RV Comparison Shopping

[thebbqguy]

I attended the Tampa RV Super Show today and just returned with a handful of brochures. I hoped to see some Trail Manors at the show, but there weren't any. It was a little disappointing, because I had hoped to compare them with several other manufacturers side-by-side so to speak.

Let me say that the selection of small, lightweight travel trailers loaded with options is much larger than it was 2 years ago when we last attended the show. There are 6 or 7 travel trailers that remain on my shopping list, but 3 or 4 have the edge on those.

I've put together an attachment (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sony-a700/5361349630/) that lists those still on my list with some of the primary considerations. Let me know what you think.

Since I wasn't able to see the Trail Manor at the show, I'm interested in hearing some of your observations concerning my shopping list compared to the Trail Manor features and benefits.

[Barb&Tim]

I know that I could not get a true feeling for what a folding TM was like until I actually made a special trip to see one.

Tim

Edit: Maybe this place has one to look at:


Jim Crandell RV Sales
Phone: 813-629-3333
3332 Paul Buchman Hwy
Zephyrhills, Florida


Seems to be about 30miles or so away from you.
(I would call them first to make sure they still have any Tm's on the lot)

[thebbqguy]

Yes. I believe a trip to Zephyrhills is in our future.

I'll be honest and tell you that the Gulfstream Visa and Aerolite Shuttle 188 are presently at the top of my list with the MPG 181 with the Platinum package in a close third place. Once I am able to actually see the Trail Manors up close I suspect it will move up the list.

If we'd have been ready to buy today, I could have gotten a good deal on the Aerolite ($12k-13K) and they were selling the Gulfstream Visa's like hot cakes for $16.9k. There was a HUGE interest in the Visa's.

[scrubjaysnest]

For us the TM was a no brainer. We were coming off a 6 month trip in a pop-up. We had looked at the r-Pod and a few others and mostly they had two big disadvantages. Less room then our pup and to high of a towing profile. Here in Fl high winds on the highway usually aren't a problem but by the time you get around Ok or Tx they became a real issue for us. Another area of concern is many of the campsites in the National Park system cannot take a camper much over 20 feet so that can create getting a site a big problem. Last year at Glacier it wasn't to bad but once Yellowstone starting shutting down campgrounds in Sept. It was a major head ache. I managed to shoe horn the pup into a site that was more or less level. Then it would take 15 minutes to park the TV on pavement but not the CG loop road. At Yellowstone we saw TT's and 5th wheels that could not open their slides because the sites were so small. For us a camper that is 20 feet long towing and below the cab of the truck but opens to 27 feet of living space was the only way to go. If you want to run that far J D Sanders RV has 3 or 4 TM's on their site. They are about 20 mins north of Gainsville on 441. The prices there a about 15k higher then what an r-Pod or some of the others are you looked at today.

[wbmiller3]

We wanted to have a hard sided trailer that could be stored in our garage. If that is what you want, it narrows your options considerably. If you don't care about keeping whatever you buy in a standard garage, a standard big-box trailer is most likely more economical.

[TM_Matt]

Since your search includes more models than TM, there are other forums which may add more. I have had several trailers but none of these particular models. These look very cool, however.

What are your constraints and expectations? Why do you want a smaller trailer? What are you pulling with? How many campers?

The key differences I noticed immediately with these models were:

Slide - that could add more apparent space but you really have to compare the floor plans and see if it makes a difference to you. Is that important to you?

Couch - Having only a dinette to chill and spread out can be restrictive - this is a factor with the TM but you can easily put the table down. Think about if or where the TV will be and if it will cause an aneurysm to see the tube :-) Some trailers have a very nice foldable backrest for the beds to make it into a quasi-couch during the day.

Oven - the oven adds quite a bit of flexibility to camping. Do you cook? If you had free time would you want to fill it whipping up some redneck risotto (chicken and rice) or maybe a key lime pie?

Full size fridge - Some of these had a smaller fridge with integrated freezer while others had the separate freezer. Bigger is awesome.

Walk-around bed - useful if going to bed at different times or getting up in the middle of the night.

It's ideal to have at least a 20% factor of safety with the limits of the tow vehicle (TV) for GCWR (combined weight) and GVWR.

There is no perfect trailer but you can get very close but it's almost entirely personal once you have the "must have" items.

Have fun.

Matt

[tfcmarty]

If you want to see a 3124 TM in Tampa, you are more than welcome to come by and look at ours. We opened it up today to get a start on spring cleaning, for an upcomming spring break trip. Contact me at emartin at TFC.NET.

[hhoenig]

every trailer you list is smaller than the smallest TM. The 2619 opens to 26'. You will be trailering 1 more foot (19 vs 18) to gain much more space. We had the 2619 for a family of 4 and loved it.
Good luck

[[email protected]]

You might also consider the Keystone Bullet line of trailers. They have several models under 4000lb dry weight.

[ng2951]

What are you planning to tow with? The other thing to remember that all those units do not have a HVAC. Add about 200 pounds for it unless you are not planning to use AC.

To me the biggest downside to the TM are the setting up and knocking down. That means you cannot have a full size refer and everything has to be off the counters before you can fold and go. It doesn't matter how tired you are, you still have to do that before you can skoot.

That said the TMs are nice machines, very light, fuel efficient, and fairly well equipped. The HW tanks are among the few that work with both propane and electricity. Talk about fast recovery!!!

[Wavery]

every trailer you list is smaller than the smallest TM. The 2619 opens to 26'. You will be trailering 1 more foot (19 vs 18) to gain much more space. We had the 2619 for a family of 4 and loved it.
Good luck

That's not exactly accurate. The 2619 opens to 23' and a lot of that (approx 9.5') is elevated bunks with nothing but air below. Pull a 26' TT along side a 2619 and you will find a remarkable difference in storage, full size refrigerator, large bathroom with a real toilet and decent size black water holding tank, floor space, cabinetry and just over-all volume.

Most 23' TTs are also 8' wide. The TM is 7.5' wide. If you do a little math, you will find that the 2619 has approx 900 cubic feet of interior space (and that's being generous). A 23' TT will have approx 1150 cubic feet of interior space (about 28% larger). If you add a 10' slide out on the TT that gives you another 120 cubic feet for a total of 1270 cubic feet (about 40% larger). That's why I get a little annoyed when TM says that the 2619 is "Comparable" to a 26' TT. I think that is just a little disingenuous and assumes that consumers are just a little "STUPID".

It's sorta like saying, "My 1800sq ft house is comparable to someone else's 2300sq ft house. You should buy my 1800sq ft house because I say it's just as big.....oh....and buy the way......you should pay more for my house". The math just doesn't pan out.

I love our TM but I just don't like giving people the wrong impression.

TM has a niche and I feel that they should concentrate on their niche and not stretch the truth. Not many people can store a full size TT in their garage. That's it....plain and simple..... The small gas savings and relative ease of towing are nice but not huge. The fold-down trailers certainly can't be sold as being "Lite". Being able to store it in the garage or in the back yard, out of sight is huge.....IMO.

[hhoenig]

we were comparing an 18' upright trailer to a 2619. I still think the TM wins.

[scrubjaysnest]

we were comparing an 18' upright trailer to a 2619. I still think the TM wins.
I agree, with upright TT's you lose 7 to 8 feet for the bedroom area.
On our 28 foot Outback that leaves 20 feet for living/cooking area. The only reason the Outback has more living/cooking area is the 12 slide. It also has a UVW of 5000lbs vs 3200 for the TM. But then the TM goes camping with us and the Outback is rooted at the fish camp.

[Wavery]

we were comparing an 18' upright trailer to a 2619. I still think the TM wins.

In that case, you're probably right. 18' is pretty small.

I just had to vent.......:D

[thebbqguy]

I have an SUV rated at 7,000 maximum towing currently, but the newer model which I will someday own is rated at only 5,000 maximum towing. That is originally why I started investigating the TMs.

When I last shopped for RVs 3 years ago, there were very few ultra lightweight travel trailers. Now it seems like there are many more to choose from.

I do like the TMs I see on the web, but they are definitely not for everyone. I'm still investigating my options, now that I have found at least 10-15 ultra lightweight travel trailers do exist (and some of them are tandem axles), I am weighing the possibilities.

I owned a full size pick-up truck with 9,500 maximum tow rating for 13 years, but I doubt I'll ever own another one. It's not a very good commuter vehicle. I like SUV's because sometimes I need the extra passenger room, but 90% of the time it's just my wife and I. For the 10% of the time I'll actually be towing a trailer, a full size truck just doesn't seem practical anymore.

So, my thought is that I need to find a trailer that I can tow within the 5,000 max tow rating. My dad, who has been towing RVs and other trailers for 40 years plus, is very cautionary about me buying a single axle trailer.

I live in FL, so hills and wind are not an issue, but a lighter trailer allows me more flexibility if I do every want to travel elsewhere.

The more I research and think about it, the more confusing it gets.

I think I need to talk to more people who tow with 5,000 max towing vehicles to become more comfortable with the in's and out's and the limitations (which is why I enjoy reading this forum and others). Who better to learn from than those are currently doing what I am thinking about doing?

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[Wavery]

I have an SUV rated at 7,000 maximum towing currently, but the newer model which I will someday own is rated at only 5,000 maximum towing. That is originally why I started investigating the TMs.

When I last shopped for RVs 3 years ago, there were very few ultra lightweight travel trailers. Now it seems like there are many more to choose from.

I do like the TMs I see on the web, but they are definitely not for everyone. I'm still investigating my options, now that I have found at least 10-15 ultra lightweight travel trailers do exist (and some of them are tandem axles), I am weighing the possibilities.

I owned a full size pick-up truck with 9,500 maximum tow rating for 13 years, but I doubt I'll ever own another one. It's not a very good commuter vehicle. I like SUV's because sometimes I need the extra passenger room, but 90% of the time it's just my wife and I. For the 10% of the time I'll actually be towing a trailer, a full size truck just doesn't seem practical anymore.

So, my thought is that I need to find a trailer that I can tow within the 5,000 max tow rating. My dad, who has been towing RVs and other trailers for 40 years plus, is very cautionary about me buying a single axle trailer.

I live in FL, so hills and wind are not an issue, but a lighter trailer allows me more flexibility if I do every want to travel elsewhere.

The more I research and think about it, the more confusing it gets.

I think I need to talk to more people who tow with 5,000 max towing vehicles to become more comfortable with the in's and out's and the limitations (which is why I enjoy reading this forum and others). Who better to learn from than those are currently doing what I am thinking about doing?

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

In the majority of situations, a properly outfitted TM does well with some 5,000# tow rated vehicles.

There are other factors that should be considered.........the area where you tow, the size of your family, amount of gear that you travel with etc. In reality, tow ratings don't mean much on there own. One must consider the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of the tow vehicle.

With most 5,000# rated TVs, you will need to have a good WDH. It's best to be sure that the TM that you purchase can handle the extra loading from the WDH.

[thebbqguy]

Is it really this simple?

10,096 manufacturer's GCWR - 4,509 manufacturer's curb weight =
5,587 theoretical towing capacity

So a 5,000 max tow rating on this particular vehicle should allow towing of a 4,000 lb trailer on relatively flat Florida roads?

This vehicle has 290 hp and 255 torque rating and a 500 lb max hitch weight rating.

[Wavery]

Is it really this simple?

10,096 manufacturer's GCWR - 4,509 manufacturer's curb weight =
5,587 theoretical towing capacity

So a 5,000 max tow rating on this particular vehicle should allow towing of a 4,000 lb trailer on relatively flat Florida roads?

This vehicle has 290 hp and 255 torque rating and a 500 lb max hitch weight rating.
No....it really isn't that simple...:cool:

You forgot to add all of the passenger & cargo weight.

Assuming that you don't have over 1000# of passengers & cargo (including gas), you should be ~OK with a 4,000 trailer but you would be pushing the envelope.

The HP and torque are fine. You can PULL a TM with a 10hp golf cart. The problem is stopping it in an emergency, down-hill, wet pavement etc. Too many people focus on the TV's ability to pull. The main focus should be on stopping and handling.

[thebbqguy]

I assumed the trailer in the above GCWR calculation weighs 3,000 lbs. I added 1,000 lbs for cargo to arrive at the 4,000 lbs.

[countrygirl]

I am intriqued by this rv...the Element by Evergreen. Roof has a 13 year warrenty and Camper has a 3 year warranty. It appears so new I can not find pricing for it. The info photos and specs can be found here. Looks really sleek and hopefully will be priced less then the Earthbounds that we also love. The origional Evergreen products are less but not as eye catching.

http://rvbuddies.net/evergreen-element-wows-crowd-at-louisville/

I think these weigh about 3,300.

[ng2951]

...My dad, who has been towing RVs and other trailers for 40 years plus, is very cautionary about me buying a single axle trailer...One of the big reasons why I like my 3326 are the dual axles.

A number of the upright trailers certainly have more storage. You have to remember BECAUSE a TM folds your vertical storage gets cut in half. To me storage is the big shortcoming in a TM and why I like the 3124 series.

The plus side to that is that TMs tend to have a lot of visibility anywhere in the trailer. The beds have windows on three sides.

One other feature/problem is the toilet. I hear more people fuss over this, but I am happy with mine. One of the big advantages is that it is not water hungry. That means fresh water can be used for whatever except flushing.

I would like a really simple toy hauler. That would allow the pardette and I put all our cowboy gear, firearms, ammo in an easy place. I have seen some with their reloading press "in the garage" so they can play on the road.

That said, I have still have room left over for anything but reloading. If $5/gal gas hits this summer (and I see no reason why it will not) having TM means I can go to all those matches that I could not with heavier trailer...

[Scott O]

I am intriqued by this rv...the Element by Evergreen. Roof has a 13 year warrenty and Camper has a 3 year warranty. It appears so new I can not find pricing for it. The info photos and specs can be found here. Looks really sleek and hopefully will be priced less then the Earthbounds that we also love. The origional Evergreen products are less but not as eye catching.

http://rvbuddies.net/evergreen-element-wows-crowd-at-louisville/

I think these weigh about 3,300.

Sit down... the Evergreen model with the side slide out is $53,247 USD MSRP. And I thought TMs were expensive!

[Wavery]

I assumed the trailer in the above GCWR calculation weighs 3,000 lbs. I added 1,000 lbs for cargo to arrive at the 4,000 lbs.

That's about right for the trailer when camping but you have to add in the weight for passengers and cargo in the TV.

[PopBeavers]

I don't understand the advantage of a tandem axle on a ultralite, such as my 2720. It performed quite well with a blowout

Tandems all have scuffing. I am not sure what the impact of scuffing in every turn is, but it can not be an advantage.

When we were comparing the TM to other trailers here is what we were looking for:

Fit in the garage, not more than 19 feet long and not more than 7 feet tall

Sleeps six

bathroom with walls instead of a curtain

shower

kitchen sink stove and oven are obvious

something bigger than a 20 gallon water tank

oven

table for 5 adults at dinner

Light enough (my 2720 is 4,100 pounds wet and loaded) that I can tow it with either a Chevy 1500HD or a GMC 2500HD crew cab truck loaded with motorcycles.

I could not find very many trailers that met those specifications.

fwiw, without the motorcycles when towing with the 1500HD my total weight is about 11,000 pounds.

With the 2500HD and 3 motorcycles I am probably around 12,000 to 13,000 pounds. I weighed the first one and have not weighed the latter one.

Sometimes I only carry one passenger in the truck because the back seat is loaded with 10 cases of water, soda and beer. I ran out of room in the TM and the bed of the truck.

We almost always take both trucks. I'll trade gas bills with anyone.

[countrygirl]

Sit down... the Evergreen model with the side slide out is $53,247 USD MSRP. And I thought TMs were expensive!

Wow...I am amazed at the price. Hmmm and we thought the Earthbounds were too high. I find it frustrating that some campers are sold for a higher price then the identical camper in a different area of the county. I have found Earthbounds for 10,000 less in Ohio then the ones in Florida.

[scrubjaysnest]

Wow...I am amazed at the price. Hmmm and we thought the Earthbounds were too high. I find it frustrating that some campers are sold for a higher price then the identical camper in a different area of the county. I have found Earthbounds for 10,000 less in Ohio then the ones in Florida.
This is the very reason we bought the TM in Tx 10k less then here in Fl. Especially since it had 4k of options we didn't need.

[Beach Boy]

I am still looking for my perfect TM. There are many advantages that I makes me sold on the TM. The one of the advantages that I am sold on is the height of the roof when closed. The Achilles heel of most RV's in general is the roof.

The closed height of a TM is the perfect height to clean the roof with soap, water, and long handle brush. Previously, I owned a 37' motorhome. The roof was at least 25' high. In order to clean the roof, you have to stand on the roof with a high probability of slipping off. Also, don't try to stand on the roof of an ultra-lite trailer if you don't want roof leaks.

As for a RV cover, it seems to me that it would relatively easy to cover a closed TM. With the motorhome, I had to tie a rope around a very heavy cover and pull it up while standing on the roof. Another chance to fall off.

When looking at RV's, keep this in mind.

[MisterP]

Wow, you did not get under too many bridges, did you? :)

There is no perfect RV. All are a series of compromises that need careful research and discussion. My suggestion to prospective owners is make a plus/minus chart for each model you look at. The one you buy will probably be the one with the least negatives. We have gone from a 3124KB to a 38' toy hauler (now for sale) to a 3326. Each has served its purpose well.



The closed height of a TM is the perfect height to clean the roof with soap, water, and long handle brush. Previously, I owned a 37' motorhome. The roof was at least 25' high. In order to clean the roof, you have to stand on the roof with a high probability of slipping off. Also, ...

[Beach Boy]

Wow, you did not get under too many bridges, did you? :)

There is no perfect RV. All are a series of compromises that need careful research and discussion. My suggestion to prospective owners is make a plus/minus chart for each model you look at. The one you buy will probably be the one with the least negatives. We have gone from a 3124KB to a 38' toy hauler (now for sale) to a 3326. Each has served its purpose well.

I usually used the jet pack to go over the bridges. Statement was made with tongue-in-cheek. I got a telephone call and forgot to put a smiley face after the statement. Oops! :eek:

[ng2951]

...Sleeps six...If they can get along and it stops raining quick enough (really true of about anything but the bigger 5th wheels). Oh, if you are a submariner the accommodations are stellar.

[ZHILLSFITZ]

Last December, I had trouble keeping the genset on my 1976 GMC Eleganza running. Instead of running it down to Tampa, I took it ot Jim Crandell RV and his mechanic Ryan had it running smooth with an inexpensice carb cleaning. We had seen TMs at the Tampa RV show a few years ago and wanted one ever since.
I had the GMC for 10 years and paid $25k for it and spend that much in repairs and upgrades. I asked Jim if he would consider a trade for an '07 2720SL that had never been used(repo). After searching the market , he wanted $5k and my GMC but I offered $1-2k. He countered with $3500 which is 1/10 the original price. They are laid back, no hassle people and I highly reccomend them and TM.