Elkmont refrig - 2-way or 3-way?

[cochise]

We received a red binder with most user manuals in it, including the TM Owners manual. But on when I got to page 23 under "refrigerator" I sat up. They state that it is a 3-way design, so I went on to page 24. Halfway down under "Start Up: DC operation it states that the refrigerator is made to operate on 12 VDC while the vehicle is in transit. That is only true in as far as 12 VDC is used for the controls and is used when the refrigerator in using the LP gas mode, but ALSO when it runs in 120 VAC mode. This was verified by NORCOLD. They say it would take too much current to run something that big on 12 VDC. Which makes sense. So it seem TM is a bit over optimistic or have no clue what they are really dealing with.

[Wavery]

We received a red binder with most user manuals in it, including the TM Owners manual. But on when I got to page 23 under "refrigerator" I sat up. They state that it is a 3-way design, so I went on to page 24. Halfway down under "Start Up: DC operation it states that the refrigerator is made to operate on 12 VDC while the vehicle is in transit. That is only true in as far as 12 VDC is used for the controls and is used when the refrigerator in using the LP gas mode, but ALSO when it runs in 120 VAC mode. This was verified by NORCOLD. They say it would take too much current to run something that big on 12 VDC. Which makes sense. So it seem TM is a bit over optimistic or have no clue what they are really dealing with.

I don't know who or why someone at Norcold would make a comment like that but that person is sorely mistaken. Our TM fridge works quite well off of 12V. I have seen huge 12V fridges on boats. The TM fridge is dinky @ 2 cu ft. I had an 11cu ft fridge on my sailboat and it was 12V. It was also very efficient.

Having said that, it does draw a lot of current on 12V and it's not something that you would want to do while dry camping. Most people here tow with there fridge on 12V.

[cochise]

I don't know who or why someone at Norcold would make a comment like that but that person is sorely mistaken. Our TM fridge works quite well off of 12V. I have seen huge 12V fridges on boats. The TM fridge is dinky @ 2 cu ft. I had an 11cu ft fridge on my sailboat and it was 12V. It was also very efficient.

Having said that, it does draw a lot of current on 12V and it's not something that you would want to do while dry camping. Most people here tow with there fridge on 12V.

I am referring to the full size refrigerator with FREEZER that comes with the Elkmont not the much smaller fridge in the folding trailer, they are only half the size of ours. And the info I got was based on the model number and serial number. Perhaps TM uses the same manual for all their trailers. And my fridge does NOT have a selector switch for 12 VDC as indicated in the manual, only "AUTO or GAS".

[brulaz]

Cochise,
There are numerous errors in the Elkmont manual. This is one of them. The seem to have hurriedly cut-and-paste from one of the other models.

A couple more examples:
“Small switch located in the overhead vent controls the wall lamps”

Under winterization: “Open the high-pressure cold-water drain valve (low point valve under trailer near freshwater tank), to drain the hot water tank”

[Wavery]

I am referring to the full size refrigerator with FREEZER that comes with the Elkmont not the much smaller fridge in the folding trailer, they are only half the size of ours. And the info I got was based on the model number and serial number. Perhaps TM uses the same manual for all their trailers. And my fridge does NOT have a selector switch for 12 VDC as indicated in the manual, only "AUTO or GAS".

OOOOOOPS!!!!:o

I forgot that we were talking about the Elkmont here......:p DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[Scott O]

We had a similar control in the Norcold refrigerator we had in a previous trailer. Auto would default to 110, but use 12v if 110 was not available, like when traveling. If we wanted gas, we switched from auto to gas. Don't know if that is the way your Norcold works.

[brulaz]

The Norcold in the Elkmont is only a 2-way refrigerator (120VAC and propane). It does not use 12VDC to cool the frig/freezer. However it does use 12VDC to ignite the propane, run the thermostat, indicators and so on. We leave ours in Auto mode, and when we disconnect the 120VAC line, we check to ensure that the Propane indicator light comes on. It does, and the frig/freezer seems to work as designed.

[Scott O]

Are you sure??? If so, that would force you to use propane when traveling. This is not a good idea at all (although I know many people do it) and is illegal in some places. Maybe because it is a full sized refrigerator? Personally I would have little use for a 2-way. In thinking about it, the one in our previous trailer may have been a Dometic, at any rate it was 3-way.

[Beak12]

Yes the Elkmont only runs on Gas or 110. We used Gas for driving. I know some states will not allow gas if going through tunnels. But if you don't use gas you might have a real mess after a day long drive to the next campsite.

[voyager2]

On our '09 Elkmont, the fridge uses 12 VDC when traveling. The Norcold owner's manual is not very clear about this. If you have your owner's manual look at the falult codes (probably on page 11). The first fault code is no "on" light. The meaning is DC voltage is unavailable or fridge is OFF. I am not sure about using 12 VDC while not hooked up to shore power and gas turned off. That happened to me last week in a campground and I got a confusing fault code. I checked fuses, etc. and found that the shore power cable had pulled out of the power post. In any event, if only DC is available, the batteries would not last long.

[cochise]

On our '09 Elkmont, the fridge uses 12 VDC when traveling. The Norcold owner's manual is not very clear about this. If you have your owner's manual look at the falult codes (probably on page 11). The first fault code is no "on" light. The meaning is DC voltage is unavailable or fridge is OFF. I am not sure about using 12 VDC while not hooked up to shore power and gas turned off. That happened to me last week in a campground and I got a confusing fault code. I checked fuses, etc. and found that the shore power cable had pulled out of the power post. In any event, if only DC is available, the batteries would not last long.

If you have a full size NORCOLD refrigerator it will ONLY run on either gas or 120 VAC. In both cases it needs the 12VDC for the control. The true 3-way refrigerators have a switch that allows you to chose either, 120 VSC, LP gas OR 12 VDC. Abd yes on 12 VDC you are not going to last very long.

Page 11 in the manual the first paragraph states: On Light "OFF", meaning: DC voltage is unavailable to the refrigerator CONTROL panel, or the refrigerator is OFF.

So the 12 VDC is ONLY for the control panel, NOT for running the fridge in the Elkmont.

[rumbleweed]

I think the statement "The meaning is DC voltage is unavailable or fridge is OFF" is not implying the fridge uses 12V to cool, but rather needs 12V to operate the controls ( thermostat and Lighting flame)

[voyager2]

After reading everyone's posts on this subject, I hooked up in the driveway and did some tests. The fridge works only on shorepower or gas. When we purchased our Elkmont, the dealer told us "auto" would automatically choose between 110 and 12 VDC. Guess he didn't know what he was talking about either.

Now the question becomes what to do on long trips to keep the unit cold. We have been fine for 2-3 hour trips, but what do you do when you are on the road for 7-8 hours? I really don't want to drive down the road with fridge in gas mode. Anyone have any suggestions?

[mtnguy]

After reading everyone's posts on this subject, I hooked up in the driveway and did some tests. The fridge works only on shorepower or gas. When we purchased our Elkmont, the dealer told us "auto" would automatically choose between 110 and 12 VDC. Guess he didn't know what he was talking about either.

Now the question becomes what to do on long trips to keep the unit cold. We have been fine for 2-3 hour trips, but what do you do when you are on the road for 7-8 hours? I really don't want to drive down the road with fridge in gas mode. Anyone have any suggestions?

If your fridge is like mine, then there is an automatic switch over between 120 volt and gas. When you unplug shore power, then the gas cuts on. There should be a button on your fridge panel that will allow gas only, no matter if you are plugged into shore power or not. I make sure the gas only button is pushed before starting up my generator while dry camping......if I didn't, then the fridge would switch from gas to 120 volt as soon as I plug my generator in.

After traveling with an ice box in my slide in camper and pop-up, and then the 3 way fridge in my Trailmanor, I was uncomfortable with going down the road with my propane tanks on and fridge operating on my conventional travel trailer.......and still don't like the idea. But I do it, as probably 90% of the non-3-way refrigerator owners do going down the road. I don't think that I have ever heard of an explosion by doing this, although I did read about a Class B catching on fire while gassing up, due to the fuel fill being too close to the fridge vent. On my setup, my fuel fill is 30' from my fridge vent......a lot further away then some fool walking by me while smoking. :eek:

[kenngeri2720]

One other draw of 12v power on the Elkmont fridge is the external cooling fan that is auto all the time no switch like the 3 way units. I drive with the propane on to keep things cold, but turn it off even before I fill-up the TV. I do miss the 12v only on my other TM, but this fridge is much to big for that fuction.

[brulaz]

I think most of those big rv's you see on the road are running their big frig's with propane on. There are cars that run on propane and natural gas. So I've come to just accept running it with the propane on. But I do like to check all the fittings and so on, just to be safe.

EDIT: Although I guess those vehicles that run on natural gas or propane don't have an open flame like the frig.

[Bill]

On the Trailmanor website, the Elkmont specs clearly state "Norcold full-size 2-way refrigerator". There shouldn't be any confusion about this - especially among dealers, but also among buyers.

Bill

[ShrimpBurrito]

While many folks seem to recognize the risk of running propane down the road in the form of a fire hazard while refueling, I seldom see anything mentioned about what might happen if a propane line was cut while traveling.

I vividly recall traveling from Gainesville to Jacksonville, FL several years ago on a divided 4-lane state road. Coming towards us in the opposite direction was a vehicle towing what appeared to be travel trailer of some sort. It was hard to tell exactly what kind it was because it was literally engulfed in flames. I'm not talking about a fire coming out the window -- I'm talking about this guy towing a ball of fire. I'm not sure if maybe he didn't realize it, or maybe he did and didn't know what to do, but he was driving down the road with wild abandon at 55 mph. I will never forget that sight, and can only presume the fire was being fueled by propane.

Of course, if a propane line is going to get cut, it's going to happen whether the propane is on or off. And if it doesn't leak while you're on the road, it will leak when you turn the propane on when setting up camp. The Acme nuts are supposed to close when flow exceeds a specified value (I think 75,000 BTU), which is better than nothing, but still.....

Dave

[kenngeri2720]

Dave,
I struggle with this issue every time I pack for a camping trip. On short trips say less than 4 hours driving time I may go to bagged ice or an ice chest, lots of peace of mind.

[brulaz]

Coming towards us in the opposite direction was a vehicle towing what appeared to be travel trailer of some sort. It was hard to tell exactly what kind it was because it was literally engulfed in flames. I'm not talking about a fire coming out the window -- I'm talking about this guy towing a ball of fire. I'm not sure if maybe he didn't realize it, or maybe he did and didn't know what to do, but he was driving down the road with wild abandon at 55 mph.

Somebody should have got that on film. What a sight.:eek:

[cochise]

On the Trailmanor website, the Elkmont specs clearly state "Norcold full-size 2-way refrigerator". There shouldn't be any confusion about this - especially among dealers, but also among buyers.

Bill

Yes Bill...
Thay do state that BUT they also state in their brochure the the Elkmont weighs 2498 lb with a tongue weight of 320 lb. However the truth is that the Elkmont we bought weighed 3600 lb with about 600 lb on the tongue. And yes in the fine print it was defined as "Dry Weight" but when a customer tells the dealer that he is capable of towing 3500 lb total with no more than 350 on the tongue than the dealer should stop his sales pitch and explain, and when you open TM's Elkmont brochure on page two at the top it even states that these can be towed with "the most popular minivans, crossovers and SUV's". 80% of those have a tow limit of 3500 lb and about 350 on the tongue. The trailer manufacturers don't give a crap about customer service as long as they can get rid of their product. And although someone here suggested that I contact RVIA with mu concern, which I did, I am to this date without an answer from them. But than again it is an association protecting the manufacturers, not the customers.

[iamstrail]

Yes the Elkmont only runs on Gas or 110. We used Gas for driving. I know some states will not allow gas if going through tunnels. But if you don't use gas you might have a real mess after a day long drive to the next campsite.

I don't understand this post. Are you saying the refrig/freezer will not be kept cold while Elkmont is being towed?

I find the red manual very hard to interpret as well since geared toward folding models and told TM rep (son of owner) about it. He just agreed, but we have not seen anything different being sent to us.

The recall on the AC is quite a bummer-have to travel some distance for req'd service.

Anyone have suggestions for the toilet lid and seat hitting the curved wall when in up position? Will not stay up, has to be held open. Pretty inconvenient for male passengers! thanks, von iams

[brulaz]

I don't understand this post. Are you saying the refrig/freezer will not be kept cold while Elkmont is being towed?

I find the red manual very hard to interpret as well since geared toward folding models and told TM rep (son of owner) about it. He just agreed, but we have not seen anything different being sent to us.

The recall on the AC is quite a bummer-have to travel some distance for req'd service.

Anyone have suggestions for the toilet lid and seat hitting the curved wall when in up position? Will not stay up, has to be held open. Pretty inconvenient for male passengers! thanks, von iams

Just leave the frig in auto mode and leave your propane tanks on. When you unplug the 120V, check the propane light on the frig. It should come on to indicate that you are using propane.

Agreed about the manual.

The AC recall only applies to Carrier models. Our Elkmont did not come with a Carrier AC, so no recall service necessary.

Our toilet lid stays up, but it is vertical, touching the wall corner. I can see if the toilet were positioned slightly to the right, we would have your problem. Not sure what to suggest: self-adhesive velcro patches? some sort of latch on the wall?

[cochise]

I don't understand this post. Are you saying the refrig/freezer will not be kept cold while Elkmont is being towed?

I find the red manual very hard to interpret as well since geared toward folding models and told TM rep (son of owner) about it. He just agreed, but we have not seen anything different being sent to us.

The recall on the AC is quite a bummer-have to travel some distance for req'd service.

Anyone have suggestions for the toilet lid and seat hitting the curved wall when in up position? Will not stay up, has to be held open. Pretty inconvenient for male passengers! thanks, von iams

Just make sure the gas light is STEADY ON, NOT FLASHING. Should it flash, just turn it to OFF, wait 10-15 seconds and try again. Once it is a solid yellow light you are OK.

[iamstrail]

Thanks brulaz and cochise for suggestions. Yes, ours is a carrier a/c. Dealer told us not to drive with propane tanks on. So if not plugged in to electrical and not running propane are we just left with what cold the refer has built up while running?
(Sorry, we are just so new to all this and MUCH more complicated than we ever anticipated). thanks again, v iams
PS When I posted about brake noise/surging, Someone said our truck may be too light, I checked Ridgeline owners manual and says we can tow 4750 lbs with 2-3 passengers. (2 of us and 1 dog). Does this seem OK?

[brulaz]

Dealer told us not to drive with propane tanks on. So if not plugged in to electrical and not running propane are we just left with what cold the refer has built up while running?

Yes. But there are differences of opinion on whether to run with propane or not. Some people will not do it for safety reasons. Your dealer may have recommended against it for both safety and liability reasons. Others do. We do. You'll just have to weigh the pros and cons and decide for yourself.

There's also differences of opinion about how heavy duty your tow vehicle has to be. The Ridgeline is definitely better than a minivan, and there's at least one person on this board towing with a minivan. So, again, read all the advice, go for a few trips and see how the rig handles and then decide whether you are comfortable with your T.V.

It will all come together eventually, but it's definitely overwhelming at first. There were times when I would wake up at night wondering if we had made the right decision. But now, we are very pleased.

[Beak12]

We have owned at least 7 RV's of different types. Class C, Class B, and 3 Class A's and all of them used Gas when on the road. Some had a Auto switch which made the change for us and some we made the switch as we left the campground. The only one we had that offered 12V was my 2720SL. Which we used when on the road. We did unplug from the TV when we stopped for lunch if we thought we would be longer than 45 Min. So with my new Elkmont we will use gas as we travel. I will ck the different state rules about use of gas in tunnels.

[mtnguy]

For those Elkmont owners that don't want to go down the road with the propane on to run the fridge, there was an inventive solution brought up on another forum that I am a member of to cool the fridge using an inverter while traveling down the road.

Check out post # 13: http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4299&highlight=fridge

Leaving the propane on while traveling was an eye opener for me also, as I was used to the 3-way fridge in the fold-down Trailmanor. But have now joined the multitudes that leave the fridge on propane while under way.

[Bill]

Some years back, we had a long discussion on this board about using an inverter to power the TM's 3-way refrig while on the road. The motivation was partly the same - reluctance to leave propane turned on - and partly different - the inability of some tow vehicles to supply enough 12-volt power to run the refrig, and the resulting dead TM battery at the end of the day.

A lot of the discussion seems to be missing, undoubtedly lost in the board conversion that happened in 2002. However, there might be some useful content left.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2837

Bill

[iamstrail]

Hello Bill: If this applies to the Elkmont refrigerator, would you be able to give me access (or reprint info here)? I cannot get the link to work. Thank you, von iams

[ShrimpBurrito]

iamstrail -

You do not have access to that thread because your 30-day trial membership expired last year. As a result, you are missing about 90% of the forum, which is alot of info!

That thread had posts from a number of members discussing a few different ideas. You can gain access to it and the other 90% of the forum that you are missing by becoming a member for $12/year. The membership helps defray the expenses of running this forum, and prevents having advertisements being plastered all over the place.

In my opinion, and I think in the opinion of most, if not all, of our active members, the cost is a pittance in comparison to the cost of ownership of a TM, and will likely be the best $12 you'll ever spend in relation to your trailer. It has been for me, and I'm coming up on my 4th year of membership.

More info, and a link to sign up for membership, is here:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_membership

Dave

[iamstrail]

Could not access this part of forum. We re-newed our membership when purchased Elkmont in Oct. '09. Pls advise. Thank you, von iams

[iamstrail]

Just leave the frig in auto mode and leave your propane tanks on. When you unplug the 120V, check the propane light on the frig. It should come on to indicate that you are using propane.

Agreed about the manual.

The AC recall only applies to Carrier models. Our Elkmont did not come with a Carrier AC, so no recall service necessary.

Our toilet lid stays up, but it is vertical, touching the wall corner. I can see if the toilet were positioned slightly to the right, we would have your problem. Not sure what to suggest: self-adhesive velcro patches? some sort of latch on the wall?

Do you have a 2009 Elkmont, 24'? That is our model. The toilet is situated so far to the right that the lid and seat hit the curved part of wall. When we brought it to dealer's attention they looked very surprised, made a call and said it appears all are that way...???? Is this accurate? thanks, von iams
PS Custom RV agreed to come out about surging brakes when can schedule.
thanks again to everyone who offered suggestions and reassurance.

[iamstrail]

Correction: Ours is a 2010 24'Elkmont, just checked data sheet.
Says completed Aug 2009, we purchased it late in Sept. '09
Sorry for error, vonnie iams

[brulaz]

Do you have a 2009 Elkmont, 24'? That is our model. The toilet is situated so far to the right that the lid and seat hit the curved part of wall. When we brought it to dealer's attention they looked very surprised, made a call and said it appears all are that way...???? Is this accurate?

Ours was built in December 2009. And our toilet lid does NOT hit the curved part of the wall, but comes very close. Also our toilet is NOT the recirculating type which is available for the Elkmont, according to the catalogue.

[Bill]

iamstrail -

Regarding your membership. You initially joined in July '09, and the renewed in October '09. To renew requires payment of the $12 sponsor fee, as outlined in the post pointed out by ShrimpBurrito. You can't renew without it. If you paid the fee and still are not a Site Sponsor, please send a PM (Private Message) to Chris Tretta (member screen name Chris). In it, tell him when you paid, how you paid (check, PayPal, etc), and any relevant information such as check number or PayPal confirmation number. Be sure to include an email address and your real name, since the payment will probably not reflect your screen name. It can be hard to associate a check from Jane Doe with member name GirlDeer.

Chris doesn't check in every day, but he is real good about this stuff. If you don't have an answer in a week, repeat the query in an email to [email protected]. I'll be gone for a bit, but I will send him a query as well.

Bill

[iamstrail]

Thank you, heard from webmaster. Appears ck I sent was for TrailBlazers. Will send $ for full access this week. Thanks again, von iams

[iamstrail]

Ours was built in December 2009. And our toilet lid does NOT hit the curved part of the wall, but comes very close. Also our toilet is NOT the recirculating type which is available for the Elkmont, according to the catalogue.

Does anyone own an 2010 Elkmont assembled prior to Dec. 2009 that has properly opening toilet (does not hit the curved part of bathroom wall?)
Per data card, ours is a Thetford 24300 and is positioned so close to the curving wall that both the lid and seat hit it in the open position.

thanks, v iams http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif

[brulaz]

Per data card, ours is a Thetford 24300 and is positioned so close to the curving wall that both the lid and seat hit it in the open position.

That sounds like the recirculating version of the Thetford. My guess is that they designed the toilet installation for the non-recirculating model, like ours, then forgot that the recirculating version is wider.

[Bill]

Iamstrail -

Thanks for letting us (me) know the result of the membership renewal question. Not often, but once in a while, the problem that you described occurs, and sometimes it is hard to trace down. It never occurred to me that it might be a mixup with the Trailblazers membership. Next time, I'll be smarter, and ask that first.

Thanks again.

Bill