Beware

Originally Posted by 4Kids2Dogs

I actually thought the mushroom comment was kinda funny...
Even though I've not had any trouble, I sure can empathize with someone who has. It's a big investment. I, too, am interested to see how it works out.

I thought it was funny too. I also think it accurately described his situation.

Been following this for a while now and understand the frustrations, but not the goal of posing threats on this site, As was mentioned earlier, TM unfortunately does not monitor this site so they will not see the comments. Still don't understand this part as I can't think of a better place to understand your market and the needs and wants of your customer.
The thing that amazes me is that TM currently enjoys a unique position in today's RV industry of maintaining prices and gaining marketshare and appears to be forgetting how it got here. If you search the forum for "ED" you will see pages of praises for his customer service. I think some of the issues are the result of trying to develop a product that is a departure from what you do best and is part of the learning curve not unlike Apple and the early iPhone. I am surprised that even with dealer involvement (their contractual representative) they felt they were not responsible. I think an appropriate next course of action would be to request a meeting with an RVIA representative at your dealer and have them take a position on the major safety complaints. I believe that would produce better results than a lawsuit or venting further here.
I think most members of the forum would prefer a slightly more robust and durable product, but understand that this is the trade off we make to have a lightweight easy towing TT that has many of the comforts larger/heavier trailers.
To leave on a high note, I guess you should be thankful you are not towing it with a Toyota Prius.

[Wavery]

I think it a bit naive to think that TM Inc does not read the posts on this forum.

I would be very disappointed if TM did not read these threads to, at the very least, see what consumers are saying about their product and at the best, make adjustments to their product through what they learn from these comments. At the time of this post, this single thread has over 4,000 hits........does anyone think that is not important to TM Inc?? I would think that might translate into several alienated prospective customers and who knows how many lost sales......

I can't imagine any manufacturer that would not find a forum like this, as an invaluable asset to their business. It is not surprising that they do not respond to any of these posts because that could have certain negative legal and ethical implications over time. However, to not use the information that could be gleaned from this forum would be a serious lack of strategic management skill IMO... I give them a lot more credit than that. I really don't think that they are stupid..... However, it may appear that they may be having some quality control and possibly communication issues.

Your only as good as your worst employee.

Calling a fact negative or positive is just an opinion, and we know about opinions.

Many companies use the terms secure and quality and they need gov bailouts to stay in business. If you don't make a good product, you won't stay in business no matter what is being portrayed in any form.

That's my opinion Robert

[cochise]

Originally Posted by kenngeri2720

Cochise,
I have a question for you since you have done a lot of research of the furnace. After looking at mine I find that there is to ducting going from the furnace to a round vent at the front of the bench facing the foot of the bed. Is there suppose to be one?? There is a foil flex ducting going to the bathroom wall but I can’t see were it come out in the bathroom.

KennGeri2770 here are a few photos that should show you what should be there.




In the upper center of the picture, (by all the wires) there is a 4” vent facing the bedroom area. I was under the impression that it would supply heat to the sleeping area, but TM says NO that is the return air vent. (But they also claim that the crack under the long side of the seat serves as the return. GO FIGURE.


Here is the supply duct at the top coming from the furnace, and at the bottom the one to the left is blowing from the short leg of the seat, and the one to the right goes to the bathroom.


This shows the heat vent on the short leg of the seat.


And here is what the furnace looked like when we got the trailer and before the dealer here in Tucson moved the water tank and ran ducts off both sides of the furnace. TM would not pay for it so the work has been left “up in the air” sort of.

Thanks for the photos.

One photo (the original installation photo) shows no supply ducting to the bathroom/bench-front, yet another photo shows ducting. Was this missing, temporarily disconnected, or not-connected (like curley-on-top's)?

If it was missing or not connected I can see why you wouldn't get much heat as the hot air would just recirculate under the seat.

With respect to paying for warranty repairs, it sounds like there was some mis-communication between the manufacturer and your repair people or yourself. It's been my experience that manufacturers will only pay for repairs that they have pre-approved.

Cochise,

This is very different from my 2009 Elkmont. The furnace on mine comes out through the front of the bench wall just like the other TM’s and has one flex tubing going to the bathroom. I have used the furnace in the mountains (RMNP) 20 degrees F last year with no problems other than I could use more heat in the bathroom. One thing I saw in your pictures that I don’t have, is the white plastic box marked “WARNING” what is that. I have had some problems with my Elkmont that should have been caught on a factory QA inspection, but nothing major. We are very lucky here in Colorado to have a dealer like the “Car Show Inc.” that has fixed everything that was wrong. I have depended upon my dealer to work with the factory to resolve problems this is what your dealer should be doing. Your dealer in TX took your money but did not provide you with the proper customer service, it is their job to insure you are complete satisfied with your Elkmont. With all that said I can understand your frustration that after spending all of that money you are left holding the bag. I feel it is like buying a car it is the dealers job not the manufactures to fix the problems unless it is a product recall. If it were me I would put max pressure on the TX dealer to the point that I would request that they reimburse you to take it back down to them. Let them fight with the manufacture to get their money back. Good luck and keep us informed as to your outcome we are pulling for you to be completely satisfied with your Elkmont and enjoy many many years of camping fun.

Originally Posted by kenngeri2720

One thing I saw in your pictures that I don’t have, is the white plastic box marked “WARNING” what is that.

Looks like a battery box to me. But I thought other photos (maybe of earlier models?) showed the battery to be up at the front. Maybe it's been moved around for some reason.

First thing I'll do when we pick up our Elkmont next week is take a look under the settee and see how things look there. I guess it's pretty easy to take the seats up?

Originally Posted by curlyontop

Same here from Norcold about our refrigerator. We were told not to use the unit PERIOD!!!

Curly, could you amplify on this a bit? I think you are the ones in litigation so there may be reasons you cannot, but I, for one, would like to know what I should be looking for regarding the refrigerator when we pick up our Elkmont next week.

[cochise]

To answer "Brulaz" first: The photo to the far right shows the furnace as installed by TM with absolutely no duct work connected. The second photo show duct work connected at the Tucson dealer after TM had approved it. They later reneged on that. The water tank adjacent to the furnace had to be turned 90 degrees and new holes drilled etc. And that was the reason we had no heat. It just sat there under the bench getting hotter and hotter but not for us.
To answer "kenngeri2770": There are 2 almost identical models of furnaces, one is the NT-20-SE and the other is NT-20-S. The difference is that the SE has the discharge thru the front panel which most likely is placed in the front of the long side of the bench. The S model is a closed unit with discharges on both sides of the unit, one should go to the short end of the bench as seen in the third picture, and than via a "T" or "Y" to the bathroom. That one terminates right behind the "throne" a few inches above floor level. flow is probably restricted due to the very close proximity to the toilet base. And the red warning label is on the battery box, warning of "sulfuric fumes that must be vented to the outside".
And yes it is very easy to lift the seat, as a matter of fact the brochure says it will sleep 4. Well that is where the 2 that don't sleep in the queen bed will sleep. It is actually only fir for smaller children, and the table has to be removed for that use.