Another new Elkmont report

[cochise]

BRULAZ..here is why your furnace worked so poorly.

Suburban in their installation manual, copy of which I have if you are interested, requires a minimum of 55 sq in return air. And since you probably only have two air inlets, one into the bathroom and one on the short leg of your seat by the battery box, they are only 4 in which gives an open area of 25 sq in optimally, in the case of the elkmont with the grille probably only about 23 sq in, there simply is not enough area to expel the heated air into the living area. I had the exact same problem, only when we contacted TM they washed their hands of the whole thing. I than contacted SUBURBAN and they are now handling it. They have told me that they want it fixed and will do it at their expense and than go to TM. (See the enclosed doc).

I also paid 20K+ cash for my Elkmont and I damn well want it to function the way it should.

I would use the plywood not knee pads as you really need to distribute your weight which knee pads will not do well. Use a 2 or 3 foot square piece of 3/8 ply and glue carpet to the bottom side. This is especially important if you are putting weight on the roof near a seam.

Originally Posted by cochise

Suburban in their installation manual, copy of which I have if you are interested, requires a minimum of 55 sq in return air. And since you probably only have two air inlets, one into the bathroom and one on the short leg of your seat by the battery box, they are only 4 in which gives an open area of 25 sq in optimally, in the case of the elkmont with the grille probably only about 23 sq in, there simply is not enough area to expel the heated air into the living area.

Thanks, cochise, I have the manual but haven't had the chance to go through it yet.

As far as I can tell, the single heat output opening right at the furnace side has only a 4" diameter or 12.6 sq in. Only after that does it fork into the two 4" pipes.

So really, the heat output opening is restricted to 12.6 sq in.

And you are saying that opening should be 55 sq in? And Trailmanor has reduced it down to only 23% of what it should be? Sheesh.

I have seen a picture of an Elkmont where the furnace is vented directly into the living area through a much larger rectangular vent at the rear of the furnace. That vent could easily have been 55 sq in. Not sure if that installation had a vent to the bathroom though.

This on my list of things to look at more closely, so thanks for the heads up.

[cochise]

Originally Posted by brulaz

Thanks, cochise, I have the manual but haven't had the chance to go through it yet.

As far as I can tell, the single heat output opening right at the furnace side has only a 4" diameter or 12.6 sq in. Only after that does it fork into the two 4" pipes.

So really, the heat output opening is restricted to 12.6 sq in.

And you are saying that opening should be 55 sq in? And Trailmanor has reduced it down to only 23% of what it should be? Sheesh.

I have seen a picture of an Elkmont where the furnace is vented directly into the living area through a much larger rectangular vent at the rear of the furnace. That vent could easily have been 55 sq in. Not sure if that installation had a vent to the bathroom though.

This on my list of things to look at more closely, so thanks for the heads up.

Ok.. The furnace has a 4" opening on either side of the front of the furnace, (which is right behind the long "L" of the couch. There is a dividing luan wall between the furnace and the water tank. To obtain more heat in mine, a dealer in Tucson turned the tank so it is parallel to the outside wall and installed a duct to the front of the trailer, hence to 23-25" opening. The manufacturer stipulates that: "The minimum return air to the furnace must total 55 square inches free area". And that is something that TM has NOT done. My trailer will be worked on tomorrow by a an AUTHORIZED tech, picked by SUBURBAN manufacturer to correct the hazardous installation by TM. They had not even screwed the furnace to the floor nor did they comply with the clearance requirement to combustible material. There is a second 20K BTU model that has a front grille thru which heat is expelled into the trailer. That model number is NT-20SE, but it also has the cabability to heat the bathroom thru a 4" duct. The model you and I have you CANNOT maintain yourself, i.e. clean inside, without removing the whole furnace from the trailer, and good luck with that.
Picture 810 shows before adding the missing air ducts, and 1627 shows after the water tank was turned to allow a duct to the front of the trailer. Still not enough area by far, but helping. Tomorrow it should be corrected.

Re: roof leaks, my brother has a standard travel trailer (02 26' Starcraft), and has also reported roof leaks. Like brulaz tried in the first post, his solution is to raise the front of the camper some when rainy conditions are forecast for better drainage, so we have started doing this as well. From what I've seen of other camper discussions on rv.net, dealing with roof leaks is to some extent just a 'camper thing', unfortunately.

This is just to address the specific issue reported from the brulaz' last camping night with water pooling on the roof.

Originally Posted by allenj

From what I've seen of other camper discussions on rv.net, dealing with roof leaks is to some extent just a 'camper thing', unfortunately.

This has been my impression too. The main leak we had only started for sure on the third rainy night after >2000km of travel over some pretty rough concrete and freezing weather.

On our initial inspection of the trailer, there was no sign of leakage or water stains, although the roof showed clear signs of rain having puddled and dried up. AFAIK the trailer was sitting outside, exposed to the weather, from Dec 2009 to when we picked it up in Mar 2010.

Nonetheless, there has to be a better way. In addition to re-caulking the roof, I'm looking into the Eternabond products, especially for the sides where the roof meets the walls. As the roof is slightly lifted down the centre line, water runs off until it reaches a slight ridge at the sides. I'm thinking a strip of Eternabond down the length of the trailer on both sides might fix a host of future problems?

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by allenj

Re: roof leaks

From what I've seen of other camper discussions on rv.net, dealing with roof leaks is to some extent just a 'camper thing', unfortunately.

I disagree.......I think that it is a "poor standard of construction in the RV industry" thing.

Our TM 2720 is is 12-years old and has "ZERO" roof leaks. It has been my experience that the "leak problem" tends to occur to original owners and they work through getting them resolved (in most cases).

I have always bought campers that are at least 2-years-old for this very reason. My brother bought a new camper and fought leaks for the 1st year and hasn't had a leak since (6 years). My daughter bought a 3-year-old camper (32') and has had no leaks for the 3 years they've had it.

I feel that TT manufacturers have come to "accept" a certain amount of roof leaks because most owners will fix it themselves rather than hassle taking it back. IMHO..... this is not right but it is what it is and "fighting it" isn't going to give an RV owner a better experience.

If you buy a new RV, you should know how to do as Bruaz has done in order to have a more positive ownership experience IMHO.......is it right...."HELL NO".....do you want to cause yourself a lot of misery by "teaching the manufacturer a lesson"......probably not. It's not going to "Teach" them anything. They already know the score.

If you are incapable of doing your own repairs (as many are) a new camper may not be the best way to go. Logic would tell you the opposite but reality is often somewhat different than logic.

Our friends with the Airstream told us basically the same thing as harveyrv, except their solution was to choose a dealer you can trust to put things right.

It is encouraging to hear that these issues, the roof leaks especially, can be fixed one way or another.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by brulaz

Our friends with the Airstream told us basically the same thing as harveyrv, except their solution was to choose a dealer you can trust to put things right.

It is encouraging to hear that these issues, the roof leaks especially, can be fixed one way or another.

The real dichotomy here is that most people that buy "New" do so to avoid "buying someone else's problems". The cold hard facts are that buying a well cared for 2-4 year old camper will often be more like "Buying someone else's solutions" to new construction problems....... sad.....but true.

Had a chance to go over the roof today in the warm weather. Pulled out about 30ft of original caulk that had separated from the plastic strips (but was still tight on the aluminum), and replaced it with GE Silicon II caulk. The stuff I had done earlier (heating with a hair dryer) still looks tight, so hopefully that's the end of our leaks for now.