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Old 03-27-2010, 06:40 PM   #1
brulaz
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Default Another new Elkmont report

We picked up our Elkmont (build date: Dec 2009) last week and drove it slowly back to Ontario. The people at the Texas R.V. Center (Shaunna, Adrian, Bill) were excellent to deal with. Adrian went through the operation of everything with us and demonstrated that it all worked as advertised.

But friends of ours thought we were insane to buy a travel trailer so far from our home. In their opinion (and they own an Airstream) most trailers will have issues that only reveal themselves after some usage and travel.

They were right in our case, but there have been no "show-stoppers" so far. But then I'm happy to have another project to work on. If that doesn't describe you, I suggest you take our friend's advice and buy a trailer close to home so you have easy access to warranty repairs.

Here's our experience:

- After the first day of travel, we stopped at a county park in West Texas. Here, a slow leak developed in the plumbing when I attached city water (with the supplied pressure reducer). I traced it back to a loosened inside coupling at the outside shower fitting. It is easily accessible under the bathroom sink and tightening fixed it, permanently so far. AFAIK most of the plumbing and propane pipe fittings are accessible through outside access panels or inside cupboards. Things like this are to be expected and not a major problem IMHO.

- After second day of travel, we stopped at Hot Springs National Park, Arkansas and had no problems. The trailer tracks our pickup very well. We have a weight-distributing hitch but no sway control. I travel slowly (~60 mph) and can feel a slight nudge from large trucks and buses as they pass, but it was never a problem.

- After the third day, it started to rain and the temperature dropped. Initially there was lots of condensation on the windows, aluminum door and window frames, ceiling vents and even in wall/roof, wall/wall angles especially in the closets. We cranked up the heat both of the propane furnace and an electrical heater we had brought along and wiped and wiped. This helped, as did opening the closet doors to heat up the corners inside.

We discovered a small leak from the top of the emergency exit window. The inner aluminum frame that can be opened outward for the emergency exit has a joint on the top. I've since caulked it and the problem has gone away. The outer frame joints of all the windows are at the side and have no leakage problems.

It rained all night and we were so glad not to be in our old tent. There were no other leaks that we noticed.

- On the fourth day of travel it remained cool and rainy. We stopped for lunch and noticed that condensation from the roof vents had shaken loose and sprinkled the floor and bed. Condensation is a "fact-of-life" in cold and wet climates, especially in poorly insulated enclosures like tents and travel trailers.

- At the end of the fourth day we stopped at "Land Between the Lakes" area in Kentucky, the temperature dropped some more, close to freezing, and it really began to pour "cats and dogs".

I rushed through the outside trailer set up and mistakenly left one of the side (front) storage doors open longer than I should have (unlike the brochure photo with a single large front storage door, our Elkmont has a door on each side at the front). Rain apparently got in, and there was condensation from the thin storage doors and trailer corners. The next day we noticed that the carpet was wet in that corner of the trailer. The carpet edge extends into this storage compartment, so any water there will get into the carpet. NOT a good design decision IMHO. I plan to cut the carpet back in the storage area and caulk in a piece of Al angle against it for protection.

After a day of travel without heat, the trailer was very cold inside and condensation was even worse than the day before. At this point we decided the propane furnace was under-powered for these conditions. It heats up the bathroom very well, which is a real luxury, but the rest of the trailer needed the additional heat from our electrical heater. The propane heater appears ducted properly, although I did apply some extra Al duct tape to the vent into the living area. There is 4" flexible ducting into the battery compartment and a Y there that splits to the bathroom and living area. Air intake seems adequate, but perhaps air flow out is restricted too much by the shape of the Y and curvature in the ducting. I may play with this a bit, but more likely 20,000 BTU is just inadequate for the size of the trailer under near-freezing conditions.

Unfortunately our old electrical heater decided to stop working that night so we were forced to rely primarily on the weak propane heat. It was our coldest night. The next day we purhased a new electrical heater.

On this night we also noticed our second possible leak coming down the wall between the door and bed area window from the ceiling/wall angle. As that whole angle area was wet from condensation, we first though it might just be condensation coming down the walls. As the rain stopped early in the evening, and the trailer slowly heated up, the leak stopped and we couldn't really decide.

- Our next campsite was at a southern Ohio State Park where only electricity is available in March. So we used the pump (noisy!) and fresh, grey and black water storage. Everything worked fine.

Because the weather was good for a day, I climbed over and under the trailer to inspect the plumbing and wiring. Gas plumbing looked ok, smooth curves and kept safely away from the frame so vibration woudn't cause wear and leaks. A few of the gas line hold-downs had worked loose underneath, but sheet metal screws into the thin Al skin doesn't really strike me as too secure. I'll probably get some Liquid Nails or similar adhesive and fix them that way.

Much of the electrical throughout the trailer looked fine except for some of the brake wiring. One blue wire from the trailer to the brake was rubbing against the axle and the insulation was already partly worn through. Easy to fix, but it REALLY should have had a protective cover or been routed differently. There was also a tangle of wires hanging loosely into the cupboard under the sink because the wire hanger had come loose.

- Our final campsite was an Ohio State Park on Lake Erie, Geneva Park. I had called earlier to be sure it was open and the guy suggested I bring a snow shovel just in case. We did, and it did indeed snow, but only lightly. Before that it poured, and later it froze, down to 4-5 degrees below freezing.

With the new electrical heater condensation was less of a problem, and with all the rain, we definitely confirmed the roof leak. Climbing onto the propane tanks, I could see a slight depression in the roof where water pools near the edge where the leak is. I jacked that side of the trailer up with the scissors jacks to stop the water pooling and the leak stopped. So some new caulking was clearly needed there. The rest of the roof appeared ok with little/no pooling of water, and no leakage. I left the trailer tilted until the rain stopped early in the evening. Then the temperature fell so there was a little snow, but I could level the trailer for the night.

I was concerned about five external water drains and black/grey water drains freezing overnight, but my wife came up with the brilliant idea of wrapping them in lots of plastic bags. This worked well. The next morning we opened all the drains, emptied the grey and black tanks, poured -40C windshield washer fluid into the drains and drove home.

- The last day's drive was windy with 30-40mph gusts coming off Lake Erie. The buffeting of the trailer was noticeable but not dangerous. I adjusted the weight distributing hitch to put more weight on the truck's rear axle and that may have helped a bit. We do need to fine tune all that a bit. We may also add friction sway control bars.

- Back home I got out the ladder to look at the roof. Sure enough, the caulking has clearly pulled away in several places, and especially in the area where water was puddling. I made a quick fix with new G.E. Silicon II caulk but as the temperatures were too low, it's only temporary. When things warm up, I'm going over the whole roof and re-caulk where necessary.

I'm not sure whether they are using poor caulk, poor technique or what. The roof has lots of plastic strips covering panel joints and next to the Al edge pieces. All the caulk that separated was against the plastic strips, not the aluminum surfaces. Perhaps the plastic strips were not properly cleaned of mold release compounds? Or perhaps this is normal after a long, bouncy trip over poor concrete roads? Anyway it's a problem that I hope will go away with new caulk.
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:26 PM   #2
Wavery
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Thanks for the detailed report. I hope that you send that to TM.

Pretty well confirms the leaking issues that others have complained about. It's a good thing that you are a handy guy. I can imagine how frustrating it would be to someone that just didn't have a clue how to deal with these types of issues and indeed, people shouldn't have to deal with them.

Maybe they fired the guy that was doing the furnace installations on some of the previous assemblies. Glad that wasn't a big issue.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:56 AM   #3
brulaz
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Good advice. I'll copy all this to Trailmanor.

Here's some more, relatively minor "fit & finish" issues with the Elkmont that we discovered after leaving the dealer.

- The plywood cover over the furnace severely crimped the fresh water tank entry hose. It was a simple matter to cut a gap in the cover and free the hose.

- The small lower window in the Emergency exit was initially stuck closed. Texas RV Center got it open, but later we realized that it now doesn't completely seal when closed. The frame needs to be adjusted. I plan to take a file to it.

- Over-the-kitchen-sink window had over-tightened screws on the frame crimping the window track so the window wouldn't open completely. Loosening the screws and uncrimping the track fixed it.

- Both the over-the-kitchen-sink and emergency window inside frames were poorly installed, with bulges and large gaps between the frame and wall. In many cases it looked like screws were over-tightened causing the inside frame to distort.

- The kitchen sink rim is not flush with the counter top. There are 3 mm large gaps. An extra clamp in the middle of each side might bring it down. Also there is no caulk that I can see. Also no caulk in bathroom sink.

- The bathroom sink and counter assembly is not mounted flush right against the vertical cabinet. The gap is covered with a plastic strip around the counter and another plastic angle bit further down.

- The grey water hose connect is solidly mounted to a bracket. However the black water hose connect is only loosely mounted with metal plumber's tape.

- The battery box was secured and vented but the top wasn't attached to the bottom, the wires holding them apart. I think it's a sealed battery so maybe this is not important.


Again, no "show-stoppers", but a general sense of poor workmanship and Quality Control in certain areas. If you don't want to deal with these issues yourself, buy from a dealer close by.

Would we do this again? Definitely.

We already love the thing, especially the interior layout, the large frig/freezer and kitchen space, the bathroom design, the composite panel engineering.

And just moving up from tent camping to this thing is moving into a whole new world of luxury, like taking a hot shower in a warm bathroom on the shores of Lake Erie while it was snowing and blowing outside ...

We're planning more trips soon.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:19 AM   #4
Joseph
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Default Thank you . . .

Thank you for taking the time to share what you have found with your new trailer. Your report, unlike some others, had very good information. It was presented without emotion. Like Joe Friday used to say a long time ago, "just the facts ma'am" Most refreshing. Never having owned a "regular trailer" I wonder how other companies products fare new "out of the box" so to speak. There are used to be TM owners that even though they have other trailers now are still on this forum. Perhaps they would be in a position to compare and share their experience? Thanks again for the report. I hope that your trailer settles in so to speak and provides you with much enjoyment in the future.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:32 AM   #5
brulaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
Thank you for taking the time to share what you have found with your new trailer. Your report, unlike some others, had very good information. It was presented without emotion. Like Joe Friday used to say a long time ago, "just the facts ma'am" Most refreshing.
Thanks. Joe Friday, yes, that fits

But as harveyrv says, not everybody likes to putter around fixing their new >$20K purchase, so it could be pretty frustrating for them.

I guess the main message is give it a good work out, get it wet and stay close to the dealer unless you like to putter around. My friends with the Airstream say the same thing.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:01 PM   #6
Scott O
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Good factual report brulaz. I agree with Joseph. "Just the facts..." But it seems to me that this is way, way too much messed up stuff to be even remotely acceptable. One thing any manufacturer can't afford is to get a bad reputation.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:04 PM   #7
TrailGuy77
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I too like Brulaz have purchased a new TM with many problems from the factory,a few of mine are more serious though.You can view my original post under the "Feedback To TrailManor Section" titled "Poor Quality Control on 2010 TrailManor 3023".
I must say that I will not perform the repairs myself.I did not spend $28,000 dollars on a new TM to be fixing factory screw-ups on my own.I will give my dealer a chance to make the repairs. Purchasing a new TM with many problems caused by "factory error" is absolutely unacceptable.Unfortunately,as a direct result from poor quality control/poor dealer prep it is the consumer that suffers the "Biggest Hit."

TrailGuy77

TM:2010 3023,Electric Tongue Jack
TV:2005 Toyota Tundra Access Cab 4x4 V8-Doug Thorley Headers,Gibson 2 1/2" Exhaust,Draw-Tite Brake Controller,Eaz-Lift 1000 LB Weight Distribution Hitch
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:08 PM   #8
rumbleweed
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Great post. Lots of good constructive info. You should not have leaks from the factory, but the nature of the construction of the TM ( light weight and foldable) makes it likely that sooner or later you will need do some caulking.
I would be interested to hear if the few owners who had serious issues have heard anything from their dealers or TM in the past few weeks. If it were my company I would regularly monitor this forum and would certainly make an effort to correct some of the major issues outlined here.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:39 PM   #9
curlyontop
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Hope ALL of you folks remember to check your outside Refer vents after a steady rain.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:40 PM   #10
brulaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyontop View Post
Hope ALL of you folks remember to check your outside Refer vents after a steady rain.
I did that curly and we have no problems there. The frig installation was pretty good. I might stuff some more insulation above and below the frig though.

Does the rain come in from the roof in yours? I don't see how it could come in from the side vents. But if you had a leak in the roof like ours but right above the frig, I could see it dripping down the back into the vent areas.

Maybe your dealer should recaulk the roof in that area or apply some Eternabond.
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