends the other day, actually an excuse to try out our new-to-us Jeep Wrangler (as a wilderness geocaching tool, not a tow vehicle!), and on the way home I felt some very speed-specific rumbling. I blamed it on the tow vehicle - we hit a curb not long ago - but as soon as we got home and took the TM off the hitch, the rumbling was no longer present.

So we'll see what my common sense and my fear factor make me do.

Bill

[OneMoBear]

It was time to just jump so we ordered our stuff today. We went with Discount Tire just because they are EVERYWHERE, in case we have a problem.

We went with 15" alloy wheels, marathon tires, and the stems Bobby recommended. We're just going to pick them up and install them ourselves.

Thanks to all for the wonderful advice and information!

Malinda

[Philip]

But now you can count me among the folks who love the bigger Marathons. I'm convinced that a major part of the problem was in the load margin, though I understand that Goodyear has also moved their manufacturing plants out of China.

Bill

Bill,

I just thought you might like to know that the new Goodyear 15" Marathons I just purchased are all "Made In The USA". Perhaps, as you say, they are back manufacturing in the USA again. If so, that is good news!. Nice to hear some manufacturing returning to home.

I tend to think like you - the extra load carrying margin of the 15" "D" rated tires over the nominal 14" tires hopefully will reduce my chance of a blowout due to tire failure.

Take care,

Phil Friess

[wmtire]

It was time to just jump so we ordered our stuff today. We went with Discount Tire just because they are EVERYWHERE, in case we have a problem.

We went with 15" alloy wheels, marathon tires, and the stems Bobby recommended. We're just going to pick them up and install them ourselves.

Thanks to all for the wonderful advice and information!

Malinda

See if they also balanced them. Most dealers don't feel it is necessary on trailers. I must admit, I was one of those dealers till I joined these forums and learned better. I read where other members had their tires balanced and it helped so much in their travels by the trailer not bouncing and rattling stuff loose inside. It is now SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) that we balance tires being used on campers.....thanks to everyone here.

I think I read where even Trailmanor now has theirs balanced too, before installing them on new trailers.

[tgpmd1]

put on the ebay tire pressure monitors I just bought (Secutire wireless tire pressure monitors, 4 for about $25.), http://tinyurl.com/4dvwnw5

Are you using the TMS referenced above on the TM tires or the TV tires? The link says the item is for tires running at regular tire pressure of 35-50. Thanks!

[pauloh]

Are you using the TMS referenced above on the TM tires or the TV tires? The link says the item is for tires running at regular tire pressure of 35-50. Thanks!

I intend to use the ebay Secutire Tire Pressure Monitor ( http://tinyurl.com/4dvwnw5 ) on the TM tires (normal pressure 65 lbs.), including the spare, but I was able to adjust the pressure "alarm" setting from 28 lbs. (as set by the mfr.) to about 50 lbs. I HAVE NOT ROAD TESTED THE FOLLOWING AS YET. But it has worked well on my spare tire, as tested in my shop. As I add air to the tire in steps, and put on the TPM at each increase, the alarm stops going off around 55 lbs and up. If I let out air, the alarm goes off at 48 to 55 lbs (depending on which sensor I was testing after adjustment...the process described below is not extremely precise, but I was comfortable with this range of accuracy).

At the risk of giving you "too much information" for your simple question, here's what I did: There were 4 devices in the package, and I only need three, so I experimented on one. Through some hints located on the internet, I found that I could increase the alarm pressure by turning a screw inside the TPM, which is visible when you unscrew the top to activate/change the battery. In normal use, the instructions (well-written, but they do not mention this adjustment) state to unscrew the top, and remove a small piece of insulating paper so the battery will be activated when you screw the top back on (you can replace the paper, or remove the batteries when not on the road, to extend life, estimated at 3 years in the instructions). This would be your default 28-lbs. alarm setting.

While you have the cap and battery in one hand, your other hand is holding the base. The base has a sort of screw inside, as this is turned clockwise, it increases the alarm pressure. I found that about 1 full turn, plus maybe another one-quarter or one-half turn got me up to around 50 lbs. for alarm setting. Yes, you'll have to fool around with it (put it on valve stem, wait for alarm/no alarm for 15 sec. or so, take it off, remove the cap, adjust screw, repeat, possibly adding air to the tire at some point and checking the actual pressure with a gauge every time) but I thought for $25. this was OK. (And I admit I like to hack on stuff.) Note, the adjustment screw is not directly "controllable" with a flat screwdriver, the threads of what's below it come up and get in your way a bit (see photo). So you have to sort of push one side of the screw around to get that 1 turn plus 1/4-1/2 turn. Or find another spanner wrench of that size. In any case, before starting make an index mark with black pen so you can see how far you've turned the screw, it's easy to lose track at this small scale.

This may be more "screwing around" than some care to do! Just trying to save some dough here. There are of course more expensive TPM systems that are easier to adjust, or have other features. I still intend to check pressure the usual way at regular intervals (in my case, that'll be about every 5 miles for the first 1000 on my new tires!!).

I'll post a couple of photos. Note the mfr. includes 2 "spanner wrenches" (and cautions against losing them). These are used to attach the base of the device to your valve stem firmly; when you then install the battery and cap on the base, if someone tries to unscrew (steal) your TPM, it will just spin around on the valve stem, it won't come off. (The wrench also functions to really crank down the cap, but it doesn't have to be that tight to operate.) This could be a hassle if you want to check your air pressure daily with a tire gauge, as you have to remove the TPM to do so. So I intend to just screw the whole TPM on as assembled, which works fine but will potentially allow it to be stolen. (I'll have that 4th spare in the glove box, and one on the spare I could get if needed.)

The alarm part of this system does work well. It seems to respond in under 15 seconds to a loss of pressure; the "beep" from the receiver (which you plug into the cigarette lighter) is loud, it repeats, and goes into a 30-second cycle if you don't do something. One of 4 lights on the receiver tell you WHICH tire is going flat (each sensor has a sticker telling you which light/tire it is programmed for). It will indicate for more than one sensor alarm at a time.

I have one of those Peak portable 12V jump-starters, with a cigarette-lighter plug-in and air compressor, which made it easy to test all this out in my shop.

[OneMoBear]

Balancing them is definitely part of the package. Thanks again!

Malinda

See if they also balanced them. Most dealers don't feel it is necessary on trailers. I must admit, I was one of those dealers till I joined these forums and learned better. I read where other members had their tires balanced and it helped so much in their travels by the trailer not bouncing and rattling stuff loose inside. It is now SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) that we balance tires being used on campers.....thanks to everyone here.

I think I read where even Trailmanor now has theirs balanced too, before installing them on new trailers.

[tgpmd1]

Thanks Pauloh for the advice. I'm very 'cheap' as well and I think I may try using this more inexpensive TPMS. Keep us updated on how it works.

I just ordered the lift kit from the factory today and am still looking for wheel and tire deals around D.C. I got discount tire direct down to $561 for three tire and wheels, which includes everything including shipping, but got the name of a place I could try to find wheels for my TM. It's a boat trailer shop about 30 miles away from here, but talking to tire shops around here, the prices are very high or they don't want to deal with ordering the wheels.

[OneMoBear]

We got the wheels, tires, etc. today. We were supposed to pick up the trailer tomorrow but The Car Show, once again, wants a lot more time :rolleyes: How long do you suppose it takes for a dealer to install a lift kit?

How funny is this though? Discount Tire called this morning to tell us that the tires had arrived and we were good to go. Gene went to pick them up this afternoon only to find they had Carlisle tires on the wheels . . . He says they fixed it pretty quickly :p And isn't this a pretty picture??

Malinda

[scrubjaysnest]

sweet!!!!!!!!!

[ELM-JLM]

Am anxious to see the finished product! Looking Good

[OneMoBear]

Yippee! The Car Show called today and said our TM will be ready this evening! We'll head down there tomorrow after our volunteer time at the museum and then we get to put the new wheels on, on Saturday. This has been a long time coming . . . They called to point out how old our tires are. I said, "We know. That is why we are getting the lift kit." "Oh, yeah." The new wheels are in the back of the truck, just in case . . .

Malinda

[OneMoBear]

So, we're happy to report that the TM is back home and we shouldn't have to put more than about 30 feet on the old tires :p

Clearly, we need to make some modifications in the hitch now . . . We would love to "man up" the wheels and tires on the truck too but that will have to wait for a year or so.

Any brilliant suggestions about the best fix for the hitch?

Malinda

[ShrimpBurrito]

Clearly, we need to make some modifications in the hitch receiver now . . . Any brilliant suggestions about the best fix for the receiver?

When I went from 14" to 15" wheels, I didn't touch the receiver. By changing wheel sizes 1", you only raise the TM frame 1/2". I couldn't tell a difference, so I didn't touch the height of the ball mount on the TV.

Dave

[OneMoBear]

When I went from 14" to 15" wheels, I didn't touch the receiver. By changing wheel sizes 1", you only raise the TM frame 1/2". I couldn't tell a difference, so I didn't touch the height of the ball mount on the TV.

Dave

But we just got the 2 1/2" lift kit installed . . . I found this link. We'll follow this measuring procedure after we get the new wheels on and find the right size hitch somewhere.

Malinda

[OneMoBear]

LOVE IT!

Malinda

[ShrimpBurrito]

But we just got the 2 1/2" lift kit installed .

Ah, I missed that.

Dave

[OneMoBear]

Ah, I missed that.

Dave

This has been a really long story :p

[T and C]

LOVE IT!

Malinda

What is that device hanging on the outside of the trailer in picture #4??

Tom

[wmtire]

Malinda, those aluminum wheels sure snazzied up the look of it. :D

[OneMoBear]

What is that device hanging on the outside of the trailer in picture #4??

Tom

I'm not sure what you mean.

Malinda

[OneMoBear]

Malinda, those aluminum wheels sure snazzied up the look of it. :D

Thanks! We love it! Thanks again for the sage advice!

Malinda

[ELM-JLM]

WOW! Thats a Beauty! Nice choice of wheels!

[wmtire]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Malinda

I think Tom is talking about the exterior window awning/shade, it appears you have on the window where your fridge and couch are on the driver side. It got my attention also as I had not seen one on a trailmanor. See attached pic

[OneMoBear]

I think Tom is talking about the exterior window awning/shade, it appears you have on the window where your fridge and couch are on the driver side. It got my attention also as I had not seen one on a trailmanor. See attached pic

I got cha! http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9379

Malinda

[T and C]

wmtire and onemobear,

Thanks.

Tom