Really long page download times

[Bill]

Well, you are right that the site works well with Internet Explorer, a Microsoft product. The problems occur with older versions of Netscape - a Microsoft competitor.

So I upgraded my old and much-beloved Netscape 4.79 to Netscape 7.1. It is huge, and it runs kind of slowly on my PC, but the site works and the page load is reasonably fast.

Thanks to Carol for some good discussion, that led to my making this move.

Chris, do you (or anyone) remember the Browser Wars? I ran the source code for some of the pages on this site through an independent HTML validator (http://validator.w3.org). The source code is riddled with HTML errors - but strangely enough, the errors affect only Netscape. It might be because the source code was written with a Front Page, another Microsoft product. I'm sure if the Yahoo code-writing guys had corrected the errrors (it's easy to do), this situation wouldn't have arisen. But they didn't, so here we are. Netscape - Microsoft's only real competition - was forced to knuckle under and rewrite Netscape to accomodate the intentional HTML errors. But in the process, they were weakened enough that they have now been taken over by AOL.

'Nuff complaining. I love the new site, Chris, so I shall complain no more.

Bill

[Chris]

Bill,
Actually most of the developers are Unix and Linux heads and HATE Microsoft. I think it is more a case that the developers are using browsers that are very microsoft compatible. The other thing to remember is that the HTML code is generated on the fly by the PHP code that it is using. It is rare to see anyone using pure HTML anymore as the independent bodies keep trying to standardize, Microsoft just does it, and because of their size and install base, people and standard groups follow.

Now, understand my bias as well. I am part of Intel's Information Technology group. I have been for 10 years. I have watched the war happen, and have a built in Microsoft bias. We use their products with great success supporting over 85,000 users worldwide. I have supported and engineered and administered and tested and used and been bitched at for their products. I am a bigger fan than not.

I love talking this stuff. I must be a bigger geek than I thought. Just as a reference, I am 35, and started with computers in 1976. I have always enjoyed them, but never as much as I did when I started making my living understanding them.
Thanks
Ct..

Lol, I hate Microsoft as well, and am Linux disfunctional......(Tried it, found myself out on a boat without a clue what to do). Lol X windows was a mystery for about two days why it wouldn't all fit on my screen at once, so gave up on it, but hey, Apple should have let others build software to fit their machine.......Lol now they have a Masarati that only will run on 2% of the roads! Oh well.....(Don't know much about that either, just know it's a lot more stable, but not very compatible). My first puter was a Bally, makers of Pac Man, the home version, right about the time of the Atari.........To program it with the "Bally Basic" cartridge, you'd have to hit "alt A" for a one, "Shift B" for a plus sign.......or something like that..........Chuckle, as I'm 35 as well, call me a nerd as well.......lol...... "Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down". "So call me a Weeble"! lol

[glow=red,2,300]Happytrails............[/glow]

Bill

I'm also having long load times for each (30 sec. or more) page. The new site seems to stall Netscape.
Did you have any problems upgrading to the newer version? Also will I have any problems with keeping my
my bookmarks and address book. Any ideas would be helpful. At present reading all of the Posts takes most
of the night.

Thanks Ntech

[mjlaupp]

Am using Windows XP Home, Netscape Communicator 6.2 and Direct PC from Earthlink. The new site loads much faster than the old.

Not LOL!
What Microsoft has done to the open programming languages is criminal. However, they own the the majority of the OS's out there and most users fall right into the trap of learning the Microsoft applications provided with their computer, not knowing that there are better and faster programs availiable. The scary part about this is that most users don't care. What they have is what they know and they are not going to try something different. This is a form of brainwashing. The end goal of Microsoft is the control of all of the electronic communications world wide. The day is coming when we will all be required to pay homage and sacrifice to the Gates God before our computers, telephones,radios and TVs will work.

I don't have a bias about this issue, I'm running scared! I'm watching them make inroads into the controls industry now. How would You like your local nuclear power plant controlled by a Microsoft OS computer? So what if it "blue screens", the reactor will wait until the control system is re-booted.

Sorry 'bout the soap box, but a button was pushed.
MJL

[Bill]

[quote author=Ntech link=board=1;threadid=1026;start=0#msg7302 date=1059193272]
Bill

I'm also having long load times for each (30 sec. or more) page. The new site seems to stall Netscape.
Did you have any problems upgrading to the newer version? Also will I have any problems with keeping my
my bookmarks and address book. Any ideas would be helpful. At present reading all of the Posts takes most
of the night.

Thanks Ntech
[/quote]Ntech -

I'm with you - browsing the board when messsages take 30 seconds to 2 minutes per page to load just isn't practical. That is why I threw in the towel, and upgraded.

I am happy to report that the upgrade was quick and easy. It picked up MOST of my previous settings, and appears to have picked up all the earlier email folders and so forth.

Having said that, let me make a few comments.
1. The Netscape 7.1 Install file is HUGE - almost 30MB. If you have broadband, no sweat, but if you are on dialup, you might do better just to send in the $5 and get a CD. Your call. Because it is so big, it runs a bit slowly on my old Pentium 133/Win98SE machine. Of course, it runs much faster on my wife's 2.4 GHz/WinXP machine. The installation process was identical on both.
2. Although I continue to refer to 7.1 as an Upgrade, it really isn't. It is a brand-new program, and will install itself in a whole separate area of your machine. You install the new Netscape before you un-install the old Netscape. I saw a note somewhere saying that this seqence is what enables it to pick up your old settings and folders. I have been running 7.1 for a few days now to get used to it, and will shortly un-install 4.79. However, since they are separate programs, you can keep them both if you feel you need to - they will both run just fine.
3. The new install was painless - just click the GO button and stand back. I selected CUSTOM so that I could deselect Winamp, maybe Quicktime, and a bunch of other baggage, but you can just opt for the Typical if you prefer.
4. It still installed a bunch of AOL IM, AOL Broadband, and ICQ junk - these were not optional - and I am looking for a way to get rid of these.
5. Software writers always feel the need to tweak things just for the sake of tweaking them, which is annoying. For example, a toolbar that used to be on the left is now on the right. There are a ton of these annoyances, and no way to change them back - so you just get used to it.
6. When you are done, you will find it helpful to subscribe to the newsgroup "netscape.netscape7.windows", which is available from the news-server "secnews.netscape.com". You will have to add this newserver to your machine - easy to do. This is where all the new users (like me) are hashing out some of the questions and inconsistencies on Versions 7.02 and 7.1.

I encourage you to make the change. Your current situation is not tenable. Feel free to contact me directly if you have questions. I'm far from an expert, but if I can't answer something based on my experience, I will be glad to suggest sources of answers.

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

FYI, Netscape 7.1 is most likely the end of the line for that browser...AOL recently laid off nearly all of its remaining Netscape programmers. See http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/07/16/HNaol_1.html for the details.

Remaining bugs aren't likely to be fixed and new, improved versions are extremely unlikely. However, since Netscape 7 is based on the open source Mozilla project, you might consider switching to the Mozilla browser (http://www.mozilla.org/), or to the fairly innovative but not-always-totally-compatible Opera browser (http://www.opera.com/).

Or you could join the other 94% of web surfers and simply use Internet Explorer 6. ;D

[Sinclue]

I use Mac OS X 10.2.6 and Safari browser....no problems and fast page loads...of course.

I'm not a computer expert so I prefer the simplicity and speed of the Mac. I just do basic stuff like writing, communicating, media work. Since breaking free (mostly) of Microsoft's clutches I'm a much happier computer user. No compatability issues (install, plug and play), no crashs, no viruses, etc.

Once you go Mac, you'll never go back!

[Carol]

Hi,

Be careful if you are upgrading from Netscape 6.0 to 7.02 (I dont know if the same applies to 7.1). It lost all my email, bookmark, newsgoups and other settings. My husband had upgraded from Netscape 4.79 to 7.02 and things went smoothly. That said, Netscape does warn you that the Netscape 6.0 to 7.02 will do that. I thought saving my old stuff would protect me. Ha! It is saved, but there is no good way to read it. It appears that the problem is that it uses the same location for email/settings as Netscape6 did. The 4.79 version is a different technology base, so it moved easily.

One would think that Netscape could have made my upgrade less painful! The only reason I upgraded is that I was having big problems with eBay, and eBay was being very slow to make mods for the older versions of Netscape. Luckily, I was in between times of selling stuff, as I use my email files as an archive and my means of organizing them.

Unlike the 4.79 upgrade, I don't believe both versions can be kept intact. I may look into the 7.1 version, but I'll be more cautious.

If I didn't hate using IE so much, I wouldn't bother. I'd just use their stuff and fall in line with the masses. :P

Carol

[RockyMtnRay]

JP wrote:

I'm not a computer expert so I prefer the simplicity and speed of the Mac. I just do basic stuff like writing, communicating, media work. Since breaking free (mostly) of Microsoft's clutches I'm a much happier computer user. No compatability issues (install, plug and play), no crashs, no viruses, etc.

Once you go Mac, you'll never go back!

Well, as a developer of business software for Windows PCs, I'll have to respectfully but quite strongly disagree with you on the relative merits of the Mac vs Windows PCs. However, kinda don't think this is either the right forum (or section) for the old Mac vs PC debate. But if you want to take up the debate elsewhere, may I suggest the main forum at IHateApple.com (http://www.ihateapple.com/forums/list.asp?fid=12)...it's the other place on the web where I maintain a semi-regular presence. ;D