Help! Another Problem with Those Back Lights

We currently have our 1998 3023 parked in the driveway again getting it ready to take down to the bay. Yesterday, I had an RV electrician guy (68 yrs. old and been in the business a long time) come and spend about 2 1/2 hrs. trying to figure out those back lights and why they kept blowing the fuse out. He ended up having to leave to go get another person set up (I suspect also a Hurricane Ike victim) so he could spend the night in his trailer in Highlands. TX. Now, the electrician has not seen the TM(s) before but has worked on pop-ups for years. He appears to be stymied by the aluminum walls as far as trying to trace back through them to find the (supposedly short). When we bought the trailer in November, the back lights worked fine (I realize the bathroom walls have to be up and I told him all that) and when we got them home they worked fine for the first week or so. Then when we had a painter guy come in and paint the interior and my husband lowered the bath walls to allow him to paint in the corners, and put the bath back up is when the problems started. At the same time, NONE of the plugs would work (the trailer is plugged in to a 110 plug in the garage - which by the way ran the air cond. fine). Well, our son-in-law (who is brilliant!) came one day for a few minutes and showed us how to re-set the breaker for the plugs (nothing but a small lamp was ever plugged into one plug but, when we took the TM down to store it for the holidays and while we got a new roof and brought it back and set it up the breaker was tripped again.) But, that obviously has nothing to do with our current problem? I think the elec. guy is is also wondering how he's going to pull new wiring through the walls when he finds the source of the short. Right now he has the converter? box on the outside wall of bathroom near the floor, pulled out along with all the back light fixtures dropped. He's due back here today to search and work some more

Whew, I know this is a lot, but I am hoping some of you all might have some suggestions to help him along. My husband is strictly a computer person and doesn't know about anything electrical and I probably only a smidgen more. The electrician doesn't do computers, I gather, but I can print out something and give to him to try. All I see are $$$ adding up for his time! Thanks in advance.

Sue

[Wavery]

There is a switch on the top of the bottom bathroom wall. When you put the upper (back) part of the wall in place, that activates that switch so that the lights (in the back roof shell) will operate.

It is a simple job to remove that switch and check it out. If it's faulty, it is easily replaced.

If there is no current to that switch, it's a short run (maybe 20") to the converter and fuse panel. I am assuming that he checked the fuse.

If the switch is getting current, functioning properly but no current is getting to the lights, it should be easy to ID the offending wire with a multi-meter. It is fairly easy to pull a new wire if need be. However, I doubt that is the problem.

I would check the wire bundles on the outside of the camper, in the back, where the roof support hinges are. They come out of the lower shell there and enter the upper shell. That would be the most likely place for a short or broken wire as the wires are exposed and they chafe each time the roof is raised and lowered.

[Bill]

If I understand you correctly, you have two separate problems, probably not related.

The first problem is that the rear interior light circuit blows the fuse when the bathroom wall is put up and down. This suggests that something about the switch - the switch under the edge of the bathroom wall, that turns power off to the entire rear of the trailer - is not right. In my 2720 (not sure about your 3023), I can physically see the switch by peering into the rear storage compartment from outside. The switch must be firmly mounted, and should not move when the bathroom wall is put up / taken down. If it moves, one of the terminals might short out against some adjacent metal, such as a wall panel, which would blow the fuse. Reach in, grab the body of the switch, and try firmly to wiggle it around. Or, one of you watch the switch to see if it moves while the other of you puts the bathroom wall up and down a few times.

For what it is worth, the wires to the rear interior lights are pretty well protected where they run through their channels inside the trailer, so I wouldn't expect your electrician to have to pull new wires. On the other hand, the wires run to the roof as part of the bundle which is outside the TM, zip-tied to the lift arm on the left side of the trailer. This bundle flexes when the roof goes up and down, so it is possible that a short has developed inside the bundle. However, your description of the problem describes raising and lowering the bathroom wall, not raising and lowering the shells. So I'm still looking at that switch.

The second problem is that the circuit breaker for the AC outlets sometimes pops when the TM is opened up or closed down. First thing to note is that there are no outlets in either of the upper shells. All the outlets are in the lower shell (the box, if you will), so nothing is expected to flex when the shells go up and down. I'm assuming that the breaker which pops is the breaker associated with the outlets (15 amps), not the main breaker (30 amps), is that correct? Assuming it is correct, next question is whether that 15-amp breaker is a standard breaker, or a GFI breaker? If it is a GFI breaker, is it the normal (overload) part of the breaker that pops, or the GFI part?

Bill

Sue,

Not sure that I can help solve yopur problem, but can share a similar experience and my solution. My problem was in the radio circuit which kept blowing fuses intermittently (which is the worst kind of problem). After eliminating all the obvious problems the only conclusion was that there was a short in the hot wire to the radio. I traced and examined it in all the accessible places. It was literally impossible to trace it all the way without taking a chain saw to the walls. I finally ran a new wire from the converter panel to the radio and have had zero problems since. Some wiring in the TM is impossible to access for inspection.

Bill

Sue,
I am not sure if this will help, but I had the same problem about a year ago.
When I stood the bath wall up, everything worked fine for awhile, but all of the sudden it stopped. As you probably know, the back bath wall presses a button down and this allows power to the back of the TM. But in our case, the back wall was not pressing the button down far enough. I pressed the button down manually and everything started working. Some how the wall had been shifted just enough to where it would not press it down far enough. This could have something to do with the TM not being level as well. If pressing it down manually works, you have found your problem. I was able to pull the wall back towards the bed a little more and that did the trick.
you might have already tried this, if so, I have no idea. Maybe someone else will chime in here.
Anyway, hope this helps.

John

Originally Posted by harveyrv

There is a switch on the top of the bottom bathroom wall. When you put the upper (back) part of the wall in place, that activates that switch so that the lights (in the back roof shell) will operate.

It is a simple job to remove that switch and check it out. If it's faulty, it is easily replaced.

If there is no current to that switch, it's a short run (maybe 20") to the converter and fuse panel. I am assuming that he checked the fuse.

If the switch is getting current, functioning properly but no current is getting to the lights, it should be easy to ID the offending wire with a multi-meter. It is fairly easy to pull a new wire if need be. However, I doubt that is the problem.

I would check the wire bundles on the outside of the camper, in the back, where the roof support hinges are. They come out of the lower shell there and enter the upper shell. That would be the most likely place for a short or broken wire as the wires are exposed and they chafe each time the roof is raised and lowered.

Harvey, yes, we do know about the button on the bottom part of bath and did try pressing it with the top tilted but didn't make any difference. So, he may have to take it out (I just got back to house after a luncheon meeting and the elec. was supposed to show up and hasn't so far). My neighbor came over yesterday and looked at those bundles on the outside and also thought maybe that was the culprit (they are wrapped w/electrical tape) but I thought the elec. said that was the 12V coming in from the battery? Now I'm really confused. I am printing all of this out to give to him when he gets here. Thanks. Oh, and yes, the fuse kept blowing - that was the 1st thing my son-in-law checked before telling me that there must be a short somewhere in those light fixtures.

Originally Posted by harveyrv

There is a switch on the top of the bottom bathroom wall. When you put the upper (back) part of the wall in place, that activates that switch so that the lights (in the back roof shell) will operate.

It is a simple job to remove that switch and check it out. If it's faulty, it is easily replaced.

If there is no current to that switch, it's a short run (maybe 20") to the converter and fuse panel. I am assuming that he checked the fuse.

If the switch is getting current, functioning properly but no current is getting to the lights, it should be easy to ID the offending wire with a multi-meter. It is fairly easy to pull a new wire if need be. However, I doubt that is the problem.

I would check the wire bundles on the outside of the camper, in the back, where the roof support hinges are. They come out of the lower shell there and enter the upper shell. That would be the most likely place for a short or broken wire as the wires are exposed and they chafe each time the roof is raised and lowered.

Oops, I mean Carolyn or Wayne! Yes, we do know about the button on the bottom part of bath and did try pressing it with the top tilted but didn't make any difference. So, he may have to take it out (I just got back to house after a luncheon meeting and the elec. was supposed to show up and hasn't so far). My neighbor came over yesterday and looked at those bundles on the outside and also thought maybe that was the culprit (they are wrapped w/electrical tape) but I thought the elec. said that was the 12V coming in from the battery? Now I'm really confused. I am printing all of this out to give to him when he gets here. Thanks. Oh, and yes, the fuse kept blowing - that was the 1st thing my son-in-law checked before telling me that there must be a short somewhere in those light fixtures.

Originally Posted by Bill

If I understand you correctly, you have two separate problems, probably not related.

The first problem is that the rear interior light circuit blows the fuse when the bathroom wall is put up and down. This suggests that something about the switch - the switch under the edge of the bathroom wall, that turns power off to the entire rear of the trailer - is not right. In my 2720 (not sure about your 3023), I can physically see the switch by peering into the rear storage compartment from outside. The switch must be firmly mounted, and should not move when the bathroom wall is put up / taken down. If it moves, one of the terminals might short out against some adjacent metal, such as a wall panel, which would blow the fuse. Reach in, grab the body of the switch, and try firmly to wiggle it around. Or, one of you watch the switch to see if it moves while the other of you puts the bathroom wall up and down a few times.

For what it is worth, the wires to the rear interior lights are pretty well protected where they run through their channels inside the trailer, so I wouldn't expect your electrician to have to pull new wires. On the other hand, the wires run to the roof as part of the bundle which is outside the TM, zip-tied to the lift arm on the left side of the trailer. This bundle flexes when the roof goes up and down, so it is possible that a short has developed inside the bundle. However, your description of the problem describes raising and lowering the bathroom wall, not raising and lowering the shells. So I'm still looking at that switch.

The second problem is that the circuit breaker for the AC outlets sometimes pops when the TM is opened up or closed down. First thing to note is that there are no outlets in either of the upper shells. All the outlets are in the lower shell (the box, if you will), so nothing is expected to flex when the shells go up and down. I'm assuming that the breaker which pops is the breaker associated with the outlets (15 amps), not the main breaker (30 amps), is that correct? Assuming it is correct, next question is whether that 15-amp breaker is a standard breaker, or a GFI breaker? If it is a GFI breaker, is it the normal (overload) part of the breaker that pops, or the GFI part?

Bill

Bill, that's sorta correct. There are 2 separate problems with the main concern right now being all the rear interior lights not working and blowing the fuses immediately when you try to replace. And, I said that when we raised and lowered the bathroom was when this happened, but again, I'm not sure that has anything to do with that, we just happened to notice that the lights weren't working when the painter finished. And, the black button of a switch doesn't seem wobbly at all. Now as to being able to see the switch by peering into the rear storage compartment from outside - I know none of has tried that (didn't know that could be done).

Now as for the bundle problem, that is highly suspicious to me as I wrote to Wayne/Carolyn above (especially when the elec. told me what he told me and then my neighbor coming over and saying it looked like to him that was the wires that were able to flex when the top goes up and down.

As for the 2nd problem, I understand that those plugs have nothing to do with the upper shell and you ask about the breaker that pops is indeed the one associated to all of the 15 amp outlets and not the main breaker. Whether the breakers are probably all standard breakers and not GFI - I don't know if I could tell the difference myself? I know the elec. commented that the outlet plugs were not GFI (guess ithey would have those little red re-set button on them if they were - right?)

Originally Posted by bfezel

Sue,

Not sure that I can help solve yopur problem, but can share a similar experience and my solution. My problem was in the radio circuit which kept blowing fuses intermittently (which is the worst kind of problem). After eliminating all the obvious problems the only conclusion was that there was a short in the hot wire to the radio. I traced and examined it in all the accessible places. It was literally impossible to trace it all the way without taking a chain saw to the walls. I finally ran a new wire from the converter panel to the radio and have had zero problems since. Some wiring in the TM is impossible to access for inspection.

Bill

Another Bill! Thanks. Don't think it would be the radio wire because we hadn't turned the radio on when both of these things happened. Since then I have played the radio and also a tape and nothing happened (it must run to those plugs? and I just didn't try to turn it on when the breaker was tripped). But, I guess that's what the elec. meant when he almost said the same thing about it being impossible to trace it all the way without taking a chain saw to the walls! I think he's used to working on regular rvs with paneling on the walls (he mentioned that several times that he would just be able to pop or cut into the paneling to fix electrical problems. Geez this is getting difficult!

John, no, we tried that first thing so that couldn't be the problem but thanks anyway. Now-------if I can just get this electrician back here -------I think maybe I scared him off