Battery Questions -- Help!!!!

I've gone over many of the posts related to batteries, charging, and maintenance. I haven't quite found the one that fits my particular problems. But I'm a dunce with electrical issues.

First I need to explain my setup. I have a TM3124KS that my wife and I purchased used in November of 2006. It was a 2005 model. We purchased it from the dealer. It had the optional solar package installed from the factory. We have used it about 6 times -- 3 locally and 3 after long trips. Inbetween times it has remained parked in our driveway not being used for almost 6 months.

I've recently been experiencing battery problems. For example, when using the electric tongue jack it quit working after a very short time and I had to revert by plugging back into my vehicle to get enough power complete my unhooking process. Prior to that the trailer had been hooked up to RV campground power and to our vehicle power and should not have experienced this problem -- so I need to ask several questions:

1). How often does one have to perform battery maintenance on a battery that is connected to a solar array?

2). Dosen't the solar array always keep the battery trickle charged to full capacity?

3). What would cause the battery to appear to become discharged?

4). How long does it take for a deep cell battery to be fully recharged?

5). I've read in other threads that solar arrays are very hard on deep cell batteries. Is this true?

6). Should I take my battery back to the dealer and have him test it?

7). My wife and I haven't done any dry camping but prefer to camp in RV parks or State parks with hookups. If the battery is bad, what is the recommended replacement?

I am with you...electrically challenged. So I can't answer most of your questions. But I did recently have a problem similar to that which you described. I found that my battery fuse had fried for no apparent reason and without my knowledge and I was getting no charge to the batteries. Worked fine on shore power, but the batteries would not even turn on the lights. Fixed the fuse and all seems well. By the way, it is a 30 amp inline fuse located near your batteries. Good luck and I look forward to learning from the more sophisticated replies!

I'll try to answer each question as you have asked them:
1). How often does one have to perform battery maintenance on a battery that is connected to a solar array?
A. The solar array has little impact on maintaining a battery system, although it may be easier on the battery(s) than a trickle charger. The primary point is to check the water level in the battery(s) monthly. Make sure the posts on the battery(s) are clean of any corrosion build-up. Clean with a wire brush if they need cleaning.

2). Doesn't the solar array always keep the battery trickle charged to full capacity?
A. It should, just as a trickle charger will. Again, check the water level monthly.

3). What would cause the battery to appear to become discharged?
A. Water level may be low. You may have other "parasitic" discharges on your system, such as LP detector, CO2 detector, etc.

4). How long does it take for a deep cell battery to be fully recharged?
A. The answer depends on how discharged it was. With a charger set at about 5 amps it could take up to 24 hours to recharge. I wouldn't charge it at a higher rate for fear of damaging the battery permanently. Your solar system, if working correctly, should be able to handle a "gentle" recharge and when the battery is fully charged "kick down" to a trickle charge of 1.5 amps or less.

5). I've read in other threads that solar arrays are very hard on deep cell batteries. Is this true?
A. I am not familiar with the intricacies of solar arrays, however, I would not think any properly operating charging system will be hard on deep cycle batteries.

6). Should I take my battery back to the dealer and have him test it?
A. Yes, before you consider taking any other action to recharge the battery, make sure the battery(s) you are working with are good.

7). My wife and I haven't done any dry camping but prefer to camp in RV parks or State parks with hookups. If the battery is bad, what is the recommended replacement?
A. There are deep cycle, sealed, gel, and all popular brands of AGM dry-type, valve-regulated batteries, such as Interstate, Exide, Optima, Odyssey, Trojan and U.S. Battery. Lots of folks swear by the AGM or the gel type. Another thing to consider is to get 2 6-volt golf car batteries, wire them in series to produce 12 volts. They have a higher amp capacity than 2 12-volt deep cycle batteries have, thus producing more amperage for a longer period of time when dry camping. Whatever you do, if you put 2 batteries on your trailer, buy them together... same brand, same size, etc.

I hope this helps you find the problem and get on to enjoying your TM. If other questions come up, please ask. There are lots of good folks with good information on this site.

Paul, you suggest to not exceed 5 amps when recharging. My charger only has options of either 2 amp or 12 amp. Should I not use the 12 amp option?
My Optima battery suggests charging voltage: 14.4v. Is that the voltage I should see when it is fully charged?

Originally Posted by jcjim4

Paul, you suggest to not exceed 5 amps when recharging. My charger only has options of either 2 amp or 12 amp. Should I not use the 12 amp option?
My Optima battery suggests charging voltage: 14.4v. Is that the voltage I should see when it is fully charged?

Don't confuse amps with volts. Yes, 13.5 to 14.4 VOLTS is what you want in a fully charged battery. Amps is the "capacity" your battery has to run the various appliances in your trailer, including lights. A Group 27 12 volt deep cycle battery will have approx. 85-105 Amp hours. That means that if you operate a light that draws 2 amps, you can run that light for approx. 42 to 52 hours before the battery is depleted. When the battery is fully discharged, it will still show you that it has about 10>5 VOLTS, but there is no capacity left in it to operate a light bulb.

My recommendation is to charge your battery using the 2 amp option rather than the 12 amp option. The reason is that if the battery is seriously discharged, a 'quick charge' using the 12 amp option could buckle the plates and boil the water out of the battery in a short period of time. You can leave the 2 amp option on for 24 hours without fear of overcharging or over-heating the battery. So, a slow, longer charge is more effective than a quick 'hot' charge. When the battery nears a full charge, does your charger automatically shut off, or cut back the charge to a trickle (.5 to 1.5 amps)? If not, you need to watch it closely to make sure it doesn't damage the battery after the charger has been on for several hours.

10/21/07: Since you have an Optima Brand battery, I pulled this information from the Optima Website:
Battery Storage
Because of the high purity lead grid in the OPTIMA battery, it has a self-discharge rate much lower than conventional flat-plate batteries. This means the OPTIMA can sit for longer periods retaining enough charge to start your vehicle. Depending on storage temperature, the OPTIMA can usually sit for 8 to 12 months and start most vehicles.

When possible, store your battery in a cool, dry location. Check the battery voltage every 6 months and charge if it falls below 12.6 volts.

Remember, newer vehicles with on-board electronics such as computers, LCD screens, game systems, GPS units, clocks, etc., require battery power to retain system memory while the vehicle is parked. If the vehicle is to be stored for long periods you should use a maintenance charger to compensate for this drain. This charger should be voltage regulated between 13.2 - 13.8 volts, 1 amp maximum. (Paul's note: This is what is referred to as a trickle charge.) On older vehicles, without electronics, disconnect the battery cables when the vehicle is not being used for extended periods.
©2007 OPTIMA Batteries Media

I hope this helps.

[Bill]

A couple other comments to add to the good ones above.

Your TM is a 2005 model. If it still has the original battery (built in 2004), the battery may simply have died of old age.

I believe that the factory solar-power option is an 80-watt panel. That should be more than enough to keep the battery fully charged provided that the panel is in direct sunlight for the better part of an hour or so per day. Most folks realize that a panel won't generate power if you put the TM in the garage, or put a cover over it. It is perhaps less obvious that it won't charge if you put the TM under a carport, or if the driveway is in the shade of the house, or is heavily tree-shaded. DIRECT sun on the panel is needed.

A proper solar system is not hard on deep-cycle batteries. I'm not sure where you heard that. Most "real" solar systems (big enough to power your house, for example) are built around deep cycle batteries, because they are more tolerant of the charge/discharge cycles that are inherent in solar power systems.

Paul's discussion of amp-hours (battery capacity) is correct, but in his example he probably should have mentioned that you shouldn't discharge the battery below 50% if you can avoid it. Thus the mention of "42 to 52 hours" perhaps should have been caveated with the phrase "Of course, a practical limit would be 21 to 26 hours, since a battery should not be discharged below 50%." Deep cycle batteries are more tolerant of deep discharge than standard motor-start batteries, but life will be maximized if you observe the 50% limit.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

Paul's discussion of amp-hours (battery capacity) is correct, but in his example he probably should have mentioned that you shouldn't discharge the battery below 50% if you can avoid it. Thus the mention of "42 to 52 hours" perhaps should have been caveated with the phrase "Of course, a practical limit would be 21 to 26 hours, since a battery should not be discharged below 50%." Deep cycle batteries are more tolerant of deep discharge than standard motor-start batteries, but life will be maximized if you observe the 50% limit.

Bill

Bill's comments about the "practical limit" are right on. It is difficult, however, to determine the percentage of useage when you are out in the "boonies." If you watch the intensity of your light bulbs, for instance, you can tell when they are dimming... a sure sign the battery is getting low. Of course, having a volt meter with you is another good indicator of how low the battery is getting.

Another good tool to have with you, in addition to a volt meter that reads up to 15VDC, is a hydrometer. It tells you the "specific gravity" of the water (acid) in your battery and what its condition is. You can buy one for as little as $2 at Wal-Mart or any auto supply store. My experience shows that the $2 unit tells you what you need to know, so to spend more on one seems unnecessary.

As an added point, I had 2 deep-cycle, wet cell 12 volt batteries on my TM and they were in top condition when I sold it after 3 years of use and over 16,000 miles. My present trailer has 2 deep-cycle, wet cell 12 volt batteries, is 5 years old, and they are performing very well. When you maintain them properly, keep them properly charged, and don't completely deplete the charge, they will continue to perform well for many years. During the winter months I keep them on a trickle charge in my garage, checking the water weekly. Your Optima has an excellent reputation and should out perform my standard wet cell batteries. When it is time to replace my wet cells, I will consider one of the new "high tech" battery systems.

I had a 12 volt Trojan on my PUP. When I bought my TM the dealer relayed the following story. He regularly camps with a TM. His first unit had a 12V Trojan - just like my PUP. It would last a little over a day, according to their useage. He had his service department install an additional 12 volt battery in parallel. It would last a little over 2.5 days. Somewhat irritated, he turned it over to his shop. They installed 2 6-volt GC batteries. They would last nearly a week! End of problem. All his trailers now have an 80-watt solar panel installed. I am confident that this system will keep me happy.

It's been a while since I researched the battery issue but my recollection from my housboating days was to run the batteries between 50% and 80% of capacity. Taking them below 50% can do damage. You can bulk charge deep cycle batteries back to 80% of capacity but taking them between 80% and 100% can only be done with a trickle charge.

On the boat I had four 6V Trojan golf cart batteries hooked up in pairs and then connected in parallel. Was able to run a 1800 watt inverter that handled microwave, hair dryer, and sundry other DW appliances without a problem. We could go 4 or 5 days before taking the battery bank down to 50%

I had a monster alternator from a bus that put out lots of current and easily allowed me to recharge back to 80% relatively quickly when anchored out for longer periods. Once back in the marina, I plugged in and the three stage charger in the inverter took us back to 100% for the next trip.

I'm in the process of getting my first TM (Used 2720LS-2004) I have had 5 RV's various brands and sizes. And lived in one for 5 years. It had a manual swtch at the front door that when I left the RV for long periods (like storage) I just through the switch and everything that used power was disconnected so when I got back the batter was not dead (from something drawing power) and I was good to go.
NOW THE REAL QUESTION---I'm having the dealer install solar. 1. Is there a device that keeps the solar unit from overcharging the battery.
2. Is there a switch in the TM that turns everything off so I don't drain the battery?