Beware

Wayne and Curlyontop I agree 100% with both of you.
Sorry Bill, but I disagree.
Hope to hear from more new Elkmont owners about their good and bad problems.
Just my opinion..

[cochise]

I did not mean to sound grumpy....or did I? In any case to clarify the furnace issue Bill Moderator, here is a copy of my letter to SUBURBAN (furnace):

February 20, 2010

Louie Richard
Assistant Service Manager
Airxel, Suburban Products


Dear Mr. Richard,

I am turning to you as my last resort in resolving problems with the installation of a Suburban NT-20S furnace in a brand new (purchased 9/22/2009) TrailManor Elkmont 24 Travel Trailer.

The trailer was purchased in Texas and we towed it back to Arizona.

Almost home, we spent the night in New Mexico and it was cold so we tried to fire up the furnace. The very first time we tried to turn on the heat in the trailer, the furnace started up but there was no hot air, and after a while it shut off.

Once back home I tried to find out why it would not give off heat. I had not been supplied with a manual, so we had to guess our way around. I soon found the reason for no heat: The furnace duct work was not there, it had never been hooked up. Over several months we tried to get this resolved. The dealer in Texas told us it was a small matter, and that it could be fixed in a matter of minutes. We ended up taking it to a dealer in Tucson, Freedom RV. They in turn contacted TrailManor and were told to get the problem fixed. It took them 6 hours to get it done as they had to turn the water tank 90° to accommodate a duct to the sleeping area.

Recently I was advised by Freedom RV that they had been asked by TrailManor to “undo” the job as they did not think it necessary, and would not pay for it. Several times I had asked both the dealer and TrailManor to supply me with a user manual, but I never got one. I finally found the Suburban Customer Service and was emailed a manual, based on the information in a Data Card that TM had enclosed in an information package. As it turned out it was not correct. When I spoke to you on 2/12/2010, you informed me, based on the ser. Number on the unit, that it was a different model I had, and you kindly emailed me both the installation and owner manual. From that I learned that the furnace could not have been installed correctly by TM.

Next I contacted TM’s cust. Serv, one Ed Lytle, who than emailed me the enclosed email, stating that the furnace had been installed in accordance with guide lines from Suburban, and that the return air set-up had been approved by a “representative from Suburban”, and that: “All our appliance installations are approved by the manufacturer”. (Please see the attached email from TM). I find all of their explanations very hard to believe.


Fact:
The furnace is installed perpendicular to the left side of the trailer. It is skewed about 20° to 25° to the furnace centerline, with less than marginal clearance at the front.

There is NO any way to access the furnace for maintenance, except to completely dismantle it and remove for routine maintenance.

It is NOT screwed to the floor as outlined in the installation manual. The only things holding it in place are the LP gas line and the combustion and exhaust tubes at the rear of the furnace thru the outside wall.

The return air opening consists of a ½” by 53” gap between the seat frame and the seat front. (It is likely that before the seat and the front was padded with foam and fabric there MIGHT have been a ¾” to 1” clearance. However that is not there now). And when one or two persons sit on this seat it is further depressed, decreasing the gap further. In addition to the gap there is also a 4” vent giving an additional 12 sq. Inch opening for a total of 38.5 Square inch area of return air space.

It is sitting on top of a bunch of wires.

The exhaust and supply tubes from the outside for the furnace is only 1/8” from the Styrofoam wafer between the outer and inner skin of the side wall of the trailer.

TrailManor passes the blame for the poor installation (with code violations) to Suburban by claiming that the installation was done pursuant to installation instructions by Suburban, and thus creates a potential for liability for Suburban for any mishaps in the future.

My wife and I fear using the trailer as is, because we feel that it has serious safety flaws and that we cannot reasonably maintain the furnace as prescribed in the user’s manual due to the flawed installation.

I find it hard to believe that Suburban issues strict installation instructions that MUST BE FOLLOWED by some and can be disregarded by others. Especially when one reads the following:

WARNING: Installation of this appliance must be made in accordance with the written instructions provided in this manual. No agent, representative or employee of Suburban or other person has the authority to change, modify or waive any provision of the instructions contained in this manual.

This warning seems to be contradicted in the email from Mr. Ed Lytle at TrailManor.

I have enclosed the emails to/from TrailManor and photos I have taken of the installation.

Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated thank you.

Sincerely,

name withheld.

It should also be noted that this is an issue that has been going on since September 2009, and still is far from resolved. TM keeps saying that they have gotten the OK from SUBURBAN, and they say that if ANYONE at SUBURBAN had OK'ed that, they would still be looking for work, because they would have been fired. Every time we have approached TM with questions about this and other issues, Mr. Michael Hulsey has a new answer, (not always the same for the same question). I think I stated earlier that there has been a "management" change at TM due to illness or poor health, and THAT may be the explanation as to why these problems are still around.

Suburban has told me that the installation in my trailer ($ 25000.00 + cash) is downright INSANE, those were the words used. And we were told: DO NOT USE THAT FURNACE UNTIL IT HAS BEEN INSTALLED CORRECTLY!

Happy camping to all of you.

Same here from Norcold about our refrigerator. We were told not to use the unit PERIOD!!!

I think it's normal to hear about problems on Forums like this. Most people who have no problems are off enjoying their trailer or car or whatever and will not be spending much time here.

Personally, I appreciate hearing about these issues. When we pick up our Elkmont in a couple of weeks, I will be going over it carefully thanks to this forum.

And I, likewise, agree that this thread should be continued. I want to know the resolution and if others have had problems with their RV. I firmly believe that issues of this type should be documented and discussed. This forum is NOT just a forum to rave the benefits of a very expensive TM, but to discuss everything, which includes problems from the manufacturer.
I, personally, do not feel the two folks that have reported problems here should be even considered that they are the same person. That, to me, is a cheap shot (sorry Bill). Maybe, both writers could have been more diplomatic, but having these problems would upset me to no end and I am sure my language, on this 'family forum' would have me expelled immediately.

I have had no problem whatsoever with my TM, that was not rectified by the manufacturer. I can only hope that eventually these folks do get these issues straightened out to there satisfaction.

Mike Anderson

Cochise,
I have a question for you since you have done a lot of research of the furnace. After looking at mine I find that there is to ducting going from the furnace to a round vent at the front of the bench facing the foot of the bed. Is there suppose to be one?? There is a foil flex ducting going to the bathroom wall but I can’t see were it come out in the bathroom.

I can answer this one for Cochise---That is supposed to be there, ours wasn't hooked to the vent. If you look closely behind the left hand side of your toilet you will see where the heat comes out.

[Bill]

The discussion of problems and solutions will of course continue. We have never suppressed the airing of TM problems and solutions, whether they are solutions devised by members, or solutions by the TM company. And we have never taken a "roses only" approach to discussion of TMs and the problems we encounter. In fact, we have had any number of posts from prospective owners who express concern about becoming owners because this board seems to show that TMs have huge numbers of problems. We - many of us - have reassured these people by saying that TMs, like any other vehicle, can and do have problems, but the problems can and will be solved by calm and rational discussion with each other and with the TM Company. The first 20 or so posts in this thread reflect that philosophy, and I think it still stands.

What needs to stop is the flames, along with discussions of lawsuits, horse poop, getting screwed, and allegations of gross incompetence that have characterized much of this discussion. None of that solves, or even addresses, the issues at hand. We all want to know the outcome of these issues, but this board has never allowed itself to become a forum for flamefests as a method of solving problems.

I hope everyone is in agreement with that.

Bill

[

What needs to stop is the flames, along with discussions of lawsuits, horse poop, getting screwed, and allegations of gross incompetence that have characterized much of this discussion. None of that solves, or even addresses, the issues at hand. We all want to know the outcome of these issues, but this board has never allowed itself to become a forum for flamefests as a method of solving problems.

I hope everyone is in agreement with that.

Bill[/QUOTE]

Yes Bill I'm in agreement---BUT-- sometimes you just got to Dump And where better than with folk who wll understand and give you a hand up.
John

[4Kids2Dogs]

I actually thought the mushroom comment was kinda funny...
Even though I've not had any trouble, I sure can empathize with someone who has. It's a big investment. I, too, am interested to see how it works out.