Calling All Wifi Geeks

[pmhellings]

I'm looking for a way to extend my wifi range. I have read the threads on this forum and they were very informative but I don't like the idea of routing a wire from outside of the TM if there is an alternative.

I don't watch network TV, so I have no use for the crank up antenna. What I'm wondering though, if there is a way to attach the wifi antenna to that mast and use the existing coaxial cable to carry the signal to the wifi box and router.

In essence, I'm looking to use the coaxial to replace the typical USB wire. Adapting coaxial to the wifi amplifier in the coach. I saw a 4 db gain amp with an "N" output which, I believe is coaxial or can be adapted.

Any thought?

Paul

[Bill]

Paul -

I am curious about why you don't want to bring a wire inside from an outside antenna. You simply lift one of the velcro flaps, pass the connector and cable through to the inside, and close the flap over it. I can't think of anything much simpler.

As for the antenna itself, in this thread
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?p=94328
I showed how how I attached two plastic cable clamps to the side of the trailer, using existing screws. Then I clamped an 8 dB gain monopole antenna onto a piece of PVC pipe. When I want to use it, I just drop the pipe into the clamps, and pass the cable to the interior. When I take it down, the pipe, antenna, and coiled cable are stored under the mattress.

To address your question more directly, I suppose you could clamp an antenna onto the Winegard crank-up mast, and move the coax from the Winegard antenna to your new antenna. Fortunately, the Winegard coax cable is easily accessed where it screws onto the batwing. Of course, you would have to weather proof the connection to your new antenna, and make sure that the new antenna doesn't gouge the roof as you travel.

I think most wifi antennas and cables are 50 ohms. The Winegard is a 75-ohm antenna, so you would want to find a 75-ohm wifi antenna, or replace the existing 75-ohm cable (not a fun job), or simply take the mismatch loss.

At the lower end of the Winegard cable, remember that the Winegard junction box puts 12 VDC onto the coax, to power the amplifier in the batwing. Many antennas are a short at DC, so at the very least, you would need to disconnect that power supply in the junction box. And remember that the junction box contains a splitter and an electronic switch to handle the TV signals. TV and wifi are at different frequencies, so that might get sticky.

With a little care, I can't think of a reason why you can't do it, though I'm not sure where USB enters the picture.

I'm sure you've seen the discussion in the TM Technical Library at
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12478
and the discussions at
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=11539
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12135

Bill

[Bill]

By the way, I am offering one of those 8 dBi monopoles, new and unused, for sale. See

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=17965

Bill

[pmhellings]

Originally Posted by Bill

Paul -

I am curious about why you don't want to bring a wire inside from an outside antenna. You simply lift one of the velcro flaps, pass the connector and cable through to the inside, and close the flap over it. I can't think of anything much simpler.

As for the antenna itself, in this thread
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?p=94328
I showed how how I attached two plastic cable clamps to the side of the trailer, using existing screws. Then I clamped an 8 dB gain monopole antenna onto a piece of PVC pipe. When I want to use it, I just drop the pipe into the clamps, and pass the cable to the interior. When I take it down, the pipe, antenna, and coiled cable are stored under the mattress.

To address your question more directly, I suppose you could clamp an antenna onto the Winegard crank-up mast, and move the coax from the Winegard antenna to your new antenna. Fortunately, the Winegard coax cable is easily accessed where it screws onto the batwing. Of course, you would have to weather proof the connection to your new antenna, and make sure that the new antenna doesn't gouge the roof as you travel.

I think most wifi antennas and cables are 50 ohms. The Winegard is a 75-ohm antenna, so you would want to find a 75-ohm wifi antenna, or replace the existing 75-ohm cable (not a fun job), or simply take the mismatch loss.

At the lower end of the Winegard cable, remember that the Winegard junction box puts 12 VDC onto the coax, to power the amplifier in the batwing. Many antennas are a short at DC, so at the very least, you would need to disconnect that power supply in the junction box. And remember that the junction box contains a splitter and an electronic switch to handle the TV signals. TV and wifi are at different frequencies, so that might get sticky.

With a little care, I can't think of a reason why you can't do it, though I'm not sure where USB enters the picture.

I'm sure you've seen the discussion in the TM Technical Library at
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12478
and the discussions at
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=11539
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=12135

Bill

The less that needs to be set up and broken down the better. It just seems a shame to have the coaxial sitting there doing nothing. I had no idea about the different resistance of the Winegard coaxial as opposed 50 ohm. Once the signal is inside the camper via the coaxial, I'd have to interface it to the amp/ router ( which I don't have yet)

Obviously, I'm in the beginning stages of this project, which is why I'm gathering info.

Thanks again

Paul

[tentcamper]

I have never had good wifi reception anywhere we have camped. Can not even begin to think about streaming video. Maybe a KOA, but i'm thinking with all the campers using the network it might not have reliable bandwidth.

Let us know what you figure out. If you come up with a solution, I would love to use it.

[BrucePerens]

See this post http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...light=USB+wifi on installing a WiFi antenna on the Sensar TV antenna so that it raises and lowers. Image below.

If you want to go even farther, buy the Ubiquiti PowerBeam M2 400 for about $100, and install OpenWRT on it. It's a parabolic dish 2.4 GHz wifi ap with Ethernet output. Then attach it to a 24 foot fiberglass painters pole, and attach this to the lifting arm on the street side of your Trailmanor while parked. Since this uses power-over-Ethernet, you have to use an inverter or a voltage converter to run it on 12 volts. No problem when you're plugged in. I have the dish with the software installed and the pole, but haven't gotten a chance to try it yet.

You may find that you get a perfectly good RF connection, but the access point is still bogged down and doesn't give you data at any good rate. Access points also tend to have old firmware, run out of DHCP addresses to give out, and require frequent power clearing to resolve their issues.

[BrucePerens]

Originally Posted by pmhellings

I had no idea about the different resistance of the Winegard coaxial as opposed 50 ohm.

Impedance, not resistance. You can't measure it on your ohmmeter.

The vertical antenna in my photo above has a USB output, and is connected to an active USB extender because I didn't have quite enough wire. This plugs into a router running OpenWRT, which properly detects it and configured it as a third WiFi device (there is one internal device for each of 2.4 and 5 GHz).

When you get to a new RV park, you connect to OpenWRT and configre the external WiFi as the WAN device. You have to enter a new SSID and password for each RV park. But your own devices can connect to your own inside SSID and password, which stays the same.

[pmhellings]

Originally Posted by BrucePerens

Impedance, not resistance. You can't measure it on your ohmmeter.

The vertical antenna in my photo above has a USB output, and is connected to an active USB extender because I didn't have quite enough wire. This plugs into a router running OpenWRT, which properly detects it and configured it as a third WiFi device (there is one internal device for each of 2.4 and 5 GHz).

When you get to a new RV park, you connect to OpenWRT and configre the external WiFi as the WAN device. You have to enter a new SSID and password for each RV park. But your own devices can connect to your own inside SSID and password, which stays the same.

The point to this for me is if I can use the existing coaxial since it is already routed from the antenna. I can't imagine being able to pull another line through the same opening. If the impedance mismatch will make it impossible, then there is no point in using the crank up antenna.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Paul

[Bill]

I don't think you have to worry about impedance mismatch. A quick Google search reveals

"Every time a 50 and 75 Ohm Impedance mismatch occurs, about 5% of the signal is lost."

Since your outdoor antenna is going to gain much more than this, it is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

Bill

[BrucePerens]

RJ-59 has too much attenuation to be practical for WiFi frequencies. It's 13.5 dB per 100 feet at 800 MHz, and isn't specified above that. And of course that's specified for brand new cable, and the impedance mismatch could increase the loss. So you might well get 1/4 of the signal through the cable.

I just ran my wire down the street-side lift arm, and used some wiring channel for the part above the lift arm. I had already made a hole under the couch for other things, and brought it in there. Because the WiFi device was in the antenna, only data ran through the cable and I didn't have to deal with losses.