Honda EU2000i generator at Camping World

[B_and_D]

If we didn't have our power going out all the time here at home, I would have chosen the smaller generator (1000 vs. 2000). It's smaller, lighter and a little more quiet than the 2000. So far we've used the 2000 more at home than we have camping, and I suspect that will continue to be the norm for us.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Bob - Well, the sticker on the inside of the fridge says it takes 8.3A at 120VAC, which is 996 watts. I presume that is normal operation (not starting).... Dave

Dave (and Bob too): The TM fridge (unlike the Air Conditioner, and unlike the refrigerators we use at home) doesn't use a compressor. All the energy is used to generate heat, just like a toaster. The power consumption is constant for a given voltage, and never changes. If you offer it 120V, it will consumes and generates 996 watts, because there's never a "startup" power surge. (It also never feels gas pressure in the pipes, it's purely external to the sealed coolant tubing.) Less volts makes less watts, more volts makes more watts. In contrast, there definitely is such a surge with the Air Conditioner, and to a much smaller extent, the heater fan and water pump. They all have motors.
- - - - -
Still, to get back on topic: It would be really stupid to run a "1000 watt max" generator with a 996 watt load. (Good gensets won't even let you do that; after 1/2 minute or so, they'll shut down with an "overload" indication.) Anyway, when you're off-grid, it's much more efficient and smart to use the propane burner instead.

[ShrimpBurrito]

rickst29 - Yes, I know TM fridge doesn't use a compressor, but we are actually talking about a home fridge. I think you probably misread the posts.

I measured the power draw on my home fridge...the one that says 8.3A on the inside sticker. I now think a 1000W genny may indeed be able to run my fridge.

I think there are several electrical components to the fridge, all of which can turn on/off at any time:

- self-defrost heaters: 480W
- compressor: 175W
- fridge light: 75W
- freezer light: 40W
- ice maker heater (which heats briefly to release ice cubes from the tray): 100W (I read this somewhere, not measured)

TOTAL POWER = 870W

So I could be missing 100W somewhere.

When I first plugged it back in, it immediately started drawing 480 watts, but the compressor was not running -- in fact, it was virtually silent. So I presume those are just the self-defrost heaters, because no ice came out. Eventually, the heaters turned off and then later the compressor kicked on. It only draws about 175 watts, so if nothing else in the fridge in running, a 1000W genny is probably enough to start it. There was a power factor of 0.99 when the compressor was running -- it doesn't get much better than that.

The ice cub maker can be turned off and the light bulbs can be removed, so that eliminates ~215W.

So I would want to test it before saying either way now, but this is good to know.

Dave

Ok, so let me understand this. I believe my little tv is 3 amp, 36 watt. So if I took a 1200 watt battery pack and divided it by 12 volts = 100 amps then divide my 3 amp television, and I should get approx. 33 hours run time before I deplete the battery. Is that correct. Something that looks like this? Only this one is 1800 watts.

http://www.12volt-travel.com/1800-wa...rt-p-9753.html

What would be the difference in usability between these two units in the above scenerio?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...+Power&x=0&y=0

[ShrimpBurrito]

Those 1800 watt and 1200 watt specs are not related to battery capacity -- they just tell you the maximum amount of power you can get out of the battery at any given second. So those numbers are not helpful in determining how long your TV will run. What you need to know is how many "amp hours" (Ah) or "watt hours" (Wh) the battery has, which typically is a much harder number to find.

The one you referred to at Amazon (The Xantrex Powerpack 600 Watt Jumpstarter) has a capacity of 28 Ah. That battery probably cannot be discharged past 50% before the voltage drops to the point where you can no longer power the TV. That means you have 14 Ah of useable power.

To calculate the number of hours that 14 Ah will run your TV that draws 3 amps, divide 14 by 3, which is roughly 4.5 hours.

That unit is 29 lbs, and most of that is battery. If you want to be able to run your TV longer, you need a bigger battery, and weight is close to being directly proportional to capacity. So if you want a battery that will run your TV for 7 hours, you need a 50-60 lb unit.

You'll get alot more bang for your buck if you get two 6v deep cycle batteries for your TM, and run your TV from there. You won't have to lug batteries in/out of the TM, you'll get much more run time, and a pair will cost you about the same as that Xantrex unit referred to above.

Dave

Thanks Shrimp Baritto for that explanation. With a generator, if you ran your two 6 volt batteries down 1/2 power, how long would you have to run your generator to recharge them up. These other type batteries take 6 to 8 hours to recharge.

[ShrimpBurrito]

That depends on the size of your batteries and the charge rate of your charger. The higher the charge rate in amps, the faster the batteries will charge.

My Trojan T105s have 225Ah of capacity, so if they were down to 50%, they need ~112Ah of charge. But since the process of charging is not 100% efficient, you need to deliver more than 112Ah to charge them back to 100%. Charge efficiency is probably about 90%, so in this case, you need to deliver ~125Ah back to the batteries.

If you got a charger that could deliver 25A, which would be about the highest charge rate I would want to use for these batteries, you're looking at 125/25 = about 5-7 hours. I say more than 5 hours because the last 20% of the charge will take a little longer if you use a good charger, as the charge rate will drop much below 25A.

But the good thing is that these batteries would run your 3A TV for a very long time. If you ran nothing else on the batteries (which isn't going to happen, but just to compare to the other units), it would run the TV for about 50 hours (which would discharge the batteries down to 30%). So you could get away with just running the genny for an hour a day.....that would likely take care of most of your needs.

You've probably realized by now your camping life would be alot easier if you traded the TV in for a book...or even a Kindle.

Dave

[Bill]

Dave -

Regarding your home refrig, I think you are (and can be) in better shape than you think.

First, the defrost heater and the compressor don't run at the same time. If you dig up a schematic, you'll find that the defrost cycle and the compressor are mutually exclusive. The defrost cycle is on a timer, and while there isn't a real easy way to defeat it without access to the timer, the defrost cycle doesn't run very often - maybe 15 minutes a day?

Second, you can disable the ice maker by simply raising the feeler bail in the ice bucket.

Third, you can unscrew the light bulbs. Power failures are tough times, and the refrig is dark inside, but I think you're up to dealing with it.

This leaves you with the compressor, operating intermittently at 175 watts for most of the time, and an occasional burst of defrost heater.

It has been my experience that if you fire up the generator once every four hours, and plug the refrig into it for half an hour, it will stay perfectly cold. Then in the down times, you can carry your genny over to the neighbor's house, give their refrig a shot of juice - and be a HERO, to whom they owe an everlasting debt!

Bill

[ShrimpBurrito]

Bill,

Thanks for confirming the fact that the heater and compressor operation are mutually exclusive. That helps alot. Since 1000W should be plenty, maybe I could just get away with using an inverter.....a pure sine wave inverter would probably be best given the motor. One of those can be had for ~$200, and wouldn't require maintenance. I'd be fine with starting the car every 4 hrs for 30 min AND it would be easier to help juice up the neighbors since they could use their own cars!

The problem with the genny is that I need to store fuel for it, and because my lawn mower doesn't take any gas (it's a reel type), I don't have any more than a gallon around at a time (in a can). And gas stations aren't likely to be online in a power failure, so that leaves propane...and a propane conversion kit, adding a few hundred more dollars.

Dave

My Honda 2000 will run for about 45 minutes on a pint of gas. That is enough to keep my TM going in the forest as long as I run it once a day. But, we never watch TV. Nothing on it to watch. You don't need a lot of gas for just a few days. Just steal some from your car, unless they are all diesel.

If you have power outages that last for several weeks then you will need a lot of gas.

You have my sympathy. I live where there is reliable power. I have had one unscheduled outage since 1986. And only about 3 planned outages.