Air Conditioner startup capacitor?

[Craigrrr]

Originally Posted by Brittany Dogs

Is there a display that shows the error codes inside this unit?

Yes, it is led lights d21, d22, d23 depending what lights up will determine the fault. I had d21 and d22 then I had d22 and d23 when it would get hot outside like in the 90's which is when you want AC.

[Padgett]

There is an existing junction under the street side where the AC cable changes from solid wire to flexible. I put the box there.

ps ECO mode just uses a lower idle setting for low load. Without a soft start it is a question of whether the engine can rev up fast enough to take up the load. Strange but true a short stroke engine can rev faster than a long stroke, this is why my long stroke 2500/2200W Predator had trouble starting the AC where the 2200/1800W short stroke Westy was more reliable. Once I added the soft-start, all had no problem including those that had ECO mode.

[Craigrrr]

Originally Posted by Padgett

There is an existing junction under the street side where the AC cable changes from solid wire to flexible. I put the box there.

ps ECO mode just uses a lower idle setting for low load. Without a soft start it is a question of whether the engine can rev up fast enough to take up the load. Strange but true a short stroke engine can rev faster than a long stroke, this is why my long stroke 2500/2200W Predator had trouble starting the AC where the 2200/1800W short stroke Westy was more reliable. Once I added the soft-start, all had no problem including those that had ECO mode.

I went back to your shootout, and then realized that is where you mounted that box. Yeah the micro air did great when temps were in the 80's but I am so acclimated to heat that 80's are doable. It is the 90's and 105's that are hot to me, so the micro air just did not work, Roger is thinking my AC compressor is going, but I get 17.8 amp draw when using the micro air and he said that was what theirs pull. So he agreed it would not work for me, now I just hope they don't charge me the 25% restocking fee, cause that will make me boil. lol

[Padgett]

Never had a problem with starting even with a 2KW class gen.

[Craigrrr]

Here is the latest update on the micro air unit that would not work with my Honda EU2000i generator, email from Roger @micro air

"Hello Craig,

The fault log shows a mixture of power interrupted and stall conditions. This suggests the generator was not coming out of ECO mode fast enough when the start occurred. I can’t speculate why this happens with your unit and not with others unless maybe the inverter controller is a little slow. Bench testing the unit worked flawlessly. The learning starts you did show every measurement exactly where I would expect.

I will have Russ credit back your account. I am not seeing anything I can do here that would improve your results.

Best regards,
Roger



Microair.net
(609) 259-2636
FAX: (609) 259-6601
Micro-Air Corp.

[Brittany Dogs]

I wonder if the Honda i2000 you have might be out of tune. Too bad you didn’t have access to someone else’s Honda i2000 to see if that one worked better. The problem I had on hot days with the trailer in a high solar load condition (no shade) was the Honda i2000 would start the AC just dandy and actually run for 8-10 minutes before the rpm’s started to climb up a bit and the generator wa getting hot and working harder and harder and then all of a sudden, the voltage would drop from 118 to about 105 in a span of maybe 20 seconds, whereas the Micro Air would sense a brownout and drop off the compressor. The AC would then only be on fan mode for a good 15-20 minutes despite the temperature climbing inside the trailer. The Micro Air would then do some sort of reset and try it again only to see the same thing happen.

In hotter conditions, if I use my Honda 3000 Handi, all my problems went away.

[Craigrrr]

My Honda only has roughly 80 hours probably less and runs great no misses first pull starts etc.. The easy start worked great in the 80's but after 92*-94* it did what you explained yours does. Problem is, I don't need ac when it is in the 80's lol I would have liked to try another honda just to see, but just as yours does it reved higher in the heat and I think that was working a 2k generator too hard , so I think I am glad I learned that anyway. I am going to go with the predator 3500 inverter genset I think and have power to "burn" if needed.

[Brittany Dogs]

Craig, the higher output generator will do the trick just fine I bet. My theory with the i2000 generators is that on hot days all the “margin” goes away on the Honda. That generator is capable of producing 1600 continuous watts. The spec says it can only do higher outputs of say 2000 watts max for a period of 20 minutes.

But look what is working against us. The power cord, despite it being 10AWG, is sitting in the sun and when the compressor is on, higher current is flowing. As the copper temperature rises, so does the cable resistance. As resistance rises, the voltage drops causing current to rise. As current rises, the cable gets even hotter, the generator needs to run harder since current is rising, as the generator itself is getting hotter and hotter, it also runs into other derating factors.

It’s a run-away condition over 15-20 minutes before the Micro Air says “enough is enough”. The problem first came out when I was camping at like 1200’ elevation which derates the generator by another 3% or so (unless you make carberator adjustments). The next time it was happening was with a very high solar load and 90 degree or so temperatures.

I was telling Bill how I experimented with putting the generator on a shorter cable which seemed to cause the brown-out condition a few minutes longer. Then I tried putting a one foot pig tail type cable from the generator to the trailer, putting the Honda on a small table to allow such a short cable.

Guess what? The Honda i2000 stayed within the margin and ran the AC just fine. The generator was also in the shade of the trailer too. My conclusion was that depending on the environmental conditions, the Honda i2000 runs very close to designed margins on my Penguin AC unit outfitted with the Micro Air.

I don’t like warm weather with high humidity so even when it is 80 degrees, I’ll be tempted to run AC. Under some conditions of lower altitude, shady campsite and moderate temperatures, I’ll take my Honda i2000. Many other times, I’ll use my Honda Handi 3000.

And looked what recently happened? Honda came out with the new i2200. That extra 200 Watts is perhaps the added margin I needed to run the AC in hotter, higher solar load conditions. Maybe, maybe not. Not sure. But I do love my Handi unit. For a few years I ran two ganged i2000 units but didn’t like the added engine noise, gas consumption and the room two Honda’s took up in the truck.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Brittany Dogs

But look what is working against us. The power cord, despite it being 10AWG, is sitting in the sun and when the compressor is on, higher current is flowing. As the copper temperature rises, so does the cable resistance. As resistance rises, the voltage drops causing current to rise. As current rises, the cable gets even hotter....

I was telling Bill how I experimented with putting the generator on a shorter cable which seemed to cause the brown-out condition a few minutes longer. Then I tried putting a one foot pig tail type cable from the generator to the trailer, putting the Honda on a small table to allow such a short cable.

Guess what? The Honda i2000 stayed within the margin and ran the AC just fine. The generator was also in the shade of the trailer too. My conclusion was that depending on the environmental conditions, the Honda i2000 runs very close to designed margins on my Penguin AC unit outfitted with the Micro Air.

I have a couple of questions WRT your tests. (Basically, I don't understand your wiring connections.) Did the "one foot pigtail" connect into the (long but sun-protected) TM 30A power cord; or directly into the AC distribution center of the Power Converter; or Direct to the AC connector terminals on the roof?
- - - - -
2000 watts, at 110V, would only be 18A. The round-trip Voltage drop on #10 cable, length 40 feet (20 feet of TM power cord, plus 20 feet of your own cable) would be barely 1.3% (standard conditions). That amount of lost power wouldn't raise the temperature very much - you're only dissipating the heat of a 25W light bulb, over a length of 40 feet.

Conclusion #1: If your cord got much hotter when running AC off the generator (in comparison to lying in sunlight with no power load), then your cable is badly damaged *or* they lied when they sold it to you. If it's not damaged, then it can't be #10 AWG copper. Maybe it's #10 aluminum, or maybe it's #14 -- but they lied.

Conclusion #2: If the cord did not get noticeably hotter while running, but the overall situation was VASTLY improved with the short jumper - then there's probably not an issue within the body of the cable - the problem lies in loose or damaged end connectors when using it.
- - - - -
BTW, the internal AC wiring of my TM (2006) was all done in yellow-sleeved #12 Romex-type solid wire. A TM like mine, running AC at a "plugged in" RV park, has most of the AC Voltage drop within that segment of #12 Romex. The bigger 30A cord between the RV Park connector and the Load Center doesn't become a significant factor, unless you have concurrent loading from other appliances, or from the Power Converter trying to charge batteries at the same time.

[Brittany Dogs]

I took the factory black 10AWG cable off and installed the Marinco Park connector near the rear bumper. The cable length from the park connector to the power center is perhaps 15” or so. I then added the booted female connector to the clipped end of the black 10AWG cable that was removed from the hardwired configuration.

In addition, I bought a Rigid brand 10AWG extension cord, 100’ long and giving me about 14” from both ends, I snipped off both the male and female ends. At this point, I have basically a 98’ bulk power cable. I then divided up the 98’ into basically a 69’ and a 29’ long sections. I put the Camco 30A RV type connectors on both sections acting as multiple extension cords to fit most any configuration I might run into. I would not attempt or intend to use all cables at once such as the black 25’, plus the 29’ and 69’ sections. By the way I round up calling the extensions my 30 footer and 70 footer.

The “pig tail” I refer to is using the male clipped 10AWG section with the Nema 30A, 125v twist lock-in the other end. It is used to power up the trailer when collapsed in my garage. I use it to power up the fridge a day ahead of heading out.

With the situation of the higher altitude and the first time the MicroAir would kick out the compressor, I was on the 70’ extension and the edmain black cord. Basically 95’ of length. It work fine in most cases. By the way, most charts used in reference to current capacity and voltage drop are often referring to solid copper. Obviously my extensions are all stranded copper cable which has a higher current capacity with length than does solid copper.

The 95’ length under the particular conditions of a particular camp out made the MicroAir error out after about 15 minutes and with the i2000 gen ramping up to max for the last minute or two. I witnessed the voltage meter I have going from expected voltage of about 117v to something like 105v where the MicroAir knocked out the compressor. Removing the 70’ extension and going to the 25’ black only cable, the next cycle was more like knocking off at 20 minutes.

So then I took the black cable out of the picture and used the pig tail so that from generator to power center, the total length was like 2.25’. This rant he AC unit fine but was not practical. It did however provide clues.

Then came another camping trip where the altitude was lower but the solar load on the the camper and well, everything really, the cables, the generator, was higher (or hotter). I was only on the 30’ plus the 25’ cables. Generator was running for maybe 40 minutes (from a cold start) then the MicroAir kicked the compressor out. I let the generator idle and after 15or so minutes turned the AC on and 20 minutes later it konked out. The voltage from the generator just prior to the MicroAir error showed a wavering needle jump going down to about 105V before the error.

Taking the 30’ extension away allowed a longer time (like 5 minutes) before it would error out again. That’s when I concluded that this whole system on the MicroAir and the Honda i2000 is just too close to max with so little margin left.

Keep in mind, when the Honda is under a compressor demand, it works hard and builds up its own heat. As it does that the voltage tends to come down a volt, then two volts. Current goes up and the gen works harder than hard.

Using the 3000 watt Handi allows me to run the 70’ plus the 25’ cords, if need be, which is rare, and does so just fine, even in hotter conditions.